ClimbingPanther

summitchaser, somehow you managed to post thrice thrice while being the only one to not contribute to this person's question, and nothing even witty and cute. it's OK to not spray on every thread. OP: Backbone or Serendipity on Dragontail. So what's your opinion on which is the more fun route? summitchaser, attempt to form rational and/or helpful response, take 1: Call me a noob but I've never heard of Serendipity but I am going to do Backbone. Perhaps a microcosm of the local mindset? take 2: Ohhhhhhh....I have done SERPENTINE ARETE! take 3: NP- summiting dragontail was awesome! Worth it!

and then there's always sticking your finger in a dike. on a serious note, I highly recommend getting a bike and just riding aimlessly around the city. I can't recall a more beautiful European big city with the canals, trees, townhouses, parks, and even a little lake here and there. My favorite memory was just getting outside and seeing it.

just like on the internets, people love to think they're experts and have progressive opinions. chicken soup for the ego.

this is beside the point but it's a spray topic, regardless of where it was posted.

more specifically, the problem is decreased fluidity of bronchial secretions, and since climbing involves heavy breathing at high altitude and cold temperature (read: drying out bronchial secretions), I would expect the symptoms to be particularly bad on the mountain. cold, dry air is also a bronchospasm trigger. my recommendation would be to start small, expect exacerbations, and be prepared for them. try a small peak this summer and ask for prescriptions to all potentially useful medications (bronchodilators, mucus thinners, etc).

dang, 2 minutes too slow. just came here to post the same thing. quality journalism.

it'll be gone soon enough

ENOUGH with the amazing climbing & TR's, people. Don't you know I have tests next week? Sweet climb & pics!

This grandpa joe brings you the socialist national anthem Come with me and you'll be In a world of pure imagination Take a look and you'll see Into your imagination We'll begin with a spin Trav'ling in the world of my creation What we'll see will defy Explanation {Refrain} If you want to view paradise Simply look around and view it Anything you want to, do it Want to change the world, there's nothing to it There is no life I know To compare with pure imagination Living there, you'll be free If you truly wish to be {Refrain} There is no life I know To compare with pure imagination Living there, you'll be free If you truly wish to be

shoot, the photography on trip reports makes me desperate to get back to the NW as soon as possible! keep em coming

The problem is that's how Americans operate. The national debt is a much more immediate and relevant issue for Americans, and the outcry against it and the politicians who perpetuate it is inaudible. As long as the choice is between doing the right thing and doing what's best for me right now, most people will take the latter. It's hard to blame the politicians for not being any different from their constituents. What's best for them right now is to get re-elected by doing what's best for the constituents right now. Until America becomes less self-centered and now-centered, this is our reality. Our fight is not really against climate change or the national debt, it needs to be against selfishness and complacency. It's hard to teach old dogs new tricks, so raise your kids to choose what's right instead of what's easy, challenge others to do likewise, and one day we may get something done.

Monty, while I respect the work your organization does, the above statement in regards to the accident on Mt. Hood in December is utter BS. I realize my statement is harsh and I know I was not there when Mr Gullberg was found. But how can you or PMR make such a statement? His companions were not found and to my knowledge there was zero trace of them. As such, they could have has all the survival gear in the world from a stove, to sleeping, to a PLB. None which would have done them a damn bit good if they were laying unconscious in the bowels of crevasse. More than one climber has died from exposure not because they lacked the resources but because they could not functionally use them. With no disrespect to Mr Gullberg but from what information I gathered his gear was spread out over the mountain after the accident. Rather hard to retrieve it when you are injured. ( i have dealt with such a partner after a serac avalanche that swept him into a crevasse and almost led to him to being buried alive). Ringy - dingy is the term I want to say. Now I noticed in your second post which is similar you do not make the above statement. If PMR is to have any credibility with in first the climbing community and the lay public PLEASE, PLEASE think very carefully about your statements in the public. I was not impressed in the least bit with the PMR statement and reasoning regarding locator beacons last month. I really want to see organizations such PMR be on front lines and give my support but at the present time I am just not reading statements that allow me to give such support. The stakes are very high for climbers in the PNW right now. Sincerely, Allen Sanderson It's a good point, Allen, that nobody knows what really would have helped them in reality, but I think Monty was just pointing out that bringing a few key pieces of survival gear is more useful than bringing a piece of electronic equipment. It won't keep you warm, sheltered, fed, hydrated, etc, and therefore shouldn't be any more mandatory than the things that actually would keep you alive in a large percentage of situations. This is a discussion on legislation and we're talking about various things that reduce your risk of death after an accident in general, not about specifics of their situation, and his wording actually reflects that (their stated lack of gear "endangered" them [risk], not "was responsible for their deaths" [direct causality]). Semantics be hanged, I really appreciate PMR's thoughtful approach to involvement with this issue on every level. I moved away from the PNW temporarily but I'll be back and I'm glad to know people are working hard to preserve common sense in the laws that particularly affect me. Prost!

