JosephH

Kev, the closure is based on knowing where they typically nest - in the case of Beacon it's on the Big Ledge scrape. There hasn't been a case of them showing a preference for anywhere else since they stopped using the [currently decomposing] North Face nest box. The purpose of this early season monitoring is to try and establish that they are using it, or to establish where they aren't nesting if aren't. This year I'd say they are definitely trying to use Big Ledge from what we've seen so far. If that changes we'll be trying to stay on it, but at the moment they seem to be zero'd in there.

It is good to remember that while we seem to toil in relative obscurity folks are sometimes seeing us from various other vantage points. At one point some folks scanned this site and between us figured out they had shot pics of Shane and I on Menopause from up on Hamilton - talk about good eyes and camera gear! Similarly I've seen folks at the boat launch and in boats out in the slough shooting pics of climbers. dhrmabum, I and others would be happy to take you up the SE Face route once Beacon opens for the season. Just post back up then or pm one or more of us.

The Peregrines either have, or have attempted to, nest on their Big Ledge scrape every year. In two recent years they failed on Big Ledge and successfully nested somewhere else nearby - in those two years the nest location was not verified. We had suspicions, but could not prove them.

New Peregrine monitoring journal entry up...

By and large, cc.com is the least robust of all the regular blog or forum sites I use. The search function is by far the poorest and most difficult to use of the lot. But, if I had to pick you guys working on your search or your overall availability and performance I'd definitely pick the latter at this point in time. I agree on the advice above to use google search first and then cc.com search - that advice should be repeated and amplified whenever possible.

Oh, I'll evaporate soon enough. But the only thing that might 'destroy' me out at Beacon is the new route. Other than that I'll more likely be giving up climbing for surfing, but with my luck only to be destroyed by a wave. Aloha.

Mammut. The Metolius / Lanex ropes handle pretty much exactly like Mammuts, but the sheath doesn't last nearly as long. I use the Metolius 9.8s for everyday stuff and the Mammuts for anything serious.

Nate, that's a drag; been there once. Good luck. Get renters insurance for this sort of thing if you don't have any other coverage. I know it seems strange that auto insurance doesn't cover thefts from cars, but it's actually renter's insurance that does.

Bill, you beat me to it. Don't think about it as 'moving forward' on an agenda so much as establishing a vested interest and presence. If you can do that then you're positioned to suggest or inquire about changing the status quo in various ways. As Bill said, the Peregrine closure isn't going away anytime soon. The overall issue of the closure you could probably revisit in 2015 when Peregrines are predicted to be as restored to their natural numbers and range as possible. But even then the best you could probably hope for is some modification versus the elimination of it. That gives you time to get organized and involved and don't forget that Erik and Ben will get around to resuscitating the CMP and CAC sooner or later and you DEFINITELY want to be as involved as possible in those activities.

