JosephH

Coding...I'm an insomniac by trade...

Unlikely, what with the predictions for very high domestic travel and NPS stats this summer...

I am all choked up that conservatives are suddenly all up and 'states rights' again after relentlessly fucking Florida in the 2000 election, California over CAFE standards, and atttempting to remove all states' rights to provide oversight on credit, insurance, and the environment. Choked up I tell you - to think that conservatives have rediscovered their indignation - oh, the humanity! More like, oh, the hypocrisy! The administration isn't going to be picking through trash for what may be the odd worthwhile components of the law - it's quite appropriately rejecting it wholesale. Personally I think they should let them run with it an even maybe encourage Texas and the Southern states to jump on the [back of the] bus, too. What the hell, there'll be plenty of white patriots voting republican in 2012, so who the hell needs all those nasty latino votes anyway.

That was the initial speculation but then, however briefly, the 'actual' events were posted.

You're welcome. After your recent cc posts I hate to find myself in any form of agreement with you on any topic.

I believe, that is an incorrect interpretation of events. He was where he fell when they found him. They then took pictures and did their three pitches. Between the time they left his body and it was recovered, the bears ate his body and hauled what remained of it up the tree.

Moof is the only one who has posted anything vaguely resembling a productive comment in this thread - I've made no comment at all on the substance of his comments. The only comment I've made on his post was due to the (intentional or unintentional) assertion the [bRSP] rangers abused or lied to anyone - a comment I wasn't going to let slide. Other than that I've only responded to comments and smack slung directly my way. Don't want me to respond here - don't aim shit my way. In fact, instead of shooting shit my way, maybe you guys should consider following Moof's lead and come up with some actual ideas of your own or at least respond to his ideas.

It's pretty much a pointless exercise for Beacon climbers to organize for the sole purpose of whining as a group - no one will listen to them seriously for more than about 30 seconds and then they'll just nod their head for the rest of the meeting and pat them on their head on the way out the door. As it stands now the outcome of such a meeting would mostly be one of wonderment mixed with pity at the insular self-absorbtion of climbers and indignant sense of injustice they manage to maintain. They would also marvel at the complete lack of understanding of even the fundamentals of any aspect of managing a resource like Beacon Rock. No, I preach pulling your heads out of your asses and waking the fuck up. And that odd smell? That would be reality. Manage that and then sure, organize, learn a little bit so you don't sound completely clueless, and maybe even select some loser to be the BRCA spokesperson you'll likely ostracize later for talking and listening to and otherwise consorting with 'the man'. P.S. Bill is smart enough to not be in any pod I'm in; but hell, you'd know that if you were a local...

No, I keep telling you Andrew, I only speak for myself - I don't represent climbers in any way and tell all the agency folks that verbatim at this point. And trust me, I way prefer that to roping up with whiners.

I'm positive all those noisy little words get especially meaningless the instant you realize they're true - the WhineClub issues inpenetrable reality distortion shields that protect you from anything smacking of that. And when all else fails, you move out of state where you also don't climb. Shine on dude, shine on - you're as local as the Internet.

You just keep that keyboard sparkling with brilliance Andrew - you're almost starting to dazzle me.

Again, I'm not really the manclub type so I don't really do the group love thing. And 'my ideas'? Dude, get a grip - my only 'idea' having been a journalist was to objectively look at the existing paperwork trail, interview everyone involved (climbers and agency folk), learn the biology, learn the laws / regs / policies, sort out where the power lies among all the various BRSP stakeholders, sort out who does what in their jobs, and try to figure out what can legally be done about the closure. That was the only 'idea' I had. And the results of that 'idea'? A) Beacon climbers had burned every shred of credibility they ever had between bullshit stunts, childish behavior breaking the closure, inadvisable actions on mass cleaning, and relentless smack talk about the agency folks. B) Beacon climbers side of the story and myth in almost every salient event in the timeline was almost invariably shrouded in, or packed with, half-truths, never-happeneds, and out-right lies. C) Beacon climbers demanded a full closure when a provisional partial closure was offered to them. D) That there are very limited legal options for doing much of anything about the closure before about 2015 other than monitoring the Peregrines for early opens or the chance that they'll nest elsewhere either on or off the rock so the South Face can be opened. No monitoring? Then neither of those is going to happen with the current manpower, workload, and budget issues at WDFW - it wasn't happening between '00-'04 and wouldn't have been happening since without some climber dogging the status week-by-week. E) That in the end, law, regs, and policy all end up interpersonal politics when they hit the ground day in, day out. You avoid relationships with agency personnel at your peril. And when you 'want' something, no one is particularly interested when they know the bottom line is you're slagging them the minute their back is turned and just making shit up out of thin air to support 'your side' of the story - make that your 'myth'. My ideas? Learn the law before attempting to change it; sort out who holds the keys; establish a relationship with them; put in some time, energy, and funds to demonstrate tangible investment by locals to try and reestablish at least the shred of credibility necessary for the agencies to listen to what a climber might think or have to say. Do I need any other climber to embrace them? Nope, not a one at this point - I get my climbing in. Don't believe what I say? Hey, there are three Beacon climbers who are lawyers and a Kevbone is married to one - check with them and see if they say anything different or are willing to take on 'the man' over the closure. Don't like what I say or the way I say it? Too fucking bad. But look at the bright side, you have something else to whine about. Do you locals need to embrace 'my ideas'? Nope, you're completely free to stay heads down in the WhineClub fairlyland for perpetuity. Just don't be surprised when no one takes your seriously when you 'want' something.

