billcoe

Perhaps: Joseph and I were thinking something maybe if the weather is good. What's (where's) a rap wall?

Buddies, it was the origonal 2 cam unit. Totally worthless, once placed, it not only walked if you thought about touching it, it actually ran:-)

I vaguely remember doing it clean over 20+ years ago. I think I gotta drink the green tea to get my memory back, when I first read this thread I forgot where it totally and it was ringing only a vague "hey, that kind of rings a bell thing". Now its sort of coming back, I use to run up that thing pretty frequently, I think it use to be my fav. aid pitch out there for quite some time. In the pic above, pretty sure the route goes off to the right while still under the roof, but missing going out and over the actual roof. The pic makes it look like you are free hanging in space and have your feet dangling over nothingness like Bishops Balcony in Yos, but I don't thing ya do. Anywho- Good job Beth! BTW, Smith needs this kind of attention so that everyone in the world can remember that this is the place to head to in the spring.

Not sure how to post a pic, but this looks damn near perfect to me. It's a combo knife and nut tool! http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=906334#906334 _ _________________________________________________ "it's a floor wax, and a dessert topping!" Dan Akryod from Saturday night live.

Well spoken David. Camping high and skiing, summiting or just picking out a small steep, nearby close objective as conditions dictate and permit use to be a great joy of mine. Of course, in those times when the weather went bad, just getting down can be quite an interesting time as well. It always struck me with wonderment how radiacally conditions could change in the winter. Have fun!

Will.......that leaves me speechless wondering what hell must be in the dark recesses of that mind! . I've found a better job right here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3752242.stm Sperm Bank Donor. Best of all: Mom would be proud that her son was workin in the bank. Concerning the whole REI thing: I've alwasy thought that the easiest way to sleep at night was to let the golden rule guide you waking actions, ie treat others as you would like to be treated. (That way, when you need to F* over the group that f*ed you over first, it's already pre-justified:-) ) If you make it through life with nobody F*en ya, but in treating others right and getting the same back, then it's a sweet and blissful existance.

Hi David: Next time ya see me ask me about Hood in the winter if you are interested.

They is? ........What? Dane, I have a lot of respect for your opinions and willingness to hammer out a divergent (divergent from the mainstream) ethic. I too have seen some just unbelievably frigganly stupid bolting tricks around here as well. I also appreciate that you use your real name. Its way too common that some weak pussy jackass shows up and spouts off attacking with a big angry ignorant filthy mouth, knowing that he can just violently anonymously flame without getting the ass-kicking saying it to our faces normally would bring. However: I suspect you and I radically disagree with some things concerning bolting. On the Prussic thread, for instance, I read your opening post, and Josephs reasoned response. Having climbed with Joseph, I can assure you he maintains a classic "trad" mindset and probably has had this for the 30+ years he's climbed. I haven't seen your response to him yet and would like to read it, (ie that he knows those climbers and they would only bolt if necessary.) If you hit a blank section, why not bolt it? I do not know from your post if you have even seen or done that route? I have not, so I can only read others concerning it and make up my mind based on those posts. My fear: is that climbers hashing these points will give the man another reason to control the "resource". I watched a Yosemite ranger on TV discussing how a "climbers bolt" is violating and permanently changing the environment while (literally) the Part Service was at that exact moment plowing under some trees with heavy equipment to put in a new roadside pullout complete with picnic tables and restrooms to handle the increase in traffic in another part of the park. But that wasn't discussed - and that should have been the focus. If you step back and look at the big picture, when a Glacier point rock fall, or the huge rock fall at lower brother is compared to ALL the bolts in Yosemite, ALL the bolts would amount to no more than a near invisible pimple on a knats ass. Nearly invisible and amounting to slightly more than nothing. That is radically different that what happened at Dishman, where a small area got F*ed up in a huge way with bolts overused, glue on holds, chipping and writing on the walls caused by an apparent few selfish individuals. You asked for my thinking and that’s it. I'm generally OK with the way the world is today. I (generally) have no problem with bolts and would like to try the Prussic Peak route. I think the biggest problem with bolts today, are that kids show up straight out of the gym and want to emulate what they see. They buy a drill and figure they're doing the right thing to make something safer. They are just ignorant and don't know it yet. They should be educated. That’s my opinion. I suppose you'll hear plenty of others as well. I have very high regard for the way you approached the abortion at Dishman. That was a sickening thing. You showed commendable restraint, courage and intelligence. However, from the sounds of it, I do not support your other ideas AT ALL or what you appear to want to do. I suspect most climbers would agree with me, a few with you, and a few would be far on the other side of the discussion. I vote for status quo and leaving it alone. Folks should step up when they see an obvious abortion - but let it lie quietly otherwise, cause its OK to put a few bolts in to protect a climb. I would support downsizing the Forest Service and letting them find real jobs, private sector jobs where they can learn to be productive members of society. I do not want, nor did I vote for them to be, the police of the wilderness. That's my thoughts. Bill

