JosephH

Not clipping bolts usually means they aren't necessary like most of the bolts on p1 of YW. That said, not clipping them doesn't give you the right to chop them in most instances unless the pro is solid and obvious. But dumbing crags down by bolting them to the lowest common denominator and then saying "just don't clip it" is also about as sad a construct and attitude as I can think of. And let's be clear, the experience available in gyms and most sport climbing venues is only a small part of climbing and you don't reclaim that by simply 'skipping bolts' (or even soloing for that matter). As far as anchors go, the notion of littering trees with webbing at Ozone or DZ/FS is an idiosyncratic throwback and on many lines simply leads to ridiculous topout drudgery that also dumps dirt back down on routes. In almost all cases out at both crags anchors are the way to go. The tops of both crags are also susceptible to erosion and the less traffic above vertical lines at either, the better. In the case of Ozone, given the clientele, you might as well consider the slope above the rock a deathzone. At either end of DZ/FS it's a debatable point, but make no mistake that being above the rock at either crag is a very dangerous affair on par with the Butte.

I'm definitely NOT down with this kind of sentiment. It's explicitly what transforms the very concept of 'climbing' into risk-free entertainment. There are routes you simply have to have the skill, craft, and head to do safely, where if you fuck up you could be seriously hurt or die. There are several of those at DZ/FS and they are perfect just as they are. If only that were true. But unfortunately wanting, wishing, and appealing, no matter how many peaple are collectively involved, has little to nothing to do with it as discussed on several Beacon threads.

The short answer (in my case) is 'yes' - both it's a drag and they draw crowds. It's very much a "bolt it and they will come..." sort of deal. It's not a scene I for one would want to see at DZ/FS at all and that's exactly what would happen. As far as it going back wild, the climbs I like will stay clean as long as I'm here, I suspect the same for other folks and their favorite lines. I will say though, lot of work has gone on at each end of the place for what seems to me to be a matter of rapidly dimishing returns, but the guys seem to enjoy doing it so it's ok by me I guess. If stuff folks don't climb goes wild again in the end that's completely fine with me.

So Jim chopped Bryan's new line. Hmmmm, now that is a bit peculiar. I guess before I'd say anything else I'd preface my comments by saying in general I don't share Bryan's taste in routes and from what I've seen he prefers very Broughtons-like climbing - faces holds, long desperate reaches, and small sharp holds - cool for Bryan, but not my deal in general. His taste in lines by definition send him onto faces that will typically require some bolts. I'd go further and say I personally wouldn't have bolted the bottom of 'Naughty & Nice', the line left of 'Tunnel Vision' (TV itself being great), or his new line, but that's me and Bryan knows exactly how I feel in this regard. But I was out a couple of weeks ago when Bryan and Tyler were there doing the new line and as I walked over to it I have to admit to not being very happy seeing the bolts on it, but didn't say anything. They offered me a ride on it so I did a TR go of it given I hadn't been climbing that much over the winter. On climbing the route I found it to be typical and in line with what I perceive Bryan likes in a route - small, hard, reachy moves. As I said, really not my deal, but even if I had been in shape I wouldn't have been able to climb it without those two bolts so in the end I kept my mouth shut and didn't say a word about the bolts. Now, putting aside some clearly unfortunate and inconsistent communication issues, I think part of the general issue here is Bryan's taste in climbing is just decidedly more Broughtons / Ozone than the more crack / traddish nature a lot of folks have had in mind for DZ/FS. There are no doubt an lots of partially or wholly bolted lines that could be done there, but putting them in will result in DZ/FS becoming just another Ozone which I think I can safely say is definitely not a future any of us has had in mind. Opdycke's whole mantra on the place early on (which I was glad to hear) was "keeping it real", by which he meant trad and putting in lines that worked with the stone and might keep the place significantly less PRG-O / zoo-like - basically a bit of a trad off-season camp. Lines to Bryan's tastes typically tend to require bolts more often then not and so I think that tends to clash around the edges a bit with others' more trad vision for the place. Still, despite not necessarily being personally wild about some of the choices Bryan has been making, I'm more than a bit surprised to hear Jim would have chopped the line and doing it without talking with him about it; doubly so given Jim's been advocating for an aid practice bolt ladder on the most striking part of DZ/FS at the same time. I like Jim (and everyone else involved) - and think he was spot on with his original call for "keeping it real" out there - but I also think there are times when that essential message and imperative has been tossed under the bus and forgotten in fits of enthusiastic frenzy. Overall, and particularly because I find DZ/FS to be one of the most charming places I've ever climbed, I think we'd all be well served by trying to remember it's not just our personal playpen, but a beautiful and natural place in its own right (however abused by garbage historically) and very much deserving of us trying to heed Jim's original call to "keep it real". That probably means we all have to make at least a few hard decisions around our choices or we risk it becoming a zoo.

