Off_White

Give it up Rudy, you can't trump the Gremlin Queen. Now someone help the nice lady out with some garage space, okay?

I've gotten lost on Torment trying to find the S Ridge and done a couple grim pitches in mountain boots, but it was the moss in the fingerlocks on the 5.9 that was the issue not the rock quality. I've also done the usual SE face thing, and that moat problem late season is the crux of the whole deal. I didn't think the upper bit was any worse than lots of other things, though it wasn't worth raving about either. Sounds like it was the moat on the SE Face that got Craig Luebben, its a remarkably nasty thing on what's ostensibly an easy route. Oh, has anyone done the NW Ridge or the N Face? Surely Lowell must have? I've always been curious about those lines, but perhaps not curious enough.

Sweet, that guy found a no hands rest! Oh, and thanks Dru, that was perfect.

You know, I'd been thinking earlier it was a pity Dru wasn't around to weigh in on this important debate, but somehow this wasn't quite the content I was hoping for.

My point is that the spandex boy waxed your ass in that debate.

I looked at that picture from Jackson pretty closely, seems to me that there's 3 or 4 black people in that crowd, and one of them is a cop who's at work, and another is walking away. In a town with a 28% white population, it sure looks like the Teabaggers in Jackson MS are indeed overwhelmingly white.

I've stayed in the bathrooms with a party of five, but that was both midwinter and a long time ago. I've also schlepped up to Glacier Vista to sleep, but that was also winter.

That's terrible, I'm so sorry to hear this.

Funny thing is, most of those arguing against the Dawg & Pope show aren't sport climbers. It's the attitude and not the idea that gets people's backs up. Even Kimmo, the most unabashedly sporty one posting in this thread, is hardly a one trick pony. Any pollster can skew the results based on both the question asked and how it is phrased; that you found someone to agree with your conclusion is not statistically significant. Read any TR's here lately? Seems like this place is dominated by alpine climbers. How was Bears Breast by the way, did you climb it? That long slabby side has always looked appealing.

Set the rules, moderator...establish the boundaries...make an announcement. And while you're at it, you might want to add something about why it's apparently O.K. to ridicule my profession, e.g. call me a "grave robber", on a climbing web-site. "Dude....it's spray, man....anything goes!" Maybe you should get rid of "Spray" altogether, but then there would be no place to dump the ethics "discussions". The only reason anyone ridicules your profession is because you rise to that worm like a big old trout every time it gets tossed in the water. I sincerely doubt Choada or anyone else here has any problem with the study of ancient civilizations, it's just a proven way to poke you with a sharp stick. You respond with pokes at other's jobs as well, so clearly you must consider it all fair game. So no, making fun of someone's day job as a part of arguing is not a nice thing to do. You do things here that aren't nice also, and I know I do as well. Bug's observation that if you post more than twice in spray you're clearly an asshole is probably accurate, and I know he's including himself in that broad statement. We're all jerks sometimes, its just the way it goes. "Nice" is an unenforceable standard in this forum. With regard to the abuse of TR pictures though, that has repercussions beyond Spray, and that is an issue. Some people don't like them, but for most people, the TR's on this site consistently come up as the best content to be found here. That's why we don't want people to spray in TR's or abuse TR photos. We want MORE people to post TR's, of all levels of stuff. Pope's biking TR that included you as a participant was a fine addition to the site, and I most certainly wouldn't stand for anyone to use photos from that TR to ridicule you or Pope. Also, it's generally recognized that civil behavior around here includes removing a photo of someone if the subject of that photo asks you to do so. You've asked me to take down a picture of you from your day job that I used without permission, and I complied. Its come up for other people too, and it usually works out without bringing in any mods. I would hope that would be the case in this thread too. Anyway, there's your announcement from the moderator about how I view these sorts of things. If anyone wants to have a protracted discussion about this, let me know and I'll spawn this off as a separate thread.

