billcoe

Perhaps you can find an example of a widely armed population having a civilian goverment being overthrown by a junta or military for me?

link You see stuff like this come and go. " As many as six South American regimes took part in the joint campaign to hunt down and kill their left-wing opponents." Later as civilian unrest widens, so does the killing as a way in which the authorities are able to maintain power throught terror. In countries where a junta is shunted aside and a democracy installed, another junta will often show up later. Easily created where a power vacumn has formed due to the lack of a widespread armed popluation.

Not true. Maybe you can name a country with univeral weapons ownership that has had issues? Perhaps you are thinking of places having a civil war, maybe Nicarcua when the US was supplying one side, or El Salvador. The government of Guatamala was able to terroise the population and murder thousands of innocent civilians because only the govenment had weapons. They are still digging up people in Chili, Ecuador and Brazil due to similar circumstances. Some of those countries have some, but not even close to all, opposition armed, Uruguay and Peru: for instance, which causes a whole differnet set of problems with normal - not able to get armed -people getting slaughtered by both sides. The shining path in Peru has weapons, but they are running around a country devoid of them outside of the military. The sides doing the slaughtering know that the side with the most effeicient and biggest weapons will rule the country. And control the media too. Which is why they don't want assholes like us having weapons.

Any resemblance between moi and Jefferson or Hamilton is purely coincidental. However: it seems to me, in observing other countries as Juntas develop, if you control the weapons, then later controlling the media and speech is an easy thing - and not the reverse. Joni Mitchell: " You don't know what you got till it's gone".

Although I appreciate the thought, you thankfully haven't heard the embarrasing stories of my crazy anti-social bad bar behavior during the 2003-2004 pub club season. These stories generally start with me not getting a refill and soon enough it goes rapidly, unexpectedly and loudly downhill from there. There are people who use to post here who won't drink with me anymore. ________________________________________________________ Other club member: "Please stop whistling at the waitress". Me (leaning forward across the beer soaked table to make Robert Deniro eyecontact): "Are you F*ckin talkin to ME?!! Bad I'm sayin....

Discuss

What Mark said, and if he's up for the 11a you mention and it's too cool for Gandolfs (on the north face in the shade) , put Supersition on top of yer list, full on sun and sweet route. Maybe it will be dusted off and cleaned up again and I'll have a shot at it later in the year. (Re: gear for this one, small wireds help) Good route.

The New York Times The New York Times Member Center * NYTimes: * Home - * Site Index - * Archive - * Help Free Exclusive Online Access to The New York Times Get Free Access Register for NYTimes.com. • Breaking news and award winning multimedia • New York Times newspaper articles • Arts & Dining reviews • Online Classifieds It's free and it only takes a minute! Log In Now Member ID or E-Mail Address: Password: Forgot Your Password? Remember me on this computer. * Copyright 2007 * The New York Times Company | * Privacy Policy | * Contact Us ____________________________________________________________ Thats what I get. Looks like the link is Chickensh*t now Dru:-)

Nice Wirlwind, did you write that?

opps, nevermind

Oh crap, dude just turned 63 too and I spaced it. Pretty decrepit., old, wrinkly, mature interesting. He's going to the valley with us soon, I'll try and snap a pic or 2. I think most of us are at or close to the half century mark. Must be the "geriatric tour". Dave Hardin and Victor will meet us there, Dave's retired, Victor has grey hair. At least if I hang on Serenity I'll have an excuse now (haven't ever hung yet, but it's coming I'm sure). I can say "I'm 52, which sounds better in my mind than "I'm a weak tired pusssyyyyyy"

Holy shit. 6? Wow, wish I could help you figure it out. I didn't have any idea......6? Wow. Good luck.

Great, so it's John, Troy, Ujhan and me so far. Anyone else need to finish ripping some ligaments or tearing some muscles now's the time to do it. This is my first time out to the Butte this year.

Yes, do I provide those now and can you pre-approve them so that they are not exposed to ridicule in advance? _______________________________________________________________ That's what the late Timothy McVey thought and proved too. The founding fathers thought both were important. (whos got the pagetop now Dru?)

dunno

That what will never change? Who you talkin too? You bet, and that arguement has been used quite sucessfully as well to show that the media can and should be restrained especially in their active depiction of violence, which is ruinous to society and has been proven to cause more violence. Nobody is saying that the media should be banned or regulated, rather that it should have the most eggresious abuses which they repeatedly display checked a little. To obsensiously tighten up and improve our society just a bit: only the most eggrious books should be banned. Maybe responsible people like yourself can register to check them out with a special permit after a background check. Not all books or all media. Remember that the biggest amount of people murdered via a domestic terroism act were not killed by guns anyway. By ideas picked up from the internet. That's what we learned from Tim McVey. He learned how to make a bomb. After all, don't you agree that only a criminal would object to having to register with the police or ask to keep them out of his house, and only unpatriotic Jews would refuse to register and wear the pretty yellow stars..... Right, what's the big deal? We can and should fix society so that we are all safe.

