scott_harpell

Scott- The question isn't the president's false dichotomy of his course of action or do nothing. Doing nothing is not going to make Islamic terrorism go away - neither will creating more failed states to breed terror (Iraq! N Korea!) - engagement and improvement in the 3rd world is the way forward. So... more corn?

If'n y'alls too faquin 'tardid ta figer out votin, ya'lls at too dumta faquin vote t'ainyways yhear?

Well I am all for reducing campaigns where 3,000 innocent civilians are murdered. I think another large portion is the taking out of the religious clerics who have the other, more moderate, muslim clerics murdered because they don't support the bastardization of the concept of jihad. Again, israel did this to a man who was in a wheelchair and everyone lambasted them for it. Wheelchair or not, he was still responsible for many deaths. Besides these things, I feel that doing nothing is a far worse strategy. If not for military intervention, what do the rest of you think we should do? Have the CIA build more bin Ladens? I think we are doing the right thing in confronting this with our men and with our money. I thought that creating bin Laden was cowardice and underhanded. We are paying for it, but we will right the wrong.

Either way you look at it, it is clear that the only reason that we won with out killing every soldier they had was because of the bomb. Japan still refused after the fist bomb and even the second bomb to surrende without him being left in. Whether McArthur wanted this to happen or not, they would not have surrentdered without this clause.

Anyone heading to the laptop battle in Belltown tonight? My buddy is in it and we are heading down tonight to start th festivities. B.P.? Alpo?

Well we didn't even win agains Japan on our terms as we left the emperor without being tried of war crimes and still in power. You know it is sad that it is happening to Iraq but it seems that a lot of terrorists are flocking there to help the cause. If that large of a concentration was to be destroyed adn we were able to find zarqaway (sp?) and bin ladin and the like, I think it would go a long way to fixing the sitation. I would definitely place more emphasis on the capturing of the leaders who are the real reasons these attrocities are taking place.

The mentality is similar to taht of Japan and raw violence is the only thing that made them bow. They were ready to fight to the last soldier until we completely overwhelmed them. This is something that I think should hav been done in Iraq (no, no the bomb, but overpowering them). Some people have no ability to reason because of their belief systems. If these people are hell bent on killing you there is little else you can do. I will concede that there are people who we can and should use diplomacy with but we have no chance at even getting at these people while the mindless propaganda is going around. Do you know that even in Italy the majority feel that George Bush paid for 9/11 to happen? Now this is a westernized country. Imagine the propaganda possible in a country like Iraq who was ruled by a tyrannic leader. Kinda helps you to understand why we are hated so much at the same time. I also look at the way the media tries to only show those that hate the U.S. while I have friends in Iraq that get hi-5's from the citizens there. It is not partisan, but rather that guns make a better story than hi-5's. I see your point but I still don't think there is any practicality in it right now before we clean the area up a little bit.

Jim get real. You are full of it. Imperialist? Do you even realize the kind of rhetoric that comes out of your mouth? Give me a break.

but Jim. THe UN was not given total access to as depots. How were we to know they even knew what they were talking about. You don't think that Saddam did this on purpose to scare us into thinking he did in fact have these weapons? Too bad it worked a little too well. I believe you are far too hung up on your partisan b.s. with your 'bushco' this and that. Things are not as simple as you would like to believe. Roosevelt lied to start a war, Johnson lied to start a war. There is shit we just aren't privvy to Jim. What you have to ask yourself is who is going to take care of you and who has your best interests at heart. You can spout off all the rhetoric in the World, but I will tell you that I woul rather face these wackos then live the rest of my life on my tip-toes trying not to piss them off. I think they are cowards and evil evil people. Have you seen what they did to that architect? Cut off his head. Not with a sword, but with a pocket knife. THESE PEOPLE CANNOT BE DEALT WITH BY REASON!. The only thing they understand is the sword and I will support someone that is willing to give it to them. I feel sorry for the people who are stuck, powerless, in the middle, but ultimately it is for their own good. It's too bad that they don't like us but that isn't the business we are in.

