billcoe

Off, re: your sig, pitcher or catcher? _________________________________________________ I'm just saying that no one up here has even figured out how to start the discussion process - thats how F*ucked up we are. Maybe we should outsource this discussion to India or Mexico. Cya, I'm off to the shoe forum.

Corvallis: we have not been able to form a consensus up here in PDX on all the hot bolting issues which in some ways are very similar to your issue (retro-bolting of existing routes), so offering you what should be done in your area seems a bit presumptious since it all like herding cats up here (and you can't even find the cats either, you just see the footprints). We've both heard all the arguements: ie, "if they feel they have the right to just show up and stick in a bolt on an existing route, then you have the same right- or even more so to yank it blah blah blah........." all the way to this one, "Well, you shouldn't yank them cause it might damage the rock blah blah blah"...TO "Just contact them and talk it over blah blah blah". None of us has ever seen your area I suspect. I think that you need to do what YOU think is the right thing and it will all work out. Good luck:

One time, when I was in the 6th grade, we were living up on the Clackamas River by Fish Creek, 7 miles or so above Premonitory dam. As was our style, one time my brothers and I went for an extended difficult hike into uncharted terrain that involved crossing the Clackamas to the unpopulated and remote side and bushwhacking up a gully, which looked wild and wooly. It was a long drawn out thick brush affair, at one spot high up we hit a cliff so big that we had to head back down the small creek we were following and exit the valley via a bush-grabbing extremely steep and difficult circuitous reach-around movement to avoid the cliff and gain the upper drainage. Hours later on the upper creek, feeling like we are walking where no man had ever gone before, our reverie was broken by a splash, which I instantly recognized as a frog. Having been raised catching Leopard frogs by the bucketful (and the odd bullfrog or tree frog), and being a kid and all; I pounced and caught the creature. It was scarlet red. The entire frog. We knew of the (poisonous) Red Frogs of South and Central America, and felt that we had seen, and caught a new species of creature in this isolated canyon. We voted: I wanted to take it to town and have the discussion with a scientist or 2 to see if it was a new and unique species or just a variation of and existing Frog. (like an albino is the same species except different color). My older and wiser (7th grade) brother's viewpoint won out in the end after a long discussion. He felt that in it's rarity and uniqueness; we needed to be stewards and not disruptors of the earth. If it was a rare frog, we could potentially wipe out the species if we even removed this single frog. As we didn't know for sure if this was the case -or not- we were charged with doing the responsible thing and leave the environment as little disturbed as possible. My little brother was a 4th grader and took no position. Practicality won out for me in the end. I realized that 2 hands were needed to get out of there safely. So the red frog was spared and left in peace. I have not seen or heard of a Red Frog species in the United States. Perhaps this was the only one. That's as close to a giant shrimp story that I have. Later, as a parent, I realized that it is about as unusual to have a parent treat us in that manner my mom did, as it would be to have a 5' shrimp in the laundry room. Mom kept unbelievably tight tabs on us in the city every second of the day. It was painful. "Where are you and when you coming back" kind of things: always. Living outside of the city it was reversed, "hey mom we'll be gone today", we'd point at a far distant peak to indicate we'd be hiking that general direction and head out the door without any of the 10 essentials, coats or even a canteen. More than once we found ourselves drinking out of ditches or jumping a fence to steal cherries to ward off heat stroke. Traveling through Arches N. Monument in 1966 or so and camping in the Moab area, we found all kinds of interesting and dangerous things to climb. Once yelling at mom from about a 200 foot high cliff and for once scaring her on how close to the edge we were. Another climb we jumped the 20 feet vertical feet to the ground which we'd managed to get up, and some other kids who had mistakenly followed us up got stuck on the rock, fearing to make the jump. We'd come back dragging in all manner of creatures we'd captured on our forays, and they always were allowed into the house as pets including a black widow spider (which stayed until it gave birth and the can it was living in mysteriously disappeared), snakes, lizards, various rodents, insects, birds and even scorpions which competed with the rest of the standard pet menagerie. I suspect that 5-foot shrimp-like creature you mention would have been allowed in too.

