JosephH

Having social institutions with the real power stand their ground - in this case it would be South Park > Comedy Central > MTV > Viacom. Artists have their place, but then the likes of Rushdie, Westergaard, Van Gogh have either essentially or or actually forfeited their lives. I don't see you prepared to do the same and I don't suppose that was Molly's intention either. I wouldn't necessarily confuse and conflate this issue with that of the karmic payback of reverse colonization. Are there shared themes? Sure, but their's is entirely self-induced. Bummer, but definitely a case of reaping what you sow writ large across centuries.

Bill's original post was more about the right stand in the middle of a freeway waving an advocacy flag of your choice - there is no doubt about the nobility of the intent or cause, but the delivery methodology is naive and an accident waiting to happen. The results in this case were entirely predictable. Again, your responses lack an appreciation for the difference between principle and effective methodology. Advocacy methodologies, like anything else, do have a bell curve of effectiveness. Naivety and martyrdom are certainly in there to count on if you are managing a fundamentalist campaign - but again, that sort of managing and cheering on from the sidelines I personally find just a bit ruthless.

No, you confuse effectiveness with ignorance although I will say there are always those that appreciate a good martyr and like to cheer them on from the sidelines. Got that website up yet?

It's always interesting when effectiveness and ignorance are confused, though admittedly the latter sometimes does have the appearance of the former. It's also rather amusing with otherwise educated folks can't distinguish between them due to "principle". Such lack of subtlety usually makes for fine orthodoxies and fundamentalists, but then of course you become no different then what you rail against.

Oh, that would be the principle that South Park, Comedy Central, MTV, and Viacom failed. Molly is simply clueless, naive and at best 'unhelpful'. But hey JayB and tvash, websites and blogs are dirt cheap dudes, hell it's your chance to pick up where Molly left off and jump on the kiss-my-ass bandwagon and fight for what you believe! Just crank up a site or blog and start compiling those iconic interpretations of the big man hisself: here's a link to get you started: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&q=mohammed&gbv=2&aq=5&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=moha&gs_rfai= I would expect in two or three weeks max you could be a vertitable beacon for free minds everywhere. Please let us know when you're done and don't forget those press releases (you can get free widespread P.R. distribution here - http://www.prlog.org). Can't wait, I'm feeling freer already...

Oh, is there a principle in there?

And every hold is solid, every placement is perfect...

Everyone has a god given right to whack a hornets nest and then stand there and watch - you just better be sure you have thick enough skin for the response before you swing that stick.

My fear is any dog you bring would be talking more than you...

Or the landmine treaty...

Huh? Off, you just moved a climbing topic out of a climbing forum because someone decided to be a dick? what's that about? Why bother with any forums at all? Just make it 'spray.com' if any dick can bump a legitimate thread into spray...? Last I checked the notion of 'moderating' in a forum is flagging and acting on inappropriate posts versus threads.

Bomber is in the mind of the beholder. I don't see the problem.

One half of one of our rap anchors for a work session clearing a rockfall scar back in 2006 - completely servicable. I'm not really seeing a problem with the op's au naturale anchor pic. I'm way more concerned about the temperament of all you youngins these days; or to quote Riddick: "skittish, Toombs - very skittish..."

I'd say it probably has a lot less to do with 'bureau pricks' and a lot more to do with not getting all the relevant stakeholders to the table from the beginning. Tribal governments are powerful and should not be brought to the table late in the game. It's also the reason you want to avoid doing or proposing things at your crag that will involve, by regulatory or policy mandate, a) the railroads b) the Washington Department of Archaeology and Historic Preservation (WDAHP) or c) Tribal governments. Add to that numerous Federal stakeholders and the opportunity to get had is pretty high as you are back to attempting to navigate / peel a regulatory 'onion'.

Just a note that the TC 'Free Mescalito' team just said they will be off of it by the 25th of this month. It's still likely to be crowded due to the NA Wall Peregrine closure, however.

Doesn't sound like anything was done about them if they were discussed before so maybe it really is the case no one gives a shit about them. However, inappropriate bolting is always going to be a valid topic in climbing forums vs. spray.

Oh, the piton thing doesn't take a lot of practice but what does is competently cleaning and placing heads. Given how often and easily they blow and how many deadheads you could potentially encounter, it might be more worth your time getting familiar with heading in general (on a road cut or someplace similar).

Pitons are more a matter of what's needed and what works best for any given route or placement - the concept of 'favorite' doesn't really much enter in to it. Hammers, on the other hand, are subject to personal preference. Bill Coe has hammer threads here and on ST that show the various options. The choices of what you can buy is somewhat limited at the moment, but pretty much any of the hammers available should suffice for the small amount of nailing required on Mescalito. The objective is still to reach for a hammer as little as possible and at least one [former] Beacon climber has done it entirely clean fairly recently. Another Mescalito note: it will be the first open route west of the North American Wall Peregrine closure this May (primetime) and likely very busy as a result. It's also been the focus of a big free climbing push by Tommy Caldwell and that could be a problem if they're back on it. In any case, I'm guessing you'll want to start early, try to move as fast as you can, and be prepared to let other parties pass if you end up moving slow.

Aand you guys wag fingers about incessant babbling over inconsequential choss piles...?

As in overgrown by poison oak - bring your plastic underwear.

There are plenty of mixed routes at Beacon; of course there is also a route every six feet over the entire south face at Beacon as well, so almost by definition most new route opportunity is happening on the NW face or on some of the more dangerous ground N of YW.

Don't attempt to put up sport routes in trad areas and you'll be fine (and the recent chopping drama was about a mixed route, not a sport one).

Just when you think you have all the right tools for the job. Glad I'm not a gear whore...

Scared off many a climber that wasn't up to it is more like it.

And fortunately will be easily shoveled off the slide everytime it appears...