ScaredSilly

Sunny, mid 70s, light wind and ... Oh wait that was for Malibu.

It is in wyoming - where men are men, so are the women, the sheep are nervous, and the antelope run wild. Oh yeah, if you see a wolf shoot it. PS I would take the above description of going into the Cirque with a grain of salt. The approach is pretty casual until Jack Ass Pass then it is just up and over.

Here is a photo of Mont Blanc du Tacul http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/117842.JPG If you look carefully in the shadow to the right of the triangular face you can see people on the slope. There are several parties on the route which takes a sweeping right turn towards the skyline. Notice all of the avalanche debris at the base? Oh yeah - notice the snow walls in fore ground built by dirt bag Brits too cheap to stay in the huts . As for the acceptance of death in the mountains. I am not so sure it is acceptance but more that there are way more people in the alps than in the mountains of North America. The Alps are huge and very accessible by many many people. So I would expect that there are more deaths but on a per visit basis it is probably very similar to that in North America

Very nice, you should let some know about these in one of the Geology Dept. as I am sure some would be interested in them.

While my partner and I now climb with a 70m rope and it is becoming more popular to use 70m ropes setting raps for this length is not a good idea. Given your first hand experience I would that you would contact the hut warden know.

Both alive: http://www.kirotv.com/news/17257621/detail.html

As some have said 50 Crowded Climbs can be a blessing or a bane. But either way it is a classic in that it gives people a pointer to at least one climb in particular area. I have done 20+ of the routes, a few friends are well into the 30+ routes. Of those on the list my highlights both came in 2000 when that spring I did Castleton with Allen Steck who was 79 at the time and then two months later did the Cassin. My most recent was Slesse. All good fun.

On 19 July 1939 Wiessner and Pasang Sawa Lama had a breakfast of hot tea in camp IX Wiessner felt strong enough to the summit before dark and with a day's food he Pasang set off. They reached the summit-bulwark at the top of the snow basin, from where it was some 575 meters to the summit dome. Coming to a rock-band they found themselves faced with two possibilities. They could either go to the right, where the route led under a dangerous looking balcony of ice, posed ready to break off above their heads, or go to the left, where there seemed to be a gully in a precipitously steep wall of broken black rock. Wiessner who always felt safer on rock opted for the left hand choice even though technically appeared more difficult. The day was surprisingly windless Wiessner was even able to climb without his mittens making full use of the sense of balance he had developed on the Elbe sandstone. At 18:00 hours Wiessner reached what he later reported to be 8382 meters. Only 15 meters would have brought him access to the summit ridge, which he did not expect to present any serious climbing difficulties. They later down climbed the gully ...

As of last week it was still big, bold, and moving. I would not get anywhere near it as it is regularly calving chunks off. We came in from the basin and went up the toe of the buttress. It involved an easy scramble and a quick traverse of a snow field. We found a nice place to hop onto the rock where the snow field was not too under cut. This is original start and does have some exposure to falling ice. But less so than the Pocket/Bypass Glacier. We bivied above that after doing a couple of vegi pitches as well as some 11a climbing with sparse protection followed by a bunch of slabs. There was a snow patch to the right of the buttress for water. See attached markup of Marc's photo of our approximate route. At the time the weather was blue bird and the route very dry. Found a fair amount of bail gear but Marc your rack was not seen. The route was nice but many stacked blocks on the upper pitches that are less than trust worthy. Heard a guy took a 60 footer which cut well into his rope when a hold broke earlier this year. The descent was long. Especially, because the road is gated at the highway which adds to the hike out. We left the bivy around 6am and got to highway around 10pm. We bivied along the road and walked back to the campground where we got a ride up to our vehicle. BTW does anyone know why the Slesse Creek Road is locked? We meet someone with a key as we first arrived that was going in.

Like others have said the decision of a helmet is probably moot. As for the descent route I will not question their decision as I have no idea of the current conditions. However and although it has been 15 years since I did this it is certainly possible to climb a route from Cloud Cap, descend the south side, and return to Cloud Cap without doing a shuttle or awful hike. Simply descend the south side until it possible to traverse below the Steel Cliffs and cross the Newton-Clark. Again though this is condition dependent. When I did this traverse, I climbed Cooper's Spur in mid October. Excellent conditions with hard ice and snow from top to bottom. The Newton - Clark was bare ice. Either way sad to see such an accident.

"You going up?" "Yes! Yes!" "You may be going a lot higher than you think." Don Whillans talking to some Japanese climbers on the Eiger

Thanks for the thoughts, appreciate hearing your thinking. The funny part about the TRs from the past week over on Gator's blog is that several said they had up to 60 degree ice. It was at best 45 degree ice. Given that I have to doubt the accuracy of many of the past TRs. You could certainly find 60 degree ice if you wanted but that is another matter. I am sure that at times two tools would be useful but when multiple people carry multiple tools for 100 feet out of 3000 feet of climbing plus the fact that they are too short for the most of the route it seems to be really inefficient. My partner and I discussed that if the ice was too steep for a single axe we would just use the others axe, pitch it out, and then send both tools back down for the other to use. I am reading the same TRs and guide books (albeit not all) but interpret some thing different. I guess I think about folks like Joe Hazard and what they were doing when guiding folks. These guys were honed and though had heavy gear they could move pretty fast. I just do not see them guiding folks through super steep terrain even for short distances. I have no doubt that they would have chopped a bunch of steps though had they found the current conditions. Speaking of ole Hazard. They camped up at the top and then walked down and around. None of this rappelling monkey business with clients. Back then the camp was probably safer, even friends in the 70s/80s camped up there. Today, I sure as hell would not given the overall warming conditions and I know they would not.

