JosephH

I don't believe anyone is talking about 'legal obligations', or at least I hope they aren't.

Well at least you're honest. Yeah, unfortunately work has cut way into my time since then. I will get done once things slack off a bit.

You must be mistaken, world class gear whores like the Coe don't drop gear.

So the sherrif made it crystal clear you should just walk away and go about your business on stumbling upon a body?

But we are talking Beacon and those individuals are Beacon from a practical law and policy standpoint - all "the man", "tools", "them vs. us" talk is some real great, easy-rider, feel-good stuff, but doesn't do climbers at Beacon any good at all in the long run. The very idea that you are going to somehow approach these various folks to make 'demands' or get what 'we want' with no relationship, no mutual respect, and just smack talking them [behind their backs] is the height of ignorance and stupidity. But then I forget, the first rule WhineClub is that 'talking with the man' or trying to objectively sort out actual facts makes you a 'tool' and god knows none of you can risk that. So how do you present and discuss your demands to agency personnel without getting 'tainted' or becoming a 'tool'? Email? Good luck with that shit boys.

Climber falls, other climbers find him on ledge/ground, take pics, go do a three pitch day climb, bears eat and drag body into tree. This unfolds a scant mile from C4 on a crag, not a wall. People will make of it what they will.

Falling 'skills' involving judgment might exists in the moments before a fall, but when a fall happens you're better off describing them 'falling instincts', unless of course you think and move a lot faster than I do.

I personally can't imagine a scenario in that area that wouldn't entail immediately attending to the victim or initiating recovery of his body and making contacting SAR the priority of the moment. This sort of thing, no matter what the reasons or how you slice it, just makes us all look narcissitic and self-absorbed and it won't be pretty if it makes it into the national press.

So a couple of posts into a new thread and you have to come in slinging shit like some monkey? And he's the moron?

Easy to say, and sounds great, but do tell (any of you) - detail a single incident of 'abuse' or being lied to by a BRSP ranger (Steve, Heather, Erik, John, Vivian, or Ben - name'em).

Look, you are under the mistaken impression I give a rats ass at this point or am interested in climbing or socializing with this crew. It's a lame social club of pathetic whining and imaginary 'bad boys' largely divorced from actual climbing these days. OH MY GOD WE ARE SO OPPRESSED!!! But are a single one of you prepared to do anything real about it? It's nothing more than a smack-talking, neo-nostalgic, feel-good circle jerk behind a rock when it comes to any aspect of interacting with the policies, agencies and people who manage Beacon. When you get right down to it the number one priority is clearly whining, not climbing.

Cooperation, competition, and cooptition are all in evidence in nature and I suspect 'fairness' is an enevitable outcome of cooperation as a survival strategy. I'd say that in competition, almost by definition, 'cheating' is a very peculiar notion and one which would have to be 'unnaturally' imposed on a system. Take life and feeding on a coral reef - it's a ghastly competition where eating without being eaten is the name of the game and there are no rules. What does 'cheating' even mean in that context? How strange the notion of 'cheating' is in competition can also be seen again and again on Wall Street and in American corporate board rooms where we as a society attempt to impose 'fairness' where it is clearly as unnatural as 'fidelity' in Hollywoood or politics. You might get all warm and fuzzy talking about 'fairness' in competition, but that warm feeling could just as easily be either a dog or the chairman of Goldman Sachs pissing on your leg. Or at least that's one monkey's opinion...

It's pretty obvious at this point given you can't seem to come up with anything remotely approaching an objective fact relative to the Peregrines or the closure. You guys can cry together all you want on pm's, but don't bother 'coming out' until at least one of you is prepared to deal with the adults who manage the rock. They aren't vaguely moved or impressed by your angst, sense of injustice, or what you want - they deal in facts. You're barking up the wrong tree if you think sympathy is going to play any role in the matter, so stow the pleading.

Works for me. Clueless whiners should have just such a place.

And god knows moving to Colorado has certainly been a worthy contribution to their continued well-being. She agrees and approves your message... [ taken this morning... ]

My wife is a 10-year yoga practicioner who could kick my ass doing just about anything. I take her up Beacon's SE Face every so often. Last time she started to say something about difficulty/fear and I asked her if she 'was a yogi or not' - it earned me a dirty look but she effortlessly floated the rest of it. As you just noted mindset, self-perceptions, and outlook all count.

It would be an access issue if there were ever something more substantive than woeful plaintives being discussed.

================================================= *** YOU - ARE - STILL - NOT - GETTING - IT *** ================================================= It doesn't matter what 'the group' wants (as if we don't already know what the group wants...); what the group 'wants' is irrelevant without some - any - legitimate, reality-based (read legal, policy, or science-based) arguments for why anything should change. There is no point whatsoever in telling any agency 'what we want' unless you can cite and support specific legal and / or policy changes. What we might 'want' holds the same weight as our 'opinions' - i.e. none. ================================================= *** YOU - ARE - STILL - NOT - GETTING - IT *** =================================================

I think we should reserve the eastern most parking spot for that baby - looks like you could post complaints straight to youtube from the parking lot.

In general, thinking and runaway mental babble IS the problem with fear so I wouldn't recommend making the internal 'dialogue' any worse then it already is - better to just stay focused 100% on the task at hand versus doing more 'talking' to try and 'calm' yourself. First tip for breaking 5.10/.11 - lose 5, 10 or 15 pounds if you have it hanging around. It makes it a lot easier to bust a grade.

Well, unless and until you're willing to get ruthless with illegal employers and carry a national ID card you're just whistling that tune up your own asshole.

Well there's problem with your whole approach - no one's 'opinion', including mine, counts for squat when it comes to the law, policy, or science relating to the Peregrine closure. So it really doesn't matter a damn if I state my opinion, you state your opinion, or you collect and distill a hundred opinions - the State of Washington and WDFW don't make policy based on opinions. That's why I made the other thread on the off hand chance any of you have anything more than whines and opinions. Ideas, facts, or cogent arguments presented so far that might support dropping, altering, or narrowing the closure - zilch, nada, not a single one. And again, have at any of my statements above you think are incorrect in any way - tear'em dude, or present your own.

Yep, but they'd get that writing done a lot faster if they could actually come up with some ideas or arguments around the closure which are a bit more succinct than "wwwaaaagghhh".

Anglin in his 50s did it in what, like 11 hours... Aid Blackberry Jam a few times...