I second Mtguide's gorgeous exposition on orthopedics, and especially his advice for seeking resolution. You just don't mess around with your joints. The amount of permanent damage and loss of time for climbing that can be caused by aggravating an injury is NOT worth the very temporary gains of pushing through the pain. What you seem to be describing does not sound severe enough to warrant a doctor's visit, depending on what you mean by "mild pain" and "itching," especially since you're not taking any medication for it. You're likely to be told to try an NSAID first, along with cessation of the aggravating activity. Athletes go back to work way too soon because they "feel better" and can't stand to be away from the action. Don't let yourself be tempted by this line of thinking. Whatever is going on in your tendon was enough to cause you to seek advice, so it is enough to warrant cessation of your routine for the time being. Knowing how long tendon and bone healing process take, a month would be wise. I stopped exercising for several weeks after the Wonderland last summer due to knee pain, and my wife took several months before she could run without any pain. It is always worth the time to heal properly. And remember, we are all different, so don't compare yourself with what other people can do without joint pain. Your body has communicated that you're over-doing it, so don't fight it.

This is part of a broader issue of legislative principles. Principle means having a world-view and a theory of government that informs your decisions on legislation. What we see here is a bunch of people signing on to something that doesn't jive with the current state of law & order in WA. PRINCIPLE: MONEY If anybody wants to talk about money, please turn your attention to the 10394 other choices people make that cost WAY more money to the government. PRINCIPLE: SELF-DETERMINATION If anybody wants to talk about individual choices that have no bearing on anybody else, please turn your attention to the 38923 risk-laden activities that we're still allowed to do. Even if this was an activity that had risks to innocent bystanders AND it cost the state money, passing a law and enforcing it would have to be worth the cost of doing so. As a society, it is worth it to have police patrol the streets to keep them from becoming anything like California's. The cost to insure vehicles is double in CA as in WA, and that's thanks to a complete lack of enforcement. WA is saving its innocent drivers from the injuries and damages inflicted by transplanted Californians while saving its own money for more legitimate uses of emergency services, and that's a legitimate use of law and enforcement. I can't believe how one could conceive that legislating and enforcing the PLB issue would provide any net gain to society, and I'm shocked to see so many names on the list of sponsors. Where's the principle, people? Legislating condom usage would be a far better source of savings to the state, and enforcement is as easy as 1-2-3! (catch a disease, go get treatment, GOTCHA!!!) It even parallels climbing in so many ways! Your only endangering yourself and your partner, getting a solution means calling for help, and the very fact that you called for help is the only way you'd ever get caught. And it's one of the best activities you could engage in on this earth. OK, I'll stop now. A principled legislator deserves your vote whether he/she's a D or an R, and one that blows with the wind deserves a serious consideration of the alternatives.

it seems you have heard of fluoridation, no?

I think the reason so many people are pro-MLU is that they actually think we would wear one if they "made" us. Haha. It's a problem with the perceived role of government, which neither R or D these days has a very good concept of, except maybe Ron Paul. Don't give up, Ron, you've got one vote in the bag!

A post-modern take on Patrick Henry. Give me liberty AND give me death!