Here is my pass: http://www.freeourforests.org/COEpic.html

BTW - a question to ponder and this is not to question people's abilities but why do so many feel the need to take two tools on the Kautz? The ice step is not that steep or so difficult to really require it. I think it is over kill and then you end up carrying the damn things for rest of the route. My partner and I did it with a single 60cm axe along with a ski pole. We tucked the pole for the ice step and just used our hand for balance. Yeah we are a couple of old farts that have been around the hill a few times so we feel comfortable on most terrain but it would seem to me folks could use some practice climbing with single tool. It will certainly make you more competent and confident. Then when you get to sections like this you can just blow through them rather than bumble around.

The thread title is wrong as they died on Mt Dolent. While technically part of the Mt. Blanc Massif is a not exactly close by Mt. Blanc itself. This is akin to saying some died on the Grand Teton when they were on Mt. Moran. Yeah Moran is part of the Teton Massif but ... The accident is truly horrific in that the mom/wife watched it happen. Very sad. And yes many people die in the alps each year. Trivia - Mt Dolent is a unique Peak in that it lies on the border of France, Italy, and Swirzerland. There is a very ice climb on it from the French side that we did one spring that is something like 12 pitches. Here is a photo of it (look for the little sliver to the right of the summit and the "horizontal" ridge leading to it.

After coming down it after doing Kautz a week ago I can not say the route is in good shape. Sun cupped to hell with a 12" boot deep and 12" wide track (aka cattle trail) through it. What does this mean? Passing people will suck so things will get backed up, especially at any of the crevasses. One crevasse crossing was sketchy and is probably the one with a ladder on it now. I would choose another route - either Emmons or Kautz.

Sorry I should of added a smiley, that was a joke ... but also serious as people do stupid shit. Like the party who walked up the debris field late in the afternoon a few days latter.

This is why Camp Hazard is named well Camp Hazard. No one smart bivies there. The spots below near the rappel are good spots - though they are now dry. However, water can be found to the west. When I get a chance I will post a report on our trip. But a few morsels, conditions on the Nisqually are excellent, as are conditions walking up to the Turtle. Getting on to Kautz is not a problem the lower ice tongue is ice but is very stair stepped, cracks are open but not a problem. The intermediate snow field has lots sun cups. The upper ice step (aka what people misname the ice chute - there is no chutte) is hard glacier ice for 70 feet. It is 45 degrees max and there is no need for a second tool. (Unless you like to carry short tools for hardly anything). The trick is to use the remnants of the sun cups for one hand and foot. The upper snow field is sun cupped not the most fun. A few cracks here and there. Instead of crossing the top of the cleaver we cut left and headed up towards Point Success. An axe and ski pole are the way to go. We descended the DC - what a mess that route is (condition wise). Yuck. The Kautz is a gem.

I was on the Willis one winter. Fell into more damn crevasses on the Carbon than on any previous trip on the hill. Got to the point my partner started laughing about - that is until we both went in at the same time, albeit different cracks. Fortunately, we never went in deeper than our butts. Best approach is from Carbon River, ride a bike to the end of the road and walk in from there. As for conditions it all depends. We went in on a dry year and great conditions - just really high winds up high. Could be nasty if lots of unconsolidated snow. Same for avalanche conditions. Ice??? If you want alpine ice I would pick another time of year or route.

I have spent a few days in the backcountry of Yellowstone and dealt with -50F temps.

Ptarmigan gets a few attempts compared to many of the other routes. We did it in May one year. Had great conditions. In fact, in three trips to that side of the hill (via Spray Park from Carbon River) it has always been pleasant walking to a high camp. The problem this year is the huge amount of snow low down is just not consolidating very well. And up high there does not seem to be the cover. So later in the year the route will be out.

Nice shots - I always say that i am going to take some time after a climb and see other parts of the park. In 5 seasons in the range I have yet to do it.

Sadly, I have several friends on that board all of whom are buried on Denali or over on the Ruth. However I have not visited it - not sure I want to. In Zermatt there is a climbers section of the local cemetery that is very sobering especially if you read some of the epitaphs.

Last time I was on the south I took a friend up via the DC. We spent a night at Muir then walked to the Flats the next day and spent the night. Really helped him with acclimating and made for a "shorter" summit day. The nice part about doing the flats is that the activity level is not quite as much as with starting from Muir. So you can get up at 3am and still beat the guides. Of course you have to schlep your stuff up and back.

Another article on the events. One of the better written articles about a rescue. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-hikers12-2008jun12,0,5906441.story