billcoe

That just sounds like a regular climbing trip there bug.

I have a system for runners: write my name on one side and the year on the other. Started doing it for ropes too, witht he date on the end. One day your just sitting there fiddling with your stuff, and see a '91 on the damn thing and you're thinking....hummmmm, I thought I just bought this the other day, but sure enough you start working the math, get a calculator out and are shocked to see that when you plug in 2007-1991 you actually get 16 years. The damn thing shockingly aged on you. I just had that happen to some brand new skinny slings that I wrote '04 on. 3 years may be time to retire them perhaps. The data is fuzzy on those skinny guys.

I copied Kirstens post in events and put it here as the rope up discussion is about to inundate it there. "SALE!SALE!SALE! Climb Max Mountaineering is having a customer appreciation party and sale! Saturday October 13th, 10am - 10pm. Big discounts on climbing gear, music, free beer and more!! We will be showing a film about the Portland climbing scene by local climber Juan Rodriquez. Call if you have questions 503.797.1991. See you there! Cheers! "

Is it me or does this appear to be spray, despite the post being placed in the climbing forum?

OK Feck, maybe not, bit of a rush to judgment on my part:-). But just so you know, I will point out that in the winter when the hard cold bitter winds are howling thorough that wind tunnel that is the gorge and the rock and moss is still epic wet, shockingly cold and freezing, while the night owls coo softly in the lonely still of the night as the Scorpions lay curled in deep hibernation, Joseph (and Ivan too sometimes but especially Joseph) will go out there and rope solo 5.9-5.10 by himself while pussies such as myself are home curled up by the fire. As he's even older than me (I'm 53 next month), well, I don't have any excuses. Feck that's especially why your statement above that if Joseph didn't like the NW weather he can get out seemed a wee bit wrong. I'm hoping that we have a wet cold one this year as it's the last year my son and I will be burning up the slopes all winter.

I heard that she won the fight. What music did she chose?

Those dudes all had to soil themselves over that one. BTW, on the not so funny playing field: the Iranians (purchased from the Chinese) have a supersonic shore to ship missile which the US has still not developed an effective response too. ie, it will sink a US ship every time they fire it, and there's not a DAMN thing we can do about it except either complain or try to find them all and preemptively take them out first.

Thats soooo funny!

It seems to me that a substantive conversation would include whether these people should be doing this AT ALL. Not if the people doing it to us are necessarily good or bad. This thread is the CC.com equivalent of Mr Cheswick saying "I want MY cigarettes, Nurse Ratched! I ain't no little kid! You can't hand just them out like candy. I want MY CIGARETTES!"

Bryon, that sounds like a name you'd dream up, so this an FA you guys just did? Nice line too. Nice pictures btw, and sorry you ran out of juice, I'd like to see some old bolt pics! Looks like an awesome route.

The original Panama - Dork defined:

It didn't rain. In fact it was near awesome. There were about 18-23 folks there today, and unlike last year where I felt young (I'm 53 next month), these all looked like real climbers (pretty much thin, young and hardbodied, with moi as an exception to that). Kellie did a great job of co-ordinating everything and as usual represented well for the access fund, Keith Dellenbach was there too, and a gentle reminder not to climb at Madrone till it opens was re-stated. The highlight was not the needles Darren from ClimbMax and his buddie Josh (?) nabbed, nor the usual condoms and flish-flash trash like the top of a coin operated washing machine Geoff and Kyle nabbed, nor the money Dan Forrester handed me for some gear I'd sold him (I'd already forgot about it ). No, the highlight of the day was standing back with the bros and seeing the place relatively clean afterwards! ClimbMax did a barbeque on top afterwards, and I put out there that a great combo for me (as they are having their big sale next week at their gear store) would be if next year they combined the cleanup, with the barbeque AT THEIR STORE AND A SALE AT THE SAME TIME! . It would be easier logistically for them, not just that Kirsten and lil Kenny can stay dry, but that old F*s (like me) can Stay WARM. Lots of folks like myself tend not to be in town on weekend days: but will often give up a day out for a cleanup, although we won't stay in town for just a sale, even when the store so richly deserves my support like they do. Combing the 2 may make more sales for them, their life easier, and the trash pickup crew could stay warmer. Last year it started raining just as the barbeque started. If that happened in the ClimbMax parking lot, well, they have a covered porch, and all that gear inside to go look at (drool) and buy. Maybe if they need it, we can help them pull this off logistically next year. So a good time it was - thanks to everybody.