So Cracked: Are you also thinking I can't return my slightly used outdoor underware which is starting to prematurally wear through after 2 years? They were never made brown in, although they may have had some slight skid-marks on occasion. Don't they just toss them back on the pile and resell them? How about my 5 year old rope? I don't feel comfortable leading on it any more: don't they want me to be happy? Oh, Blake, since you got a great price, maybe you can buy the Medium and - or either A) lose weight or B) sell the jacket to Lynn Hill via internet transaction like on this site in the gear for sale threads?

I can't even spell 5.13

I just wish I had the mental capacity to figure it out. Lacking such, I will sit down quietly with out contributing.

Uhhh Hi Michael: First, welcome to the board. The previous discussion on this board shocked me, and I am glad you want to address the issues. I already disagree with you. Like you, I'd love to see the PRG be the best place to climb in the world and Gary get rich. However:, what's wrong with an open forum? Best place for this discussion IMO. This is a climbing "community". I've climbed with a bunch of folks on this website (some pretty good climbers on here!) and short of getting around a campfire and hashing all this out, this website is the best we can do. (Thanks again Jon) And get Gary involved as well. He was an English major, he can correct my shitty spelling even if he had nothing else to contribute. I'm not emailing you. I'll start it off right here because I want to know if there's a 100 pussies just like me with identical issues. Talking to Joseph earlier, he had the discussion with Gary several times that he wanted jug routes on the overhanging walls to do laps on. That reflected my viewpoint 100 percent. I love churning and burning to finish a workout up an overhanging 5.7 or so, just running up and down up and down some easy route where I know I won't get injured. It works the muscles - and elimanates my big issue which has kept me away from gym climbing, IE, tweaking my little pussie tendons on my fingers due to attempting to carry a bit of a wide load up the vertical. Thats my meager contribution. Your welcome! Money isn't the issue for me, health and time management are. You can put chalk dust in there as something I dislike in the gym as well. (am I just a whinner or what?) Anyone else want to specify a way to better the PRG or is this just going to die out with angry sullen silence? (How about that for a metaphor or allegory or whatever the hell that literary blurb was! Check me out Ireno!). I am definatly not the best person to detail what a gym should be as I have not traditionaly been a gym user. But others here are. Anyone?

Thanks Thrill I agree, in voicing it a person gains 1 more option. You can still move on/put up/shut up later if you can't effect change and want to do so, but at least you can say you did try, and who knows......... Maybe Gary is turning into an old dawg like me, (this is what my wife says about me anyway) and you can't teach him new tricks.

Yeah, Gary is an old friend - sort of go back to hanging out during and after college days @20 years ago. Gary has all the traits I want to see in people who hang around me: smart, intellegent, easy going, nice, fun, and loyal. He's a great guy, but we drifted apart having business's and families to suck our time. I'm kind of too lazy and busy to keep involved socially with folks I like, so I don't see lots people I'd want to. My bad, I should call Gary up and say hi. I was one of his first customers at the old old place on the sunset hyw 26 before he moved to SE, and tweaked my finger tendons good enough (bad enough) that I didn't understand it (ie, go to Squamish, with my fingers almost healed and jump out of the car and run up a 5.10d first thing, do lots and lots of pitches pain free - then come back and 15 min in the rock gym they're f*ed bad and in agony again) - so I stayed away to have healthy hands. Last year a couple of partners kept inviting me to work out at gyms they inhabited (Stoneworks and Milf-ville) so I tried it again, I really enjoyed myself. Joesph H was talking about doing a gym this winter to stay in shape and I was thinking that was a good idea as he's good company and we can do the over 50 routes together (if your over 50 years old, hobble over there old man and pull the big holds) . But it is shocking and encouraging to see some kid walk straight out of the gym getting up hard stuff, and at 50 I need the exercise. You sound like a reasonable person Thrill, wonder if you have discussed these gym issues with Gary at all?

