scott_harpell

You are hyperbolizing the stance that I take and making an assumption about an entirely different poster which may or not be true. I believe that bolts do indeed have their place but if heinous transgression of established ethics are breached, their welcome may be repealed. Trying to paint me as more polarized than I truly am will do nothing to credit your cause. If you really want your side to be validated and heard, you must not vaguely imply that the provided information is false but rather prove it false with first-hand knowledge or second hand knowledge from the first ascentionist. If you want to make any case for this route you must divulge the information crucial for determining the style of the route and its creation. Many are surprised that after all this fan-fare the first ascentionists have not come out of the wood work to defend their piece. You are their sole defender and are not even willing to describe the route in question. Another question that can?t helped be begged is this: Why create a route with so much conflict surrounding it that no-one can actually climb it? -Scott

NOLSE, I don't need a topo to find it. I am not looking for an easy way to fin this route so that I can chop it. I am merely asking if you have the information about the climb that you are implying refutes the statements made by other posters. If you do, I would think it wise to get it out now. How about this. You don't give any information about the location of the climb or even the aspect if that so suits you. What I feel we deserve and need is an honest description of the route, the methods used in its creation and if in your opinion this route is in-keeping with the currently held ethic in the area. If this is indeed much-ado abotu nothing, then we can lay the matter to rest. If the communities' concerns are indeed valid, the necessary steps will be taken to remedy the situation. This need not be a personal vendetta to somehow screw me out of the information. I suggest we put personal matters aside and try and help the community work out solutions to the problems that divide our community. This is bigger than one route or one ego. It encompasses future access and the possibility for future solidarity in this community. -Scott

Or a certain incident in a borrowed sleeping bag by an infamous cc.com poster.

J.P. it is only reasonable that something so controversial as this have its contents aired to the community. This has far reaching implications far beyond one climb or a "couple bolts." This sets a dangerous precedence that many in the community wish never becomes established. Your reluctance to divulge information vital to the communties understanding of this route because of personal reasons or to defend this route from the consensus of the community is irresponsible and childish. There are many involved in this scenario which are far more upset about this than I and unless the facts are aired, this route will be history and the bolts that adorned it will be adorning the living room of the aforementioned individuals. I hope you understand that you being open and honest about this route will not have any effect on its fate either way. The truth will come out one way or another. The thing you are risking right now J.P. is a further polarization of two sides that are already at odds. If you truly have the best interests of the community and the sport at heart you will make the info you have public so that this controversy may run its course before tempers and fellins of ill-will become any more apart of this than they already are. -Scott

I did. I think a copy editor is gonna get canned over this!

Her...

Well NOLSE knows what the deal is, but he is tight lipped about it. Word on the street is that he or one of his buddies did it and that is why he is so vehemenently defending it. If he would just say what the deal with the route is, it would clear a lot of things up but it seems he is unwilling to do this.

Well, the people who know where it is wont say where it is. They also seem to have a personal interest in the climb. This to me seems mighty suspicious.

CBS has gone aggro!

NetenYahoo was really trying to demolish this whole enterprise. That man will have a special place in hell I am sure.

A big update in middle east politics today is the recent accepting of the gaza withdrawl plan of Sharon. This seems like a step in the right direction. Of course, the religious right on both sides are crying bloody murder, but at this point I would like to leave them out of it.

brb... switching classes.

I think he has changed his view in order to more align himself with his base. Why does it take 4 years to clarify your position?!? He voted for the war and then he said that there was absolutely no reason why we should have ever gone to war with Iraq. Figure that one out ace.

ChucK, I am saying that Kerry supported the War. That is all there is. If you can say that voting for a war, demanding a regime change, and calling Saddam a terrorist oh and saying that he had WMD and not be in support of this war, he is either the biggest doulbe-speaker in the world or just a liar... tke your pick.

Do you seriosuly think that Iraq would go the western capitolist way that Russia went? Give me a break. The next step for Iraq was for Uday and Qusay to run a joint reign of terror that made Saddam's reign look like a re-run of the teletubbies.

That is loaded and hyperbolized question, but I will bite. I do think that in the long run it will save many lives.

No, he was not for the war. Read everything he said, again. He voted to give the president authority to go to war. He's not against the war now. He wants to end the war, just like Bush does: successfully. (What else is there to do?) He's against going to war when we don't have to. We're fighting a war in Iraq, like it or not, so that qualifies as "have to". You're trying to skew everything Kerry says into black-and-white categories, which doesn't make sense. So you tell me what Kerry thought would happen if he gave Bush poser to invade Iraq. Give me a fucking break. Of course he was going to go in there. How do you think there was going to be a regime change? Do you think he was just gonna ask Saddam to leave? Get real man. What do you think he was thinking if he didn't think we were going to war?

You need to read up on Soviet history there chappy. Khrushchev and Brezhnev's attempts to create a new socialism (based on the apparent failure of theold system) was followed by Glasnost and Perestroika as more flailing attempts by Gorbachev to fix the falling star. This is not propaganda. Why do you think that a couple million people holding hands in the Baltic we able to acheive freedom without a single shot being fired? The star was dying.

Yes but the fact remains that fi he were president 4 years ago it is likely we would still be at war with Iraq; unless all he sid was mere lip service to gain moderate voters in this upcomming election. He only changed his story after the rise of the insurgency. How do you explain that. He was for the war and there is no escaping that. He is now against the war and is an "anti-war candidate." How do you rectify this discrepancy?

You can't do this without declaring war on a nation. Think about it. You are bombing on their soil. Soon enough the republican army would be shooting at our planes (even more than they already did) and all out war would have happened anyways.

I am also worried about the billions of dollars and thousands that died as a result of non-action in a mere couple of hours.

But at what cost? IYO: when is the cost to great? In terms of what? I think the cost of doing nothing in the long run far outweighs the 1000 troops we have lost. Our inactions in the past cost 3,000 civilians their lives because we failed to move sooner.

I prefer my own fact checking... The Soviet regime was a failing one. It was clear. Especially the last 25-30 years it was merely going through the motions. I think prior to that we utilized them on both fronts of the War, so I think your position on this is quite ridiculous.

I am still waiting to know what you would have done. You have not given me a response. You can mock Bush all you want but until you have a better idea, you are the retarded kid making fun of the kid with ADD.