:HC: what better place for a debate about HC (Health Care) than cc.com! what is your measure of health? did you have anything concrete in your mind when you made that statement? disease rates, death rates, rates of disability/dysfunction due to disease, etc., (since heart disease and cancer are #1 and 2, here you go) http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-death-from-cancer http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hea_dis_dea-health-heart-disease-deaths or maybe instead of the absence of disease, it is the presence of positive indicators of health, such as nutrition, activity level, mood, satisfaction with life, etc.??? http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity So, as you can see, we don't die from the diseases we get as often as other countries, but we clearly live much less healthy lives by a fairly wide margin. Sounds like a recipe for balancing unhealthy lifestyles with extra treatment to get the result of spending more for the same life-span. the problem with proving anything is statistics can say whatever you want them to say. You can find statistics that say a number of other countries have way higher death rates of cancer and heart disease, but is that because the incidence of those diseases are higher, or that treatment is less available, less attainable economically, or is it rationed by a government based on supply/demand or cost/benefit? So, whatever numbers people dig up to make a point, myself included, should be taken with a grain of rock salt. That's my point. Just because we spend more and live less than some european countries doesn't mean our health care system is 100% at fault. Even if we are just as healthy by some arbitrary measurement, we could still spend more simply because consumers demand unnecessary and expensive treatments that we think we're entitled to regardless of the actual benefit? Maybe doctors over-test and over-treat because of the insane legal climate that exists here in the US? Maybe doctors don't refuse to do unnecessary things because they don't have time to figure out whether it's necessary? Point: it's complicated. "Don't blame the victim" implies an action that victimizes people, and that may be part of the story, but it's not all of it. Your stance that we are purely victims of the system fosters entitlement and reliance on the government, when we really have a part to play for ourselves and you know it. "We're all equally unhealthy, and the soverign will of the malevolent American health care system has predestined us for even poorer health!" Too bad you're an atheist, you'd make an excellent Calvinist I'm not trying to make a fool out of you and put you on the defensive so we can get a rip-roaring internet debate going, I just want people to stop being overly simplistic and look for what we can all do as individuals to contribute to solutions. ps. married life is FANTASTIC.

Some more fun stats to ruminate on: Drug/Alcohol use costs society more than $200 billion annually USA is #1 in drug dependence in the world Prevalence is highest in the western US, especially urban areas Left-coast, urban people are Democrats In conclusion, Democrats are therefore druggies, and the source of our problems Oh yeah, and our deficit got gargantuan this year!!!! Just when the Dem's took control of everything!!!! Ridiculous big-spender communist America-hating Democrats. Oh yeah, and the recession. It's a complicated world out there. Think often, think honestly, and give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Careful with stats, boys and girls, you can make them say anything you want. Which country is the fattest, laziest, most blithely unhealthy and proud of it in the entire world? And which country has the most ridiculous entitlement complex, causing over-testing, over-diagnosing, and over-treating of all the things that should never have gone wrong in the first place? Does it really surprise you that we spend more? There's more to health care than treatment (where the costs show up). Why can't people talk more about making healthy choices and place at least SOME responsibility on the American public for taking charge of their well being?

kevbone, can you see an ethical difference if someone had put in this instead of those bolts? because you shouldn't

Wow, I can't even believe I just saw those pictures. Give the man a prize or something! My, what good taste you have Tvash, this one's my favorite too!

NOW FREE!!! well, maybe you could buy me a cup of coffee and a donut or something? Leaving town Monday and don't want this anymore. Near Bothell pickup only.

all you who were wondering why I didn't list an asking price... it was late, OK?

Good mileage, inexpensive, and best of all you're helping out a fellow cc.comer you all know & love! This is on Craigslist and will go fast, so don't be slow to act if you're interested. This car is is very good shape mechanically and interior/exterior. It has been maintained regularly at authorized Honda dealerships, and most recently had a full inspection and servicing in November 2007 so you can buy with confidence. Full report of inspection and repairs is available. Oil changed religiously every 3,000 miles. Aftermarket CD player, detachable face. Very clean. DX edition has fewer power options, so you have fewer expensive parts & wiring to replace as the car gets older. 172,500 miles, vast majority are highway miles (WA <-> MN many times, Sea <-> Tri-Cities many more). Car's only real flaws are: air conditioning not cooling, and cosmetic blemishes on both corners of rear bumper. $2995 Mostly any time of day is OK. 9 am - 10 pm David in Bothell, WA ><>