Joseph and Ivan put a second pitch on Rhythm Method Joseph calls Rhythm Walk as it heads up and left over where a second pitch of Boardwalk should be or would be, if it wasn't so loose. Interesting that the 1st ascent of Rhythm Method was well over 20 years ago, and about every climber at Beacon, as they have walked right past this corner to get to the superb south side routes, has seen this line, and yet it lasted until now when Joseph finally cranked it. BTW, I took a shot at it traversing in from Boardwalk @ 20 plus years ago to gain the upper dihedral there, the rusty bolt just as you are about to turn the corner was mine. I got stopped by the loose plates, one of which Joseph utilized to chop his rope. Joseph came in from the other direction and found a way through the maze....somehow. Anyway, as those guys undoubtedly are cleaning it now, I suppose this will go the way of all those routes. Starts out at about 5.11 and once the blocks are yanked, the choss and moss is tossed, and the cracks cleaned out well winds up ohhhh -maybe 5.9:-) Hopefully those guys show up with a full report and some pics. It was suppose to be raining out there today an they're hard at it. (I did the Butte cleanup today thinking it would rain an needing to rest an elbow injury). I spent a bit of time belaying up there for Joseph and can attest to the fact that dude is a damn tenacious climber when in full on lead on the choss in the wilderness mode! Maybe later I'd better tell how I managed the difficult, nay, near improbable feat of bagging both of the first ascents of Rhythm Method's first pitch:-) Its sort of funny, but embarrassing at the same time as the second first ascent involved retrobolting the line without the First Ascentionist's knowledge. Meantime, bigtime congrats to both Joseph and Ivan for grabbing the full-meal deal winter rock stoke.

Better brace yourself then panther. As in: Tom & Mel went moose hunting every winter without success. Finally, they came up with a foolproof plan. They got a very authentic female moose costume and learned the mating call of a female moose. The plan was to hide in the costume, lure the bull, then come out of the costume and shoot the bull. They set themselves up on the edge of a clearing, donned their costume,moved into their tent and began to give the moose love call. Before long, their call was answered as a bull came crashing out of the forest and into the clearing. When the bull was close enough, Tom said, “Okay, lets get out and get him.” After a moment that seemed like an eternity, Mel shouted, “The zipper is stuck! What are we going to do!?” Tom says, “Well, I’m going to start nibbling grass, but you’d better brace yourself.” It looks like the moon and stars are lining up in a big way for our country and countrymen for what Dylan writes: "and it's a hard rain, is gonna fall".