Can't speak to the rest of your post Thrill - but Gary is a great guy. He brought the 2nd rock gym ever done in the country to Portland Oregon, with risk to himself both financially and professionally. Gary Rall is an AWESOME person. END OF F*EN STORY -PERIOD .

How about that cover piton? I think I have that one in my basement somewhere. Haven't had time to do anything but look at the cover. Ethics issue? Thought those discussions ended in the 80's everywhere but on this board? None of the new climbers know for ethics.

Good call Shapp, the only serious choss you missed may be the Honeycombs. (Perhaps it was intentional) - long assed drive for rock that was like Smith before Smith was Smith. IE, you have to clean the shit off the route yourself. Danny Gates or Steve Strauch told me (see what a name dropping bastard I am) that the rock on Superslab was very very loose, and it rained down with every step when they first went up there: now look at it. Hope your leg getting better Shapp (just in time for the winter rains?) Iain and Nolse, not sure why the anger, hey dudes, it's OK, cleansing breaths and calmness ....................................serenity........serenity....... It's not an either or: the board needs both, everyone likes Iain's posts, he make us laugh and sometimes they are very informative as well: just look at the cat spinning the disks on his avatar-hmmmm, don't know if thats specificially informative...hmmmmm. Hey, don't look at mine, we're not talking about that right here. POLEEEAAASSSSSEEE! I don't believe I've seen Iain pissed yet, so this is pretty serious:- always enjoy his restraint and humor, proving once again that if you hang around here long enough, you get contact internet anger...........apparently. Just a reminder that some of the best climbing in Oregon happens to be in Washington. See all the Beacon posts the Oregon cascades section if you doubt this. I'm surprised the Wahingtonions take it lying down: I think it because there's so much good shit up there, they didn't see the hijacking coming, or don't care just because they have so much and are being gracious to us impoverished Oregonians. Shapp, if your foot is better-would you just go do that cliff by Enterprise and tell us about it? Better take Ireno with you or you'll never hear the end of it.

Welcome back Greg?

I wish you handn't have done that Jordon, I won't be sleeping well. http://www.billcoe.com/

Is it because someone put up a new stoutpiece in Toulome at 12B with a handdrill? So......what are you saying Mr.Llama? No Washington climber can hand drill? I'm not trying to argue, just curious.

Of course:at 90 you are in 3rd gear. Really are, if you are squirling it up anyway.

I clicked all 3 choices. Like many on this site: the precise inference is wholly dependant on if I am Male PMS'ing.

And be prepared for a "no lubrication" moment. Good luck. If it works out OK for ya, share your secrets with us!

Wheres Waldo? Thanks to Dru for the seal link, it sounds real good till you concepualize carrying on of those stiff bloody things on the airplane under your arm. Might be an issue stuffing on the overhead as well. Hey, I digress, the next story on that seal link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3713360.stm " WAR ZONES Greg is planning a trip to Sudan. He hopes to be able to take in Darfur, the war-torn region where up to 50,000 have been killed and thousands more face starvation in refugee camps. Refugees in Darfur Thousands have died in Darfur in recent months "Anyone been in the past month or two?" he asks visitors to the chatroom of comebackalive.com, a source of help for those travellers who find Lonely Planet and the likes a bit pedestrian. Fortunately for Greg someone is able to suggest "bumming a ride" with one of the charities in Darfur. But he should bear in mind that aid workers can be reluctant to take unknown guests as they try to "keep relations with the various governments and militias on a good footing". Travel journalist Simon Calder is aghast. "Simply by turning up in Darfur you can't be helping the aid workers," he says. But while he suggests the "voyeurism" of some visitors to recent war zones is in poor taste, those who go with a genuine desire to see an area really can help. "I'm very impressed by people who go to places that were once off limits, like Central America," he says. "That strikes me as model tourism, because you're really helping people and there's no significant danger." It may not be everyone's idea of a nice break, but tourists have already been enjoying unspoilt Afghanistan. Phil Haines of Live Travel returned with a group two weeks ago and says there was an "excellent reaction from local people, especially in the villages". Others are cautiously eyeing Iraq as the next destination. One group's tentative trip there last October was spoilt only by an embassy bombing and seeing a mob beat a man to death. "

I did a search for GregW and he has never existed. ______________________________________________________________________ We have always been at war with Oceana