pindude

OK, who did it...and whatcha gonna do with em all? Source ---------- Victoria's Secret missing tons of panties March 25, 2003 (BELLEVUE, Wash.) — Call it a $5,000 panty raid. That's the estimated value of 300 sets of skivvies taken from Victoria's Secret in Bellevue Square. "It's very unusual. It's shoplifting to the max," said Marcia Harnden, a police spokeswoman in this suburb east of Seattle. An employee noticed the panties in a variety of colors, styles and sizes were missing shortly before 5 p.m. Sunday, Harnden said. Each cost $15 to $28. Two display tables at the front of the store were cleared of the frilly, silky merchandise, and two other tables, one next to the cash register, were half-emptied, she said. Police don't think it was an inside job. "All the employees were busy" with customers, and no one noticed any suspicious shoppers, Harnden said. "It's probably a crime of opportunity," Harnden said. Police may check flea markets and online auction sites, Harnden said, "but if I were the consumer, I'd be very leery about buying undergarments from a disreputable source."

Sisu, CENTRAL FUCKING IDAHO. There's so much fucking open space there you can camp anywhere without pissing anyone off. A lot of that land outside the city is BLM anyway. And as a standard rule I wouldn't go there before June. Of course its possible you might have good weather but doubtfull. Shit you could have good weather at Squamish in December. I still wouldn't tell someone to got here then. Wrong specialed; sisu is right. You CAN'T "camp anywhere you want" around the City of Rocks. Best to be careful. The City is in southern Idaho, and a lot of that open space is private land--locals are way conservative, especially when compared to western WA and OR rural property owners (I wouldn't want to wake up in the early morning on the wrong end of a barrel held by a pissed-off owner because I was trying to duck the camping fee and I chose the wrong place to camp). Most importantly, access has been threatened over the years at the City precisely because of the actions of *some* rogue climbers camping and going wherever they've wanted. Locals stepped in and became very involved dating back to the 80s, and provided much input to help establish the City as a bona fide park. Issues have continued to be resolved through the years, including with help from the Access Fund who recently helped purchase some of the private land that is now part of the park. Those of us who climb there regularly don't want access further threatened. The City is considered a destination climbing spot. It's high-elevation desert, and I've been snowed on in late June but there can be good climbing weather from spring to fall. You'll find climbers from throughout the world staying for a week or more, and you can get on a full range of routes from trad to bolted, from easy to way hard. Lots to choose from, best to use a guide. Good ones are Bingham's City of Rocks: A Climber's Guide, c. 2000; and the out-of-print (?) City of Rocks Select by Forkash, c. 1996. Like others said, bring a 60-m rope or you could get in trouble like others have--I like to bring a second 60-m rap line for quicker descents off the 60-m routes. Campground is generally not open until April 1; prior to that you might have to park at one of the gates and walk in to the disignated camp sites. Say hi to climbing ranger Brad Shilling.

