billcoe

DULCE ET DECORUM EST Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind. - Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! An ecstasy of fumbling, Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time; But someone still was yelling out and stumbling, And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . . Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning. In all my dreams, before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning. If in some smothering dreams you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues - My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.* -Wilfred Owen * translates to, ‘It Is Sweet And Honourable To Die For Ones' Country.’

Realistically, it could be possible that some of the unclimbed cliffs out there are not choss at all under all that wet dirt and grass. DTing on them may in fact be worldclass awesome if you can get some pro. Good luck - should be some interesting TR's! I'm surprised there are so little opinions on this, anyone else want to pipe up?

Probably even more so since Middendorf has listed an exact copy of an extinct ice hammer you are looking for right now! http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/s...dd39#Post455263 BTW, I use to have one of those and lost it at some point. Sorry dude. I think I paid $29.95 for the thing, it's on e-bay right now (Well used) for $52 and has 5 days left. Looks like had we all invested in Chouinard Ice hammers we'd have made a lot more money. Who knew? Probably Middendorf, he's got a fairly sizable pile of crap there.

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/454427/an/0/page/0#454427 Dave, did you check this? Might be something in this pile you can use? Not only that, but the Chouinard ice hammer listed was OWNED by the great John Middendorf. You can buy it right now, closes in 5 days. Coincidence that K wanted to shut down that post for something YOU need? Regards: Bill

Works for me Klenke, might be your version of adobe.

Nolse: I can only speak for myself. Agree with the previous replys and generally I think its a great idea. My only problem with it, and it's not a small concern, is that I think "generally" tooling should be "off trail" and not on good, solid, established routes, and would fear that it may get popular and spread to already crowded places which have good routes, and those routes could gradually become chewed up. Of course, it seems like a low probability of that ever becoming true. Given the nature of the gorge, and the lack of activity due an increadable amount of fluff and grass on the cliffs, coupled with near year round damp wet weather, esp. on the Oregon side, drytooling would be a way to get up some of that stuff which has yet to see the footprint of a person. A note of caution, should you get out there, on lead, putting in bolts......whew......thats admirable, but you might evaluate that on a case by case basis to stay safe. I'm getting "shrinkage" just thinking about a FA up a loose chossy wall trying to put pro into loose rock. You might find yourself putting in 9" bolts for instance in some of those spots. (Use Stainless Steel) I'm not sure how much you've done out there, a quick trip up the well established little 5.5 "Pillars of Hercules" route might have you reevaluating some of the bigger stuff out there. Have you done that route? Some of the folks who've gone way out there say it gets way wild and wooly. Ask Wayne for instance what he thinks, he posts here. I ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF. Thanks for asking everyone first. Regards: Bill

Sort of what a community of climbers should be eh Dave? Looking out for each other and generously sharing some interesting things related to climbing? Regards

Dumbshit A simple thank you would have been more than sufficent K. A lot of us would be interested in an opprotunity to buy a unique 1 of a kind Titanium Portaledge or an amazing amount of historical items, pitons and assorted mish-mash from Middendorf. K, please note that "the yard sale" is the title of this part of CC.com. Regards: Bill

Eugene would be my pick. Use to have the best pysllocybin mushroom picking I'd ever run into as well.

I'm not proposing anything, just reporting. I drive a Honda CR-V, so as a SUV owner.........well, if someone tagged my car I'd chuckle over it, especially if they raced by and tagged it ala Picadore as I sat inside idled at a light. Yesterday I had that SOB so stuffed full of crap I couldn't see out of the back. I use it for deliveries for the company. Bought it especially cause the civic couldn't take enough stuff in it (and having 160,000 miles on it was a secondary curse) I sure wouldn't see a bumper sticker tagging coming or going. I be all like get home, step out and "WTF?" Where'd that come from? As far as your suggestion of hitting cars with hammers.....PLLLLEEEEAAAASSSE!

Sorry, although it appears you have plenty of opinions, I only saw 3 posts of yours on page 1. They are; Hmmm, I must be missing it. You mean that removable sticker thing? I think nobody is talking removable K. Bush stickers are removable, Kerry stickers are removable. Check these links out. It's serious.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, Ok, I'm awake now, got it. Good point, keep that pimp hand strong.

This is soooo reminicent of the old prospectors and early western settlers who would have this discussion "bear vs Bull", who would win. They'd argue it out until they had to go git one of each and put them in a pit and watch for entertainment. It could go either way and often did. Betting and drinking would accompany the entertainment. Use to be fairly common back then, bunch of freaken' bored savages. My pick: Polar Bear, everytime. No matter what shark species. Grizzly bear, most of the time. Black bears would be chewed up and spit out by everything from the Great White, Tigers, Makos, Hammerheads, Blue sharks, Thresher sharks all the way to the Black tipped Reef sharks. Except when you get to nurse sharks and sand sharks, then the black bear would win. So who's bringing the beer ya savages? I am so there.

Rob, as you may know, the guys on Ascentionist take a dim view of both Bolts AND Gyms which they surmise must bring in lots of new climbers via birthday parties, marketing etc etc., leading to a general f*ing up the sport. Very dim view. So it's no surprise Matt didn't announce it to them. It would have been like jumping into a Lions den at the zoo after not feeding the beasts for a couple of weeks. I say good luck Lamebone too, like starting any business, it's hard work and risky. Bill

I'm surprised that after all this lip flapping back and forth, no one has mentioned the newest sport in the US: SUV tagging!? Yup, slapping a bumber sticker on an idleing suv and booking off before ya get your ass blasted by an angry SUV/Gun owner. Very tre-Chic and exciting. Here ya are for more info. http://www.aceweekly.com/Backissues_ACEWeekly/2002/020912/cover_story020912.html http://ideacog.net/suvluv/reality/ http://www.nosuv.org/campaign.html This may be the fastest growing industry/sport/activity out there. I think it may be OK now to wear fur again cause all those folks are now tagging SUV's and forgetting about fur. So there ya have it. Unless you now need some bumber stickers: get those here: http://www.idontcareaboutair.com/bumpers/create.shtml Bill

Anyone interested in this weekend? Possibly Sun AM? Before church?