Well, from your posts of late I'd say you're fitting right into the WhineClub posse - continually misinterpreting what's said, proffering one dripping line of victimal tripe after another, and spewing shit you can't back up with facts. First, you clearly have no idea of the history of animosity towards Beacon Rock policies or you wouldn't says something as blatantly stupid as your first statement. What doesn't benefit the climbers is their abject cluelessness and relentless childishness in thinking ANYONE recognizes, cares or sympathizes with the heinous injustices visited upon poor Beacon locals. NOTHING will ever change the closure absent FACTS to support FORMAL POLICY CHANGES. So long as you guys are this remarkably dense on that point there is nothing I can say or do that has any impact on you clowns at all - nothing changes in WhineClub's thinking regardless of what anyone says, least of all me. And nothing I say here has the slightest impact on the park or BRSP - they gave up thinking a couple of you might actually come around two head rangers ago and the new one likely isn't holding his breath. And name one instance of me 'acting like a ranger' other than foolishly being willing to talk to and listen to what the various agency personnel who run Beacon actually have to say? Tooling around as it were no doubt - a violation of the first rule of WhineClub. I don't 'act towards climbers' in any way other than to call a spade a spade. As for not being a climber - right on dude, say that to my face at the high anchor on Menopause if you can get to it. If you mean I'm not a member of WhineClub - damn straight, I'd slit my wrists first. From the Cannon to JT and half the crags in between I've never run into a crew of guys so intent on whining about their plight while at the same time so completely unwilling to do anything about it besides whine louder.

True, that would be inhuman as opposed to simpliy narcissistic.

Call the Seattle Symphony and see if they can tell you who their members go to. That's how I found a finger / hand doc in PDX (OHSU / Joel Solomon).

I don't believe anyone is talking about 'legal obligations', or at least I hope they aren't.

Well at least you're honest. Yeah, unfortunately work has cut way into my time since then. I will get done once things slack off a bit.

You must be mistaken, world class gear whores like the Coe don't drop gear.

So the sherrif made it crystal clear you should just walk away and go about your business on stumbling upon a body?

But we are talking Beacon and those individuals are Beacon from a practical law and policy standpoint - all "the man", "tools", "them vs. us" talk is some real great, easy-rider, feel-good stuff, but doesn't do climbers at Beacon any good at all in the long run. The very idea that you are going to somehow approach these various folks to make 'demands' or get what 'we want' with no relationship, no mutual respect, and just smack talking them [behind their backs] is the height of ignorance and stupidity. But then I forget, the first rule WhineClub is that 'talking with the man' or trying to objectively sort out actual facts makes you a 'tool' and god knows none of you can risk that. So how do you present and discuss your demands to agency personnel without getting 'tainted' or becoming a 'tool'? Email? Good luck with that shit boys.

Climber falls, other climbers find him on ledge/ground, take pics, go do a three pitch day climb, bears eat and drag body into tree. This unfolds a scant mile from C4 on a crag, not a wall. People will make of it what they will.

Falling 'skills' involving judgment might exists in the moments before a fall, but when a fall happens you're better off describing them 'falling instincts', unless of course you think and move a lot faster than I do.

I personally can't imagine a scenario in that area that wouldn't entail immediately attending to the victim or initiating recovery of his body and making contacting SAR the priority of the moment. This sort of thing, no matter what the reasons or how you slice it, just makes us all look narcissitic and self-absorbed and it won't be pretty if it makes it into the national press.

So a couple of posts into a new thread and you have to come in slinging shit like some monkey? And he's the moron?