'Tis an interesting question. I don’t profess to know everything about the Roskelleys, and I don’t know Jess personally or first-hand. But I want to respond to the above to clear up anything that could become misperception, and God knows John has suffered enough from misperceptions generated by the media through the years, and recently with the travesty called a book recently written by Robert Roper. John and Jess are headed out in the next 1-2 days, and I wish them the best of success. I’ll take a stab at the above and address it in relation to what I know about the Roskelleys, and my own experience, and I’ll keep my flame suit on. I think there are at least 3 items of note allowing for a parent to successfully teach a son or daughter climbing, including in the Himalaya: 1. Kid must want to do it on their own; no pushing from folks: While certainly there is some influence in having a dad as a famous climber, my understanding is that John never pushed his son to take up climbing, and that Jess sought it out on his own. While the offer was there for Jess to climb when he wanted to, Jess didn't want to try it until I believe about 5 years ago, when he was 15 or 16. Climbing certainly is now one of his great passions. My own daughter was given the opportunity and TR-climbed with me at the crag a few times from the time she was about 7. Around 10, she decided she didn’t want to be a climber, and I didn’t force her. She’s a self-described city-lover, and will graduate from college shortly. I’m glad for her that she is choosing the life she wants, even if it’s somewhat different from my own. 2. Kid must be mature enough to learn, and there must be a good parent-kid relationship in the first place: Some kids are not mature enough to learn, whether it be from parent or someone else. As a rebellious 15- to 16-year-old, I didn’t learn much then from my own dad (I did learn from others), but once I went away to college I matured along with our relationship. OTOH, some kids are mature at a younger age--I’ve introduced and taught climbing to many kids and adults, and have had some younger kids, including one particular bright, athletically gifted 14-year-old, who was more mature and a better student than a great many adults I’ve taught. So it depends on the individual kid to a great degree. Here, Jess is hardly a kid anymore, but is a mature, smart, independent-thinker and skilled climber, and has a good relationship with his dad. 3. Parent has to be a good teacher: In the Roskelley’s case, John has taught and worked with literally hundreds of happy climbers in this area and elsewhere through the world, and has decades of Himalayan experience. Granted, the Himalaya is a dangerous place, but if I was going, I don’t think one could have a better mentor than a John Roskelley, whether he was one’s dad or not. In response to 1-2 of the other posts, I’ll add that it would be hypocritical if I told my daughter she couldn’t climb while I do so myself. Hypothetically speaking, if she did want to climb, it would be irresponsible of me—as I am a capable climbing teacher—if I didn’t offer to teach her on my own, in addition to encouraging her to learn from others as well. Re. going to the Himalaya, I am not an expeditionary climber, and have not seriously climbed outside of North America. But if my daughter showed she was capable of climbing in the Himalaya and wanted to, I might have a case for holding her back because of the statistically greater chance she might die or get hurt than what I do climbing around the mountains of North America--I certainly wouldn't have much of a case for holding her back from climbing on this continent. Personally, I would give her my blessings IF the Himalaya were her dream, knowing that she IS a strong, independent thinker, but also knowing that (again, hypothetically speaking) she was climbing-skilled and with another or more, including Wickwire, who would capably mentor and teach her in that special environment. Go Roskelleys, Wickwire, and Bass! --Steve Reynolds

John's son Jess is indeed 20, and that of course is a huge difference. Jess has been an RMI guide I believe for 2 years, is successful and well-respected. I can't imagine a better teacher and companion than John R., one of our country's most experienced Himalayan climbers, who many times hung it all out there, but also has shown he knows when not to. The best and coolest part of it all is that this Himalayan mentor is his dad. Hey moderators: RoskellEy, RoskellEy, RoskellEy!!!

kakeandjelly, click on the links I previously posted (or read the hyperlink text) and you'll find out the date. Indeed, the newspaper article was mainly on Roskelley, but since the only book discussed on this thread is Wick's Addicted to Danger, you must be referring to Wickwire with your comments and age question. BTW, Roskelley is spelled with two "e's," although there are no umlauts or other interesting punctuation. Roskelley was not on Big Lou's 1982 Everest North Wall expedition with Wickwire.