Goldenshower: I like the duodess too, but it's spendy. I noticed that 2 of the ropes you listed were Edelrid ropes. I've always like the handling properties of them, but won't buy another one until they FUCKING DYE THE MIDDLE INSTEAD OF PUTTING A FLIMSY PIECE OF CRAP TAPE THERE THAT LASTS FOR 2.5 RAPS. It is more than conveinance, lots of accidents happen cause somebody got tired or distracted and missed it. I'm 100 percent serious. Guess you could buy the Bluewater rope marker and do that as well. But that's me. FYI, 2 points. I think Lanex ropes are the very best I've ever used. Ever. Metolius is marketing them as monster ropes and they cost more than I want to pay currently. Next) REI.com has a sale rope I am unfamiliar with: = $109 for a PMI brand 60 meter. Cheaper than the US 138.15 for the last Edelrid rope you mentioned and very similar specs. rope sale I almost always buy the sale rope, my last one was a Mammut 10.2 at REI that came WITH a rope bag for $100. I'd look hard at this one unless the freight ate up the savings. Good luck, make sure it has a good middle mark:

Never having snowmobiled in my life, but have seen lots whizzing by whilst sking or snowshowing, I'm surpised to find myself saying that although snowmobilers have a different love of the outside: the ones I've bumped into have all been really fine people who would be the first in line to bail my funky ass (or yours) out of any jam my dumb ass got itself into.

Yup. Somebody recently took 1 of the hangers off of AC-DC, although for years it had nothing. Just took 1 single hanger and left the stud and the other bolt/hanger combo just fine. I'm not putting another one on there as it works OK just the way it is if you back it up with a sling off the tree. Anyway, probably could fill a full thread with grousing and bad Juju (don't get John started about Loni's car/visa theft, I think they were using the card before he even got back to his rig) . On the bright side, there are really less used hypodermic needles and used condoms. Seriously. And less porn too ever since that guy fell off the top near ranger rock and died with his pants around his ankles. Jim and Glen said they later met the guys friends out there, and when they told how they had found their dead friend and the pants and all, the friends said that the guy liked to go out ther and pleasure himself at the top of the cliff right there. Probably just got into it too much. Bizarre. _____________________________________________ Seconds until next sheep or Enumclaw post: 3..........2.............1.......

Hi Hemp, come out tonight eh? Matt, that's a great idea, I hadn't thought of it. I already have the ss bolts.... hmmmmmm.... To answer hemp: the first route on the buttress was 100 percent gear. (so an anchor on top may be construed as a suprufulous pussyness add-on by others). The others are yet to be done, and may be 100 percent gear depending on what happens.... still need to finish cleaning the lower Buttress. I just noticed Sunday that the very best handholds @ 1/2 way up on the next route over (yet to be done) is in fact just a huge loose flake. I'm only @1/3 down on the far Eastern side cleaning, and there is a schweet looking hard thin crack up high on the left and an wide easy 5.8ish chimmey thing that I climb up in my tennis shoes to get off the cliff right next to it which you could drop a 8 or 9 hex in for pro where it starts in the middle of the cliff, but lower down (still dirty so who can really say) it looks like 40' of slab on the east side, and possibly a discontinous crack directly below/off to the side a bit. There are still some killer rocks (real killers, not using killer for "good" which I got most off already) and of course, approx half a ton of dirt left. This isn't prime territory. Glens route will be 100 percent bolts. Real clean.

Will, we'll look for you. It's not a far walk in either case. I suspect well be further down the road than the first pull out. Jaben, I try to get out of here before 4:45-5. I'd like to carpool, except for couple of things, 1st, I live in North PDX and the Beaverton commute is from work. But, I go visiting relatives directly after climbing, and the time off work thing is somewhat flexable, I might have to work till 6, or I might be able to blow out of here at 4 (unusual) ...sooo, carpooling isn't the best thing.

Gladly Will, If you want to post your phone number here, people can call and try to co-ordinate as they head up the hill or get near, maybe meet the bus your on somewhere on 82nd for instance. Wasn't somebody willing to drive by and pick you up? (I'm coming from Beaverton in rush hour and won't get there till @ 5:45-6 so I'd be out for that job) My mobile is 503-869-5772

Rocky Butte question/thread. Rocky Butte new route/bolt opinion solicitation page, please click the link here and check this out.