So, Justin and others interested in getting / being involved, here would be my advice (and god knows we all know what that currency is worth around here): Don't bombard the Erik (BRSP), Dave (WDFW), and Lisa (WSP Olympia) as a bunch of random individuals - do it in an organized and managed fashion through the BRCA. Pick a spokesperson (Bill is good at this), a researcher/librarian (I'd say Justin is picking that mantle up), Peregrine monitors (Dave and Kenny seem up for it) and establish a formal agenda, plan, and website. BUT!!! You still have history, trust, relationship, and investment issues to deal with. Bill is a known quantity who comes off well, has at least an on / off relationship with Erik who I think trusts him. Dave and Lisa also know him and I've repeatedly vouched for him as being a straight shooter with Dave. But beyond him you don't have any ongoing history of [working] relationships with these folks. The value of this can't be understated - people and vested working relationships are what get things done - not emails, forms, or paper demands. People. There are lots of ways to 'be involved' and establish a working relationship with the BRSP: pre-open cleanup sessions, helping change out the signage at the beginning and end of each season, offering to be a resource to help clean up trails and other damage after big spring storms / floods, or even simply ask if they need help in other areas of the park. Hell, clean up the base of the West side when it isn't overrun by oak, because it's paved with trash from the tourist trail. The idea is use some initiative, do something that shows some individual and group investment both in the rock and in BRSP in general. And don't just do it once, you want to do things that keep you engaged year in, year out. Oh, and they have forms for volunteer hours and get a performance review on how many they collect each month. And as you gather and review the various relevant documents associated with climbing at Beacon you better understand there is an unwritten history of attitudes, behaviors, and incidents that go hand-in-hand with all those documents. Also understand that all regulatory processes ultimately have a political element to them; particularly when it comes to navigating regulatory and legal isssues in the course of attempting to achieve your ends. In that respect there are always interpretations, minutiae, and gotchas involved that can trip you up but which can be 'overlooked' by understanding or sympathetic stakeholders / allies or - just as easily - used to fuck you by people you've slagged, antagonized, and whose lives or jobs you made more difficult. Part of all that means learning, understanding, and embracing the history and legacy of climber actions and behaviors over the years at Beacon - not all of it is pretty by any means regardless of the indignation or rationales behind them. Learn that history and don't make the same 'feel-good' mistakes that were made in the past. Don't dismiss that legacy or think it's not something that still has to be overcome to some extent when dealing with various stakeholders. Overall, earn a little respect and a place at the broader table out there, because, if you just try to show up with your highlighted, underlined documents, and indignant demands in hand, you'll quickly find yourself getting nowhere fast. Another important point: be very careful of the budget / workload impact of anything you formally inquire about or propose on BRSP. If investigating or implementing some aspect of your agenda unduly burdens those guys they are going to clam-up and become immediately uncooperative (i.e. no more early opens at the very least). Oh, and realize anything big will be open for public review and comment which takes time and people may show up who don't share your ideas. Another important point - do the leg work and get the facts firsthand from authoritative sources. For example, the blasting issue (or, say, the big, new hiking trail development project under Ozone), better check your facts real close and maybe get a copy of the impact statements, because I can guarantee you Dave isn't letting anyone blast within a radius that will adversely impact the Peregrines. If it were an unavoidable safety imperative then I'm guessing Dave would both insist on all sorts of blast containment / blanketing and be there in person when it happened. Don't jump to conclusions on the sound of the words because it seems like they suit your point or agenda - get the real story as there's always more to it. Be as objective and journalistic as possible and strive to occasionally get outside your narrow agenda to check in with the bigger picture . And last, understand the BRSP is the LEAST powerful stakeholder of them all from among the mix of the railroad, tribes, Gorge Commission, Skamania County, WDFW, WDHA, WSP Olympia, etc. Even when the BRSP is on our side and in agreement, they typically have to pass it by WSP Olympia at a minimum and sometimes also the Gorge Commission, WDHA, and others. Also remember the BRSP and WSP has defended climbing at Beacon in the past and they like the cache climbing gives the park versus other WA parks. When it comes to dealing with Olympia, agencies, and other stakeholders, Erik is your best friend. And don't make the mistake of underestimating the local and national power of the Audubon Society - you don't want them involved and leaning on WDFW while talking to every TV news station in PDX as they have been in the past. Good luck...

Was in LA checking on my Dad for the weekend, but this time of year every two weeks or so is fine. If Dave or Kenny can get out during those alternate weeks and get some entries that would be great as well.