I might also point out the posturing that Saddam made prior to the war. He implied that he did in fact have these weapons as he stated that he had, "a surprise waiting for the invading infidels." If you want to get down to it, the best case scenario, we did find WMD and he was planning a huge offensive on the states and we subverted that. Worst case scenario, we ended the reign of a tyranical leader who has tortured and killed more bodies than will ever be shed in this war. I truly feel that a war against these militants was inevitable and am not really against this war even at this point.

1) Neither has 80+% of the other countries we have warred. 2) That was not determinable and this is clearly illustrated by the position of Kerry pre- war and now during the war. 3) Clearly not the case. Perhpaps dormant might be a better word. I don't think we should ever let dormant aggressors do so ever again. We have seen the consequences of that mistake.

You must understand that many poeple feel that the only way to end the hatred is to en dth propaganda. Thi sis largely from extremist religious leaders. Israel is being condemned for this (I don't side with Israel; only in this regard). When a religious leader calls out for terrorism and mass murder, I feel he should be eliminated. There will be no end to this cycle unless the propaganda stops. You cannot talk diplomacy to these people. True you might be able to reach to common man, but how are you going to do this? by giving him a can of corn a day that says U.S.A. on it? How are you going to do this. This is why diplomacy in this case is idealist crap. There is no way for this plan to move into action.

Might I add that the Gulf of Tonkin is between China and Vietnam. Quite the place for a destroyer to be.

Yes. Gunboats attacked one of our ships. The North Koreans invaded South Korea. We returned the status quo, like Gulf War I Please do That is some good American history you have for Vietnam. Many schooled in other countries might as why there were destroyers within range of Vietnam. So, Korea didn't attack us then. Is that what you are saying? You didn't adress Yugoslavia either.

For sure there was but was it justified? You will find few that will say yes. You are asking for diplomacy to be used against people that declare jihads on authors, murder women and children (intentionally) and blow up civilian instalations? Please. What angle are you going to take with these people? I'd die to hear it. We have seen what diplomacy can do with Kofee Annan's inability to mobilize the UN. THe only thing that speaks to these people is power.

Where else? Did Vietnam attack us? Did Korea attack us? Did Yugoslavia attack us? Shall I go on? Don't give me the humanitarian crap because it is just that. We have never done anything for humanitarian reasons in our 200+ year history.

What? 75% of the article is based on incorrect facts. Things like that usually make me skepticle of a position.

I'd hate to say it, but these bastards were already itching for a reason to go to war with us. We might as well give em one and get it over with as opposed to tip-toeing around worrying about it. Were in it now, elt do it right this time and be done with it. Fact checker is gonna get fired over that one; that is for sure. And they hadn't taken arms against us previous to Iraq? 9/11

well said.

That is what I do. Also with BD's you can just push the cam in the crack and it will go it. If you are really pumped this works great.

Mine was a surprise. I was already pumped, slammed in a blue tcu and kept going thru the crux bulge. Somehow I got horizontal trying to pull the crux and went airborne. Felt a slight tug and a nice solid catch and then got whacked in the nuts with the blue tcu and the draw. Yellow tcu is now my best friend.

Actually, six falls is the minimum, and these tests are extreme in nature. However, if you're feeling a bit squeamish, I suggest you give your rope to me and they are also back-to-back which means that the elastic properties are negated. Pretty extreme. There is a video of the testing I saw somewhere.

I went for a hike and saw some icicles!!!!!!!!!!!

I was wondering. The biggest whipper got me thinking about pieces yanking. I just had my first trad gear poping sensation a couple of weeks ago after working on my old project. Lets hear some stories about pants filling 'pings', 'scrapes' and "OH FUCKS!"

GM route with all small gear (we were only gonna do the first couple pitches). I didn't have shit in (just a #1 1/2 way up) and just ran it out took a whip/tumble all the way down to the belay. factor 1 baby! Nice and bloody after that one.