No man...when it's about climbing, it's fair game...when it comes to one's personal life, it shouldn't be on the table. I was under the impression that on this site (Cascadeclimbers.com) pulling others trip reports and climbing pictures and putting them in spray to make fun of them was out of bounds. What gives me this impression was the tongue lashing Kevbone got from Porter when he did it not that long ago. ps, did you read my last diatribe Don? I've read all of yours and think I have a good response to you. You're exactly right Bill, though the one I recall was folks using Tvash's photo to make fun of his physique. He's pretty undentable, that one, but I was concerned about the effects on others. I don't care if it's about climbing or not, using people's TR photos to make fun of them in Spray is DEFINITELY NOT OKAY.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I have no idea what you're on about.

That's one of those trips I've wanted to do ever since I got a copy of Alpine Select, thanks for the TR. Sounds like you'd recommend it, eh?

I pretty much put together a new rack over the course of last winter, and I've been pretty pleased with it. Pretty similar to the first response, but it's one set of c3 and one set of master cams, with just one set of WC stoppers plus some Rockcentrics I already had. The RP's, pink & red tricams, and three smallest Chouinard hexes never left the rack, but my mishmash of old cams are hanging up waiting for a trip to Indian Creek or some such things. I've been happy enough with both the brands of small cams, but I've only ever had an amalgam of wired bliss tcu, hb quadcams, tech friends, one alien, and a few other bits as a small cam set, so as much as anything I'm appreciating having a cohesive set that spans a range of sizes. Oh, a pile of new light biners and those skinny skinny slings are sweet additions too. Its the perfect rack, mostly because its mine.

Yes, but still 10x the views behind!

Dane, we gotta get you dialed in for the fine art of scanning that vintage stuff, it's more than worth preserving! Great shots, I just want more.

If you and Choada are the poster children for "pesky sporto-whipper-snappers" then things aren't nearly as grim as people claim. Aren't you both primarily alpinists?

So, it's all good with ya'll if we pull photos from TR's and other websites, even work related ones, just for the purpose of making fun of each other? I know a number of people who don't post TR's to this site for fear of being made fun of, this sort of behavior is tasteless and boorish. Raindawg, for all that you bitterly complain when you're the subject of this sort of thing, you're the worst offender.

Oh no no no, you're wrong Lance, climbing is about cheating death and being special, haven't you been paying attention? In fact, climbing is about what I say it is, not what you say it is.

Yes, that looks like an awesome week out in the mountains (for some of us). Thanks for sharing your awesome photos, I always enjoy your TR's.

Oh no no no, you're wrong Dick. People stay away from this site because of the blatant pro-bolt policies of the admins and moderators, haven't you been reading this whole thread?

That's a little ambiguous Joe, are you the one wearing the halo and you're feeling disparaged? Is it you talking to people who clip bolts? Or are you drifting to target evangelical christians? I posted that cover awhile back because the tone of the title, I'm Okay and You're Not, is what often infects these debates. It's usually the anti bolt crowd who trots out that attitude, your assertion as to what is "real climbing" and what isn't is a prime example. What you do is okay, but what others do isn't. Climbing is only what you define it as. I'm completely fine with your style or Raindawgs admirable attachment to low impact climbing. But anyone who stands up to declare "what I do is pure and righteous and most of the rest of you are degenerates defiling all that is sacred" will find people tend to respond with a whole bucket of Fuck You. And voila, we're off, with name calling all around and another thread moved to Spray. It's the holier than thou dismissive tone that almost always cloak these anti bolt diatribes that drive the style of the interaction. As Peter Puget aptly pointed out, it's embedded in terms selected. Sport vs Trad? What, is this a wrestling match? You mentioned that like you, I'm old enough to remember when people just called it "climbing." Actually, I still call it that, the whole ball of wax, and I don't consider myself one "type" of climber or another. I think there are a lot of other people who feel the same.

I'll have to check that out when I've got time, TED has some great lectures.

Bigger loss than Michael Jackson if you ask me. Heart attack at 59? [video:youtube]