What a coincidence, thats what kept Rush out of the military too. lINK Draft Notice Claim: Talk radio host Rush Limbaugh was disqualified from the Vietnam-era draft due to a pilonidal cyst. Status: True. Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2002] There are similar stories [of avoiding service in Vietnam] about almost every other prominent right wing Republican of recent vintage. Newt Gingrich, ex-Speaker of the House, went the Cheney route [of obtaining deferments]; Kenneth Starr, Clinton's legal nemesis, had psoriasis; Jack Kemp, Dole's running mate in 1996, was unfit because of a knee injury, though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback for another eight years; Pat Buchanan had arthritis in his knees, though he soon became an avid jogger. The best story concerns Rush Limbaugh, the ferociously bellicose radio personality, who allegedly had either "anal cysts" or an "ingrown hair follicle on his bottom". It is not my custom to mock others' ailments, but anyone who has listened to Limbaugh's programme can imagine the dripping scorn he would bring to the revelation that a prominent Democrat had skipped a war over something like that. Also, in his case, a pain in the arse is peculiarly appropriate.1 Origins: Vitriolic "hawk vs. dove" debates are a standard feature of modern American politics whenever war is in the offing. Generally pitting Republicans against Democrats, the argument (at its lowest level) boils down to hawks criticizing doves as cowards who don't understand the military because they never served in it and are too timid about using military force, while the doves maintain that their detractors are cowardly hypocrites who avoided military service themselves while others fought the wars they advocated. From the latter side comes the term "chickenhawk," defined (by The New Hampshire Gazette, which maintains a Chickenhawk Database) as "a term often applied to public persons who tend to advocate, or are fervent supporters of those who advocate, military solutions to political problems, and who have personally declined to take advantage of a significant opportunity to serve in uniform during wartime." As men in their 50s — men of America's "Vietnam generation" — are now the most predominant figures in American politics at a national level, service in the Vietnam War is a "litmus test" issue that comes up often in political debate. And since talk radio host Rush Limbaugh is one of the most popular media proponents of the conservative political viewpoint and has been a vociferous critic of a young Bill Clinton's efforts to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, it's not surprising that the question of Limbaugh's own military status should be a common one. When Rush Limbaugh first came of draft age he held a 2-S (college deferment) Selective Service System classification as a student at Southeast Missouri State University in 1969-70, but after he dropped out of college at the end of his first year he no longer qualified for a student deferment and was subject to being reclassified as 1-A (available immediately for military service) and drafted. Selective Service System records show that Limbaugh was reclassified as 1-Y (qualified for service only in time of [declared] war or national emergency) on 24 November 1970, which effectively ended his draft eligibility and ensured that he would not be called for service. What was the basis of Limbaugh's 1-Y classification? The Selective Service System records still available indicate that the classification was not assigned on psychological or moral grounds, but because of a physical problem. And since there are no records indicating that Limbaugh was ever examined by a physician at an Armed Forces Entrance Examining Station (i.e., he never underwent a pre-induction physical), the 1-Y classification was almost certainly assigned based on a report Limbaugh had his own doctor prepare and submit to his draft board. (No implication that the report was fabricated is intended; the point is merely to note that Limbaugh's deferment was based upon an examination conducted by a private doctor, not one administered by an Armed Services physician.) What was the physical problem that disqualified Rush Limbaugh from the draft? Limbaugh biographer Paul D. Colford notes that: As for Limbaugh himself, the broadcaster stated that he was not drafted during the Vietnam War because he had been classified 4-F after a physical found that he had an "inoperable pilonidal cyst" and "a football knee from high school." He added: "I made no effort to evade it or avoid it."2 (Technically, Limbaugh's classification during his primary year of draft eligibility was 1-Y, not 4-F; he was only reclassified as 4-F after the 1-Y classification was abolished on 10 December 1971.) Which of the two stated medical reasons was the primary one behind Limbaugh's 1-Y classification is difficult to determine directly since individual medical files held by his draft board have long since been destroyed. Some, such as Limbaugh biographer Paul Colford, imply that Limbaugh's knee injury was minor or non-existent: Asked about Limbaugh's "football knee from high school," [Ryland] Meyr, the coach during his lone year of play, said he did not remember any injury.2 However, that Limbaugh did indeed have a pilonidal cyst seems indisputable, as he himself, his