Thanks, I'll give her a ring.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But I would [naturally] disagree otherwise I wouldn't be pissing away a boatload of nice spring days doing it when I could be out climbing like you guys. Four of the five past years we've had early opens. I'm not directly responsible for that as all decisions about the closure are ultimately made by Dave and the WDFW. However, I'm pretty sure my monitoring has kept Dave more engaged at Beacon than he would likely otherwise be. In the latter three of those four years my monitoring data played substantially into pinning down the fledging / opening date and just my invovlement (and Bill's) kept Dave more engaged in the first of those years than I believe he would have been otherwise. And I say monitoring has been, and is, important because Dave has been slammed over these past years with the non-stop demands of new, large-scale wind power projects further out in the Gorge. For all practical purposes, the demands of those projects has made Beacon less of a priority for WDFW. And even when Dave can think about Beacon he doesn't have near the time to monitor it on anything approaching a 'regular' basis to really understand what's happening in any given year if they don't end up using their traditional Big Ledge scrape. So I guess from my perspective it boils down to what you mean by "making a difference". If you mean my monitoring hasn't permanently lifted the closure, then clearly yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with my monitoring or even Dave's, but rather the current biological and legal status of the Pergrines. Every day I get out at Beacon counts and so for me the early opens are worth the effort and constitute "making a difference" given we got about 10-11 extra weeks of climbing from those four years of early opens. No one is going to identify a relocated nest without putting in the time monitoring; so if that's to even be a possibility each year someone has to learn the Peregrine's behaviors relative to various locations on the rock and put in the time. And yes, credibility and trust built over time is the name of the game when it comes to being taken seriously enough for Dave to even entertain the notion of a relocation enough to consider verifying one. As Bill claims, and I agree above, WDFW has the regulatory responsibility for the closure, so it is WDFW and Dave who make the final decision calls on all matters regarding the closure. That means they have to visually verify any and all claims related to the Peregrines. But, if they don't get the ongoing monitoring data to back up calls claiming this and that, and don't have a relationship with the person making them, then nothing is likely going to happen relative to them. But all this basically misses the point. That point being that if all you folks think you can just pop-up in indignant angst on any given February 2nd and reiterate the outrageous injustice of it all expecting to be taken seriously or anything to happen then you're seriously kidding yourself. Without established relationships (at minimum BRSP, WDFW, and WSP Olympia) based on at least a modicum of mutual respect and trust nothing will ever change - ever. If you don't, can't, or won't establish those relationships, or if just the idea of it upsets your delicate sensibilities, then go climb elsewhere and forget about it. And hell, it's not like there aren't alternatives crags these days.

Thanks Rocket.

Thanks. No she's not hurt, but the insurance company totalled her car and is not really representing us well in the matter given the circumstances of the accident.

Our daughter who's going to school at UW was hit by another driver and we're trying to locate a WA attorney who specialices in auto/traffic matters. Could you please post up here or pm me if you are, or know of one. Thanks, Joseph

Reconcilliation has been use way more by republicans than democrats - where was indignation over the arrogance then?

American's have proven over the past twenty years just how susceptible they are to the Rovian FUD and lies that Fox is just exploding with these days. Just skip the republicans given they're 100% in the pocket of the insurance industry, get some spine, and go with 51%. It's what the republicans have always done as the ones who most often have utilized the tactic.

No sucking up of any kind is happening and you're a complete fucking moron if you think you'll change ANYTHING with an antagonistic, them vs. us mentality. NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE with your approach and infantile attitude.

pink does know what he's talking about...

Well, if you or anyone else somehow thinks that I don't want it open; that I'm buying a line of some sort; or that anything is going to happen without learning this stuff and developing relationships with 'those people', then all I can say is good luck with that. You of all people should understand that. It would also seem as if you ought to be able to just call Dave or his boss and talk to them about it all given you work together.

I understand that, and like Scott and Rick, but it wasn't a good idea for them to be doing it either and especially not posting videos on the Oregonian blog about it. The reality is that climbing at the Rat Cave is on more than dubious legal ground and if folks keep drawing attention to it the result is very likely to be unpleasant. The Friends of the Gorge and Gorge Commission aren't any fun at all to deal with on this sort of issue.

I'm not hating in any way at all. I'm simply saying you might not be doing yourself a favor to think of two routes as being comparable based on a C2+ rating.

I do have a copy of a number of materials I need to scan and post up on the website I'm posting the monitoring to. Too slammed right now, but will be getting to it over the next month or so. The Climbing Advisory Committee isn't currently formed or active - who will be on it when it gets reconstituted is THE $64k question folks should be concerned about.

This is where you might be getting hung up. A rating is not a very good route equivalency measure...