Hi, Some of you know I spend part of the winter skiing my ass off, and on those few days where my kid didn't drag me to the mountain, started some cleaning projects at Rocky Butte. Jim Robinson named the area I've been working "Bill's Buttress", and I kind of like that. It's about 50 steps west of Video Bluff, just past that faint 4th class desent trail, before you get to Dream Weaver. The first of perhaps 5 routes with a few more variations has been done, and I want to put in bolts with chains at the top. I plan on using top quality 316 stainless steel bolt and chains. I want to solicit people’s opinions about this. I have been informally asking the occasional stranger or 3 I've bumped into out there and have heard no objections, yet. Typically and historically the person who does the FA gets flat fiat to make these choices. I'm pretty sure that Joe Parsley didn't want bolts at the top of Vertical Therapy, he didn't put any in, and the single bolt which showed up the next year got whacked soon after it was plugged in and the ugly stud is still there 20 years later for viewing. I don't want that. I had put some anchor bolts/hangers in at the top of a couple of Mike Pajunas routes once and they lasted less than month before they were chopped. But we're not talking about adding bolts to an exisitng route which had no bolts for years. I want to do this once and do it right. I won't put anything in the Buttress area until it's clean and the loose rocks are off, which may be quite a while. You can ask Acacia how clean it is, but it’s a work in progress to be sure. What moved my timetable up is that Glen invited me out this weekend to bolt the route he just finished cleaning immediately to the right of Superman: so now this question needs to be asked openly. If you feel uncomfortable having this discussion and revealing your identity publicly, I would urge you to get a fake mail.com address or something (if you want to be anonyomys) and email me at Billcoe@gmail.com, I want input. I just don't want to put in some bolts and chains just to have them ripped out in 20 min. For Glens little route, having bolts there, with chains and a rap station on top, would be a huge improvement for many reasons: getting down easily and safely off of Superman and Glens Route as the sun sets is just one of them. As it's a brand new route, should Glen and I be able to choose doing this as an option? My special question: are there any objections? If so, what are they? I've run into people who got pissed that older route which never had any bolts had new bolts added, and I understand that argument. That’s not what is being discussed here. These are new routes. No flames please no matter what is said, everybody’s viewpoint is valid (even if you're wrong ). As I realize that probably less than 20 percent of people who climb out there are online, let’s have the discussion in person as well. PS, this question is for local people who actually climb there, not necessarilly Canadians or people named ofter furry water creatures who just want to pipe up with a joke that doesn't add to the discussion.

Me too. I think Will Strickland will be there, and has noted that he hasn't climbed for 18 months or some damn thing. What do you all think of Silver bullet and making sure the easier stuff is set up? (Superman, Jack of Hearts, and Midnight Warrior-the 5.8 corner to the R of Fandango) If we have enough ropes we can also do Glens route to the right of Superman, and all the regular standards.

Looks like Uday Hussein: after the troops were finished. Nice photoshop Tex.

Toss that in Drus face! And still a "wanker"? Thread revival skills are right up there with the greats! Bill

Well, I suspect that the Gov't is trying to regulate that industry now as well then. They take all the fun out of things. Back to the grindstone for me. Seriously, if somebody on this site is sending death threats (and this isn't your girlfriends husband just having the usual issues ), give somebody, at least Jon, a heads up and they'll be history.

Willstrickland Johnfrieh Will sounds like he might appreciate some easier stuff. Is he going to be there? If no, I have all kinds of aches and pains (teenage son and basketball are a bad combo) and might just take a nap instead.

What area are you folks thinking??

Tracks could have been bigfoot ?

That roofing shovel stuffed into that hole up at the butte was not booty. I want it back. Just put it back in the hole and no one gets hurt.

Good stuff! Thanks for sharing.

This is good stuff dude! Real good. Not sure what all of it meant though, but can tell it's good: For instance: btw: I was in Germany for a bit, and I think that "Der Kindermord-Wand" might actually translate to "Dead Children wall". You haven't been locked in a closet watching "The Shining" on continous loop again have you?

That sums it up for the rest of us as well. Damn.

You must have moved over to crack warrior after running laps on Phylynx: didn't see you. Sean and I dug. If anybody finds a short handled roofing shovel out there, it's mine. If you see any climber running around with a new (used) roofing shovel- it could very likely have been stolen from me. Please let me know, or ask them to return it to where they stole it from.

Johhhnnnnnnnyyyy!!!!!!!!!!! Sean and I should be there @ 9. I need to bag out at 3pm or so to do mothers day dinner with family. 503.869.5772

Will dude- we'll absolutly be there to give you a belay until you cry uncle and beg for mercy, but tell your cheap assed company to pony up some money for a car! I think the 82nd ave bus will do you right, I know a couple of people who do the bus thing sucessfully, but you might get lucky and hook a ride too. Ujahn lives in West Linn, I'll check with him, but he usually just drives to the butte from whereever his job is, which could be anywhere. Stick with Nolse, he'll take care of you. Post on the alpine anoynomys thread to troll for a ride on the days you need it. I will most likely be there Tue/Thus, but could change that around to give you a belay if needed. ps, gear: shoes and harness is plenty. Well fix you up with the rest, and you can boulder too if you'd like.