Please note that Jelf didn't ask you to discuss this endlessly like squirels in a tree. Jelf: Try this to start: tradgirl.com link But, for some areas - tricams SUCK. However, in some they rule. You need to look at what people are carrying near you when you climb. Here's my list of things I like (buy what you like and spend the extra cause whey buy it twice? (reposted) DMM belay devices and wired nuts HB offset and RP brass nuts Misty Mountain harness's (I have a Cadillac and a Sonic). Trango superlight lockers rule for small lockers Wild Country Heliums are the Lamborghinis of biners Dmm makes a great Munter style locker too which is very light so I try and have 1 or 2 on me. Aliens to Orange Offset Metolius TCU's and offset Aliens (later for you, don't worry about these now) BD Camalots from Green up. I also have the extended range Trangos which I like, but make sure they are cranked down when you stuff them in the cracks. Metolius cams in that sweet middle range too. (if you look at some of the BD "climbers" you often see Metolius cams on their racks, interesting no? Wild Country technical friends for the large sizes #2 Omega Pacific cams are great for people who don't climb a lot like moi. Shoes that fit. Trango shark and Ushba titanium nut tools Chouinard adjustable gear rack or Metolius double gear sling for carrying all that rack. Ropes: Lanex (called the Metolius Monster ropes now) are the best in the world, I love the feel, but don't want to pay that price. So I buy what's on sale and now have 4 or 5 good ropes from 9.1 -11 mil for various routes. When I started, I tried to buy the pieces which would accentuate my partners meager racks. We climbed on all nuts (with an occasional pin). You should consider those you are climbing with as well IMO. Yes I'm a gear whore. This doesn't even begin to describe it, I'd start with that stuff up there, try and see if you can find someone using it and see if you like it. Ask them what they like about it.... I have so much stuff I have not listed: Valley Giants, Toucans, grappling hooks, Big Bros, Leeper cams (love those), Aiders, Hammers, Rurps, hangers, bolts and bolting gear every piton made blah blah and more useless things than I can comprehend.....:-) My wife will have a hell of a yard sale when I die. _________________________________________________________________ Speaking of yard sales, you might just start here it's last gen stuff but so what, sell it when you've used it a few seasons and are ready to replace it, it was world class state of the art just a bit ago. (currently just posted in "gear sales", like 6-8 thread sdown the list): "These pretty much cover a full size range: Metolius FCU #10 $35 Forged Friend #3.5 $15 Forged Friend #4 $15 Black Diamond 2 (notc4) $30 Black Diamond .75(olderstyle) $25 Black Diamond .75(Brand New w/Tag, not c4) $40 Black Diamond .3 $30 HB FlexCams 0 $20 HB Flexcams 00 $20 also have 2 BD ATC $10 each All pieces are in good to brand new condition, have been well cared for, etc. I'd love to sell it all in one deal... email: tbrugh at u.washington.edu or PM" ______________________________________________________________-- Used gear deal link

ABSOLUTLY!

Newsweek, Time, US News and World Reports, The Economist, Fine Woodworking..... BTW, I'm not going to detail how seditious and counterproductive the press truly is as it would take wayyyyy too much time. Without a closet full of Glocks, a free press is easy to control. Think about it. The big point is, there is good with the bad on both of these forum agenda items/points of history and law. For me, I really would rather have a free press and weapons in every damn closet in the US, and the problems which come with both, than sacrifice my freedom for a small increase in "percieved" safety. But thats me. Some people use to argue that concentration camps were a positive benefit for society in Germany. And that's them. They were able to control the weapons, the press and the population using many of the arguements you all are using here. Freedom my friends, is not free. Freedom.

Thurs, 6pm Rocky Butte if it's dry. Maybe Birds, W - Rabbitt? OK Head count?

It could be sucessfully argued that it would be better to get the press under control. Great strides could be made in limiting the amount of copycats doing crazy shit once we get the 1st amendment overruled and forgotten as well/ the right of a "Free Press" to publish whatever the F*k they want wrecks havok on many levels and causes much unhappiness and social unrest. Add that to your list of things needed to pacify society and make it a more peaceful world in your march towards bliss.

sweet stuff dude.

The reform rate for Sexual crimes is very low. I noticed that the story said he was a "convicted sex offender ". Since he wasn't convicted this time, it's safe to say this is from a previous time. " Hinson was convicted of raping a 12 year old girl in 1991". Safe to say that for times like these, we as taxpayers should pony up additional money and keep jackasses like this locked up. Something which the jury was not probably exposed to. BUT, the system will try and find other ways to grind this jackass down and watch his ass. Story said: "He said they made up the story so they would be able to take drugs from the underground room, which he used to store marijuana." Any bets on how many years he gets for the marijuana charges?

I think that crack is called "Getting Schooled". The one to the left may be "Getting Tooled by Oly", and of course, the ever popular "Taun-Taun Direct". Grrrrrrrrr