JosephH

Ah, the fine whine of petulant outrage - vintage no less. Da man be oppress'in me all d' live long day ober da bird. Where is we suppoze to do ours group azz-slapping? 'cause we's be men o' dee sort dat loves to grope at d' an anchor. Got's to go south to Yosmite where's wez can be men again. Tragedy, tragedy, tragedy 'cauze o' dem birds all ourz chilrenz will be sufferin' whiners too...

Well, aside from the fact the existing one was forced on them, the trail basically just grazes overlooking the South Face and no one from the trail can establish themselves out on the face or approach the nest. Climbers on the otherhand, can and do establish themselves on the face proper and are capable of approaching the nest. It's a big distinction between the two and why another exception isn't going to happen.

Until September. Ugh.

Wait - you're the biologist - the month-by-mating / behavioral cycles of the Peregrines is the most well known part of the science around raptors. On what basis would you say "three months"? Do you know or can you tell folks here why the closures [behaviorly] start and stop when they do (and many around the country don't end until August 1st or 15th)? There are good reasons why the closures run when they do, it isn't in any way arbitrary.

True enough, but the fact that they won't close the tourist trail (the proper action) doesn't mean they're going to grant climbers a second exception to the rule. Our numbers as a 'user group' are wholly irrelevant outside of the injustice of your emotional tumult.

It's not really an 'IMO' sort of deal - the South Face is small relative to closure boundary recommendations which are widely accepted by climbers elsewhere and by the Access Fund.

Chalk left from climbers merely means the routes have been climbed. I think what you guys all eternally hope for is some acknowledgement that climber disturbances DON'T ALWAYS result in abandoned nests. But I'm pretty sure raptor biologists would agree with you on that point today. The problem is that climber disturbances do always stress the birds whether they abandon the nest or not. The reason for the closures is to eliminate that particular class of human stressors. What you are essentially asking / hoping for is for raptor biologists to 'gamble' with the level of stress to some degree short of full closures which preclude it altogether. And they do that many times, with closures that go 'from this route to that route' - but, that only applies to much larger cliffs faces / structures / groups than Madrone or the South Face of Beacon which are both well within typical minimum closure recommendations / sizes. The problem is, unfortunately, we live in a place with small local crags as opposed to somewhere like Gunks, Bend, Boulder, or Chattanooga where there are still other open sections or walls during the closures. It's a bummer, but to be honest I just don't think biologists are inclined to that kind of gambling on small crags.

Absolutely not, neither Kanders nor Armor made any vests prior to August 2, 2005 - the day they acquired the vest company. Read the last sentence in the body of this link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chance_(body_armor)?wasRedirected=true

Yes, but they didn't own the vest maker then, Armor inhereted the obligation to pay the fine when they bought the vest company. Are you really not getting how that works?

It isn't - it's the Gulf Marsh Peregrine's fault. They would have been drilling in shallower water if it weren't for the Marsh Peregrine closure which forced them offshore

I'm telling you I saw one out of the corner of my eye just before I lost it.

Nope. Turned a dismount from an untethered highline over the McKenzie River into a failed high bar Flyaway and ended with being flung up onto the cliff alongside the highline and then dropped into the river - i.e. your typcial Peregrine attack.

If there are chicks there now you chould be fine to get back to things after July 1st. Give them until July 15th to be absolutely positive there aren't any issues at all.

To quote the Gipper - "now there you go again" - what you got right there is some classic olde school victimal thinking. Hell, thinking like that will make you an honorary local - it's another life ruined by the Peregrines!!! Swooped right down and blew him off the rock they did. I'm sure I saw it happen, there was two or three of them tag teaming him until he came off, gunning for him they were. I know I broke my L5 a ways back and I'm pretty sure that was the Peregrine's fault too. P.S. I don't think Pink is going to like you calling that part of Beacon 'very dangerous'...

Hmmm, that's a bit of a reading comprehension problem you have going there. Armor didn't buy the company that made the bad vests until after the fact - i.e. Armor didn't have anything to do with making the bad vests and from 1998-2005 wasn't in the vest business.

Here you go boys - your very own thread to finally free Beacon from the tyranny of the Peregrine closure once and for all. I know you have lots of great reasons why it should be open and even better ideas for how to go about it that are going to get 'the man' quivering with at least as much sympathy, empathy, and respect as you have for them. And hey, I'll stay completely out of it here so no worries there. Looking forward to it not closing next year.

It plays every February 1st like clockwork.

King of what? The flea circus of Beacon climbing? And climber mandate? At Beacon? You're kidding, right? The only mandate you'll get from locals is to deliver the collective whine. And hey, young climbers with time to devote to being good and who climb at Beacon keep their head down, accept the closure, and climb elsewhere when it's closed. They don't wail and moan claiming addiction, insanity, forced out-of-state moves, and suicide because the Odd Fellows Hall closes down each year. Me? I have limited time for climbing, don't climb sport, and don't care for granite or Smith choss. My time at Beacon is pretty much what I get for climbing every year and I made the call try and do what I could to get the most days out there possible. I'm not working for or at the behest of locals or anyone else - if they want something done, good luck to them, hopefully they won't be aiming at their foot again.

We've already done that square dance...

That would be great unless the person on the inside of the WDFW never comes up with the balls to actually say something to someone. So far, the whole lot of you have nothing but [whining] opinions. And those are wholly rooted in victimal persecution and angst at the injustice of it all. God forbid a single one of you might snap out of it long enough to get even a mininmal grip on reality, biology, law, or the other humans involved with Beacon. Now I know Beacon locals are averse to and challenged by more than a sentence or two of reality and facts, but then I don't really post up for you guys. But as a biologist with bonifides feel free to point out where I've drifted from reality, facts, biology, or law in any aspect of the matter. And I'm not interested in followers (not really the extended manclub type) - or whiners, the victimal, the persecuted, or other assorted losers too steeped in their beer to do more than bitch about a situation they are completely unwilling to do anything about. I am interested in peers capable of recognizing a plate and willing to step up to one. So, hey, no need to be nice to me, I don't really give a shit what you or the others think of me. And don't fucking call me a 'friend' when that's mainly evidenced by petty sniping, innuendo, and associated bullshit here - 'friends' like that I don't need.

I'm not the one bitching or flinging insults around on all the various threads. If they were moderating bitassy comments like LCK has been flipping off lately then this thread wouldn't be necessary. If Kenny has something to say to me on these forums or anywhere else then knock off the weak bitching, whining, and sniping and man up and just say it. The rest is bullshit.

Wouldn't that be speculation that could be taken as an overstatement of the traffic Madrone sees? Seems like Elaine and the County would be responding more strongly with the community if that were really the case. Monitoring is good. I'm booked and not interested, LCK isn't interested beyond bitch fodder, but some of you who care about Madrone should probably pick that up as it's unlikely any agency is going to assign anyone to do it at a level that would result in any real data.

Thanks...

Well, I go climbing at Beacon in June, 4 years out of 5. Personally I'm not willing to leave it entirely in the government's hands whether I get to do so or not with no say at all in the matter. As opposed to you, of course, who is completely happy to leave it to the guberment to decide the matter - but hey, no suprise there, I'm sure you don't want to rock the boat (or paycheck) at WDFW.

Bummer, but it gets to be a point where sniping whiners who do nothing but bitch really do merit a thread of their own in case they have anything remotely frigging productive to contribute.