mother, and his brother all maintain that he did: Yet, for all his father's patriotism, and deep-rooted fear of Communism, Rusty (Rush) did not enlist to preserve those ideals. The official explanation, David Limbaugh said, is that Rush had a student deferment and, like his father, had a pilonidal cyst on his ass which qualified him for a medical deferment.3 Limbaugh's mother said in 1993 that she did not know if her son had a physical or not, but she added that he did have a pilonidal cyst like his father.2 And a pilonidal cyst was indeed a legitimately disqualifying condition: According to the Military Entrance Processing Command, a pilonidal cyst was then and is today a so-called "disqualifying condition" for induction. It's a congenital incomplete closure of the neural groove at the base of the spinal cord in which excess tissue and hair may collect and cause discomfort and discharge. The malady can be corrected by surgery, but short of that it is viewed by the military as a needless risk amid unsanitary conditions in the field.2 (Limbaugh critics have maintained that his pilonidal cyst was a "simple-to-treat condition" easily corrected through minor surgery, and that it was not a legitimately debilitating condition that precluded his serving in the armed forces but simply an excuse he seized upon to avoid military service.) That the disqualifying condition was a pilonidal cyst and not a bad knee seems to be borne out by Limbaugh's own comments on his draft status: Limbaugh's draft status arose during a 1992 appearance at the 92nd Street YM-YWHA in Manhattan. ABC newsman Jeff Greenfield, acting as moderator . . . posed to Limbaugh a written question from the audience about whether he had ever served in the military. In response, Limbaugh chose his words slowly and cautiously. He seemed to be saying that he had not known ahead of time that whatever physical condition he had in 1970 would free him from draft consideration. "I had student deferments in college and, upon taking a physical, was discovered to have a physical — uh, by virtue of what the military says, I didn't even know it existed — a physical deferment and then the lottery system came along, when they chose your lot by birthdate, and mine was high. And I did not want to go — just as Governor Clinton didn't."2 It's highly unlikely that Limbaugh only "discovered" he had a high school football knee injury several years after the fact or was unaware that a bad knee was reason for a physical deferment, so the pilonidal cyst is the far more probable explanation. (The lottery issue is largely irrelevant since Limbaugh's 1-Y classification precluded his being drafted no matter how high or low his birthdate came up in the lottery. In the event, Limbaugh's birth date was selected 152nd in the 1970 draft lottery, and since the highest lottery number ultimately called for this group was 125, he wouldn't have been drafted in 1971 no matter what his classification.) When asked about this issue nowadays, Limbaugh dismisses it as "Internet BS," as in this excerpt from a transcript of a December 2002 call to his radio program: CALLER: And Rush you never mentioned how you dodged the Vietnam draft. LIMBAUGH: I didn't. CALLER: Yes, you did. You claimed you had a boil on your butt . . . LIMBAUGH: No, you see, that’s part of popular mythology that is out there that I have not whined nor complained about, Greg. But that is just a bunch of internet BS and hyperbole. Never happened. Was not the cause, wasn’t the case. These kinds of responses, provided by Limbaugh on his show and available on the rushlimbaugh.com web site, are unconvincing and dissembling. Why not just give a straightforward answer to the question? After all, "I had a knee injury" is a simple explanation (and hardly an embarrassing one), but dismissing the issue as "Internet BS" and railing against "Internet conspiracy theories" sound too much like the response of someone who is evading the question. Instead, Limbaugh provides non-responsive "answers" when queries are posed by quickly steering the focus away from himself and claiming that "the message is that unless you've been a member of the military, you have no right to support it" (which isn't the message at all — the message is about whether it's hypocritical for those who escaped the draft to criticize others who did) but doesn't address the issue of his own draft status in the least. There is, of course, a huge difference between draft evasion (or "draft dodging") and draft avoidance: The former involves the use of unethical or illegal means (e.g., bribing a doctor to falsify a medical report, fleeing the country) to escape military service; the latter involves taking advantage of established legal means (e.g., college deferments, conscientious objector status) to avoid or delay military service. The issue discussed here is clearly not one of draft evasion, and the matter of who is justified in criticizing whom for not serving in Vietnam is a gray area to be hashed out in the public arena. The only conclusions drawn here are that Rush Limbaugh was ineligible for the draft due to a physical condition, that he had a pilonidal cyst, and that if there's an explanation for his draft status other than the cyst, he has yet to offer it." That and the fact that you both share an aversion to actually serving yet want everyone else to step up.