Ireneo: it only seems odd to you since you, and only you, appear to have given up on cars and ride a bike. The rest of us jackasses just keep buying bigger and bigger SUVS. Hell man, we are praying, I SAY PRAYING NIGHTLY, that they rip up the Artic and drill the holy sh*t out of it immediatly to get the gas prices down a nickel so we can keep driving like drunken Monkees tossing shit at the zoo. Well, till we run out of fuel anyway. Far as that goes, my house got built with lots of wood. And it was old growth too, in 1912 nobody could even spell 2nd growth. I can't be a hypocrite and say that now NOBODY gets wood for homes can I? I mean, I'd support it if it didn't have to apply to me since I'm not the one using the wood, I already have a house and all. Wait, was that just a retorical question you asked? Hmmm.........sorry. Well - that's my answer anyway if you are interested. Ditto on the good work congrats too. - thanks for the heads up Doug. You might consider cross posting this at access issues as well. Regards: Bill

Chris, the how much info in guides is a 2nd and separate discussion IMO. No need to apologise either. Again, from the 99 percent of us here, THANK YOU for the heads up. The joy of climbing with a guide book can easily be avoided by people like Specialized if they would just not buy one. I'm glad the books have gotten better. Although I love to show up and just adventure climb, there are plenty of places around here that have no guidebooks and I do that occasionally in those uncharted out of the way places, some of which have yet to see the footprint of man. Specialized can do the same. I remember the transition from the Green Roper Yos book to the loose leaf Meyers Topos. Schweet! My partner struggled and took a hang freeing the 1st pitch of NW Face of 1/2 Dome which the first Meyers topo called 5.9, then it got changed to 5.11 in the yellow book. My point is accuracy and information is to often be envyed and appreciated. It is easy to leave the book in the car if one wishes for something else. Just walk down the vally and pic a line on Watkins for instance. High Regards: Bill

Thank you for letting us know Chris. Regards; Bill

People like you should pay twice. They should leave the rest of us alone. Please don't take this wrong, I just want them to leave me the F*UCK ALONE GODDAMNIT. WE ALREADY OWN THE f*EN LAND. IT'S OURS. Have a nice day, good luck Ivan. And that's my take. Bill

Well, you are wise to ask such pointed and pertinant questions. In answer to your question Squid, you can definativly answer that question affirmatively if his cock tastes like sh*t.

I'm at 14,656 "files" on my computer. Thats @ 78 gigabites of music so far. They won't fit on my sons 40 gig Ipod. Some of those files are full albums, so it must be well over 16,000 songs right now I would guess. I'm still lacking some Jethro Tull (hint hint), but I have some other real rare and/or interesting songs (hint hint) if you are interested. Touch base when we are out climbing. It's basically oldies with some current stuff like Green-day and country tossed in. I have been pro-active and deleted ALL of the massive amounts of "hip-hop" on that computer, generated from allowing a 14 year old access to it, which I found to sound like crap. That left about 1 album, Ice-T's the "iceberg", and a handful of songs from various "rap artists" if those words can really be used together. BTW, with over 14,000 files, I still do not have anything that Skeezix just mentioned. In fact, never even heard of that stuff! A quick seach and listen and some of that stuff sounds great! Thanks for sharing Skeezix.

Found porno? Non-event. At least we aren't seeing the "found needles, porno, used underware and condom wrappers" in the Rocky Butte section daily.

Coast Guard?... perhaps. It IS a tough call where to draw the line... that's why I personally don't like drawing it. BUT, I think we can all agree that climbing is something that we're voluntarily doing. WE (or those climbing around us,) are the ones putting our butts at risk. Yeah, it's a tough call. Take fisherman. When they put out to sea and put their ass on the line, we benefit from that. The coast guard is there, available. Should the fisherman pay for the rescue? Absolutley. It is often the case where a few brave (stupid? ) few put out under financial pressure while others choose to stay home under marginal conditions. That is a choice they make. As far as climbers go: ask yourself this question. If we as climbers demand that the government spend money AND risk lives (and no rescue is risk free as the pavehawk which landed sideways onto Mt Hood shows) then they should expect the right to decide WHO gets to climb, WHEN they get to climb, the CERTIFICATIONS they MUST have, and WHERE they can go. If you demand their involvement, then they should be able to set the terms and conditions, no? Is that not fair? If you not even as demand, but via default, allow them to commit lives and money to our playtime? Is that not fair? My thoughts: they stay out of my life, I make my own choices and pay the consequesnse when I make a mistake. MY choices, MY decisions, MY life, MY ass that is risked, when I want, where I chose and I pay if I overreach or make a mistake of going into a remote area solo with only a cell phone and not 4 or 5 well trained buddies. I would want you to have the freedom to make those choices as well. I'm very surprised I haven't had a dogpile of people swearing at me for suggesting the goverment leave us alone. This should be a passionate issue. One which has many nuances and no one answer. Thats my opinion anyway. Regards to all: Bill

The government should stay out of that business. Climbers should take it upon themselves to take care of themselves like we have done throughout Europe for the entire last century IMO.