JosephH

You keep reiterating my point post after post. Deeper and dumber by the moment. The only thing disproportionate about the response was the amount of time a bunch of equivocating white executives tooks before even they had to sack up and act like men who stand for something besides quarterly earnings.

Finally some spine...

....how can a REAL climber not want to chop it? Real, meaning one with ethics and willing to accept risks are a part of climbing.

KaskadskyjKozak, guys like you are an embarassment to true racists and chauvinists who at least have the spine to stand up and own what they believe however sad and pathetic they may be. But guys like you try to claim to be neither, but rather hide behind a mask of the same reguritated words Karl Rove and other master manipulators of race in politics have spewed for several hundred years in our country. Imus and folks like you are living proof that racism, while by and large now forced underground in popular culture, can easily resurge when given the cover of disingenuious, national leadership who came to power only by wielding hate at the grassroots level of rural America.

It does sound like it might be worthwhile exploring acupuncture. My doctor in Chicago was also in a bad accident before becoming an M.D. that left her with excruciating back/hip pain that no MD could ever resolve over several years. Then in desperation she then tried accupuncture and got fabulous results. Being who she was she enrolled in medical school, became an M.D. and promptly headed for four years of studies in China. Her experience sold me, particularly given she learned both schools of medicine.

Again, always good to hear from you racists when you think you have sufficient cover to come out from under your rocks. Your form of racism is among the most unpalatable mainly for the sneering and unmitigated cowardice it hides behind most of the time. It is the worst sort of cowardice and, again, I just can't think of anything sadder or more pathetic than the plaintive whine of the [priviledged] white male.

And for those of you who can't recognize behavior deserving of outrage when it comes along, I'd say adjust your sensitivity dial. He maybe the bigot-of-the-week and you've just been too media saturated to care, but if you don't find his comments completely unwarranted and beyond patently offensive then you are not only as ignorant than him, you aren't even capable of processing it anymore - hard to tell which is a sadder condition. His comments towards this team of young women who have worked their guts out to get where they are would be just another racist pejorative I'd expect from at least four of you if you ever spoke honestly rather from your usual couched bullshit. Coming from someone in his position it is no longer a simple matter of personal responsibility and freedom of speech - as an ex-journalist (and Father of a teenage girl) I have no problem saying it borders on criminal on his part as unacceptable hate speech. That the Chairman of GE, NBC, and Bill Gates haven't called for or ordered his immediate firing is about the only part of this incident that is more embarassing than Imus himself.

John Mclaughlin an 'unknown'? Hard to imagine, have things gotten that sad in the guitar world?

Duck Baker

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Will be out at Rocky Butte about 3:30 or so...

The premise for the anchor replacements was like-for-like functionality.

Kevin, I added an anchor to replace a tree anchor that required 60 feet of rope and still sucked for the purpose of accessing the routes it served. I was specifically, repeatedly, and independently asked to eliminate that rope by BRSP, the WSP Resource Steward, and the WDFW. The replacement anchor and rope are virtually invisible, both from the ground and Grassy Ledges. And given one of the two routes is the best, if not only reasonable place, to stage a rescue litter off Grassy Ledges, the anchor can also serve that rescue option as well. Jim O. and pretty much everyone else who has seen it views it as a much better arrangement to the rope running from the tree down to the now removed sport anchors. So again, the rope sucked for getting down to the routes, it pissed off three different folks we don't want pissed, and was a straight anchor trade for the tree.

If you're talking a top anchor and the route gets any traffic at all then I'd say put in an anchor to spare the tree. I've seen too many of them die over the years. Bottom anchor for roped soloing - use the tree, I do all the time.

Kevin, haven't climbed it, but if you've done it 30 times and you're still with us it would indicate that it's fine. That it isn't risk-free is what you seem to be objecting to. At what point does it stop? When all routes are risk free? When they're risk-free for just you and good climbers, or can lesser climbers want bolts in places you don't think they're necessary? Climbing without risk is something else.

Mr Phil, charges of arrogance rooted in ignorance on the topic at hand is pretty intimidating. Adding bolts for soloing is completely lame and pretty much the antithesis of the whole idea of creative self-reliance.

Have to say again this is a bad idea, you'll piss folks off, and they'd last less time than a top anchor at Rocky Butte - and for what? Hump an empty haul bag up and fill it with rocks for an anchor if that's what it takes, but like Kevin said, getting creative is the name of the game.

That would work for me...

People going up on Hood unprepared to deal with reality have about the same media effect as Potter on Delicate Arch. However, those involved with the Hood incidents weren't intentionally attempting to attract media attention.

I suppose if you don't think painting a picture of climbers as self-absorbed and self-agrandizing boneheads who need to be kept on a short leash by the staffs of every state and national park with climbable rock is a problem then I can see how it might be hard to recognize the many issues involved.

No fixed pro, no climbing on arches, no slack/high lining, and a new climbing management plan. I'd a simple guy, but I'd call those changes... [quote=National Parks Service ]Climbing Debate Opens at Arches Public comments sought on new "climbing management" plan. March 26th, 2007

You're a bright guy, you tell me...

Countless ways, all context dependent. I'd say ridiculously uninformed or self-absorbed not to be able to recognize and or understnd the basic problem involved with the incident.

Doing Delicate Arch was a bonehead move no matter how you cut it and the backlash from NPS was swift. NPS and NFS personnel are also now on the internet and this sort of thhing travels fast in their ranks doing no one any good. Patagonia was equally culpable and boneheaded in their logistical and initial PR support of this stunt. Both Patagonia and Potter deserve to be soundly panned by the public for the incident. Dropping the Potter's was an unavoidable and quite appropriate move for Patagonia as part of managing the fallout. Thinking caps and common sense are in order all the way around now that money and sponsorships are an integral part of climbing.

Yeah, got my days confused. I can go out today (Thurs.) at 3:30 or I'll be available after 12:00 on Friday...