Two opposed-gate, non-locking biners did and will always suffice. One or both being a locker is simply a matter of emotional comfort and protection against large numbers of very inexperienced people.

Well, I'm in Maui and have been so you can't pin it on me. That said, if bolts were put in on the corner between the Gold Wall and The Oracle I would have chopped them. That's been a free project for a long time before some folks decided it would be a good place for a bolt ladder. The bottom half of the route on the right side of the Gold Wall that Bill and Bryan (Powderhound) put up was originally cleaned for the direct ascent to the upper roof left of The Oracle. Shane and I have taken several goes at the lower, mid, and upper sections of the line (feel free.... It isn't, and should never be a bolt ladder for aid practice - there is endless rock for such activities - plenty of bolt ladder appropriate off vert stuff at the East end of Ozone. Love the recent aid revival to a point, but when it starts restoring unnecessary angles in rock that takes pro just fine or putting up practice aid ladders then someone is either over-enthusiastic, inappropriately nostalgic, or otherwise slipped a gear. From Tunnel Vision to Freely Freaking at DZ/FS is a stretch of solid free climbs and an entirely inappropriate place for a bolt ladder for aid practice.

I wasn't really much part of the organized work build out / dig out / ropes effort nor the trailwork, which is nice, I worked on Hollow Victory and the 'Atonement' extension, but that's about it. I still call it Dropzone (given there's a Farside at Exit 32 up in SEA).

http://www.tuolumnemeadows.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=103&g2_serialNumber=1

The dual minitraxions is probably best and what the boys in the Valley use. I'm kind of ambivalent relative to the use of a grigri or Eddy for top rope soloing. You do have to pull the rope through - but then I only rope solo doing free leads so manually pulling the rope through is what I do when seconding pitches until I'm up a ways, then the rope starts to run through the Eddy on it's own. So I'm used to pulling the rope through in a seconding / top rope situation and don't really mind it, and Rocky Butte and even Broughtons really aren't tall enough to get that self-feeding action going anyway. If all you're going to do is TR and going to do it fairly often then you probably should do the dual mini thing.

Would be nice to be able to have an profile option as to whether that link went to active posts or active topics. I prefer the latter.

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New Peregrine monitoring journal entries from Dave's latest sessions. Not a lot going on, but that's the way monitoring is some days.

Not the way I do it.

I would find Blownout brutally hard and undoable if I had to jam it. As it is, it's more of a romp not doing much in the way of jamming other than some slight and fairly transitory ones. I do very little jamming on FFA as well - it's definitely a lieback exercise and romp. I do no jams on the pitch of Dods above FFA to the tree and like two jams starting the crux to get into a lieback. In general, I find jamming painful, rote, and unaesthetic and don't care much for climbs that require more than a smattering of it. I do like watching Bill do Blackberry Jam, however.

Stem, lieback, and the rare jam, like maybe three or four momentary ones.

Naw, the corner of the big horizontal half way up is a massive flat jug, no need to jam!

Pretty much, if it's humanly possible to avoid it.

I undercling at the top of the BH with my left hand, move my feet up and just tag the horizontal halfway up with my right hand. I thing bring my left hand up next to my right, and my left foot out about two feet left of my hands and then just stand up. I then layback slightly off the upper crack with my right hand and tag the top with my left hand. the whole thing is basically a three move seqence.

I don't do a single jam on p2 and wouldn't be able to get up it if I had to.

I find the first pitch of YW completely unmemorable and consider the second pitch as all but defining the lower half of route.

The rampantly growing big deal these days is health identity theft. Amazing that we could get a payday loan shark operation on every other street corner as a lasting legacy of the Bush administration, but somehow the nation can't afford health care for the same people we steal from.

One thing? That's tough. I wish FFA was the first pitch of YW and then it would be the best of both worlds. Would be tough to choose between FFA/Dods/Dastardly, Blownout, and YW.

Got to love those length markers...

In their case I'm sure it would end up as "all you can eat" being ok given the Salmon are bigger than the birds. That is the situation with the Eagles, but their take is relatively small. The seals on the otherhand are enormous and really gorge themselves. A bummer, but also another manmade situation via the dams.

They are protected under the Marine Mammal Act. It's been a big quandry for all concerned and waivers have had to be applied for and approved in order to cull the problem seals.