Not to redirect the conversation away form the absurd little turd bird, but I thought in honor of the last President they were going to adopt the Clinton quarter which Arkansas was using. WTF?

Dude you got Sherpa feet! Damn near as wide as they are long. I'd sure hate to be you trying to find shoes, must just be a big time bitch. Kind of like dudes with size 13 an bigger feet. Sorry I can't help you on your question but ya got my sympathy.

I saw that Dr Mike Layton, Chiropractor, followed through and is now sponsoring some advertising on this site. To those unaware, chiropractic and Layton can do more than "fix" your back when you hurt it. For instance, Mike was in the process of trying to "fix" (via Graston technique-scraping the scar tissue which was causing my fingers to hurt) my finger ligaments (one of the many banes for climbers) when he moved to Seattle for instance. After an evaluation dude gave me some stretching exercises to strengthen a couple of areas which I was totally unaware needed it, exercises which I continue to do. I wanted to reinforce folks belief that professionals and business people who show up here and both give their expertise for free to help others AND also pay to support this site via ads should have our full support. I was appreciative of the dude when he was here in PDX, and thought he could use a post like this as I suspect the payback for the ad money he's putting out is low. Maybe when this thread needs a bump he can come on and post about the kinds of things Chiropractic excels at. (go to the hospital urgency clinic or emergency room to get your broken bones set for instance)

Mike, you serious? Does that not make for a huge change in YOUR attitude and thoughts on this whole thing? My own thoughts have remained consistent, and that is, I opposed the invasion going in a huge way, we were stupid for going in there originally. I consoled myself by thinking that "they" must have a complex, indepth plan for addressing Iran in the endgame. That was only wishful thinking on my part. This group has made some real basic errors. From the very start you see things such as overriding folks like General Shinseki (Chairman of the joint chiefs who was advocating a larger force than Rumsfeld wanted) and then tossing him out of the military like a used Kleenex (as Joseph alluded to above). In my opinion, now, the best course of action going forward is to see this through and bring one of the worlds greatest known reserves of oil out for Americans to rapidly burn in their SUVS. We MUST finish the job. MUST! We have spent the massive national treasure in this "investment." I'm not kidding. I felt that in invading Iraq, we as a country took our eye off the ball which was and remains Nuclear weapon proliferation in several unfriendly or marginal countries (Iran, N. Korea, Pakistan and Syria come to mind, there are others) and the increase of China as a competitor. Love to see fuel conservation happen and the need to go get whipsawed in actions like this disappear. Although I see my fellow citizens changing their thoughts about as fast as they change their underware, I try not to do that myself. However, seeing Bushs recent wholesale rejection of the Baker commissions report has pretty much left me feeling that any failing 3rd grader could do Bush's job better than he could, and I may be wrong on my attitute that staying and finishing the job is the best course of action. Noting Josephs post that we are in a no-win situation, staying or leaving is a losing proposition either way, what do you say? What's your take on the best course of action going forward? BTW, since it hasn't been said yet, thanks for spending the time to edumacate us all, as the news is often a poor source of information as you are aware, viewpoints such as yours take on considerably more importance. Regards

I don't know what you're talkin about, but my advise to all of you is to NOT grow up. Growing up isn't all it's cracked up to be and in fact just sometimes sucks. Sh*t, delay the inevitable all you can.

Nice TR, thank for sharing Pete. Curious, how long did it take you guys, and how did you split up the chores?

Poaching the KINGS deer space on the forest floor, even temporarily, is no laughing matter. Do not go onto the land you own unless you have asked for permission. It's all about control, like the good ranger up there knows. Novel idea: lets take all the petty gov't bureaucrats who live to control all of us and for pushing paper and send all of their tired asses to Iraq. Let them learn what productivity and a real mission is about eh?

Man that's up there. How much money are they losing?

Those are spectacular dude!

Well, I DO have one of those vibrating chairs that has a HEATER and a multi-zone vibrator and a hell of a view of downtown. If you had one of those you might see how difficult it is to leave the house when it's 40 degrees out. Speaking only for myself here as I know you put those pocket warmers in your pockets and keep going right through winter till it either gets ugly beyond belief or someone tells you to stop (cause it's closed now). I think Ujahn wanted to hook up Sat. and finish your new route with you. He's a great belayer, still works on those arcane skills like escaping a belay and can pull 5.11 if he wants, send him up there. I'll blow off the Butte cleanup and take pics if you dudes head out. My elbow feels slightly better too, pretty encouraging, course it could be the Ibuprofen talkin.