Here's all the "Generations on Everest" expedition poop I'm aware of... The official Web site just got up yesterday: http://www.generationsoneverest.com/ The original article appearing in the Spokane paper on Sunday, Feb. 12, that Plexus referred to, is at the following source: http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news-story.asp?date=020903&ID=s1299686 Since the Spokesman-Review requires one to register and I know some don't like to do that sort of thing, I've copied the article below. Appearing in the S-R the same day was another article by Rich Landers on the Roskelley-Spokane 1980 Makalu climb that was picked in the current AAC Journal as one of the most significant climbs of the last century. From this page, there are links also to a great series of articles on the climb printed back in 1980: http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news-story.asp?date=020903&ID=s1299687 Happy reading, but get out and climb! --Steve Reynolds ------- Everest: Lifetime chance for Roskelleys Father, son plan family affair on the world's highest peak Spokesman-Review Rich Landers Outdoors editor Spokane County Commissioner John Roskelley, once America's premier high-altitude mountaineer, plans to join his son on top of the world. Roskelley, 54, announced last week that he will combine his vacation with a leave of absence this spring in order to accompany his 20-year-old son, Jess, on a climb of Mount Everest. "This could be a once in a lifetime opportunity for both of us," Roskelley said. The effort would require about two months of travel and cold, grueling work, taking Roskelley away from Spokane roughly from March 20 through May 20. Everest climbers gamble to hit the narrow window of spring weather patterns Ð between the forbidding cold of winter and the monsoons Ð that might allow climbers to reach the 29,035-foot summit. Almost as formidable is the effort and expense to secure a coveted permit to climb Everest from one of the adjoining countries. Permit costs alone range up to $70,000. "Anymore, it takes a lot of money and a lot of backing to get one," Roskelley said, noting that his opportunity is bittersweet. The permit had been secured last year by Ed Hommer, 46, of Duluth, Minn., a double amputee who had drummed up considerable corporate interest in his climbing prowess and ambition to scale Everest after a failed attempt two years ago. Jim Wickwire, 63, a Seattle attorney and climber who has joined Roskelley previously in the Himalayas, had suggested that Roskelley might want to join them. Since he's no longer climbing professionally, sponsored expedition invitations no longer come knocking at Roskelley's door. But while training with Wickwire in November on Mount Rainier, Hommer was killed by rockfall. "Wickwire was devastated," Roskelley said. "At that point the expedition was off. It had been Ed's trip. "But then Wickwire got the blessing of Hommer's family, and decided to go on with it rather than waste the permit. He'd dedicate the climb to Ed's memory, and Jess and I would go along." Also joining the team is Dick Bass, 73, owner of Snowmass Ski Area in Colorado, who gained fame as the first person to reach the so-called Seven Summits, the highest point on each of the continents. The four climbers will likely have to share total remaining expedition costs of up to $60,000. "That's steep, but by Everest standards that's a bargain," Roskelley said. "A guided climb costs more than that per person." Roskelley said he's not concerned about the 50-year age spread between the four team members. "Jim is putting together a strong team of Sherpa climbers and there will be another American team on the north side with us," he said. "We'll all be working together." The north side of Everest requires more technical climbing than the more commonly scaled South Col route pioneered by Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay in 1953. Roskelley, still highly regarded for his Himalayan experience, has continued to travel abroad for short spurts in recent years to lead trekkers in regions such as Bhutan. He and Jess climbed Stoke Kangri, a 20,187-foot peak in northwest India four years ago when Jess was 16. A graduate of Mt. Spokane High School, Jess is taking the semester off from the University of Montana in order to finish Everest preparations. But his training started long ago. Climbing has become his passion, said Jess, who's been guiding climbers on Mount Rainier for two seasons. "In winter, I can't wait for a chance to go ice climbing," he said. "In Missoula, I love football, but if I have a choice between going to a game and going climbing, I'd rather take the time and do something that makes me better at what I want to do. "As a guide, I'm learning more about getting along with people and taking care of others," he said. "But it also puts me near other good climbers where I've learned so many things about techniques." Getting a shot at Everest is huge, he said. "To me, it's like a skater going to the Olympics," he said. "It's been a goal, and to have it come with a chance to climb with super experienced climbers who have all been there, I think I'm going to learn a ton." John Roskelley said he's always known there would never be a perfect time in his life to leave home for two months once he entered public service. "But the opportunity isn't going to be there when I retire," he said. "I think I'd mortgage the house or whatever for this chance. "Jess totaled his car recently, so that was an unexpected but timely influx of cash from the insurance. He won't have a car, but we'll save even more money because we can cancel his insurance for awhile." If all goes as planned, the Roskelleys would leave March 20, fly to Bangkok and then to Katmandu. "We'll drive to the border between Nepal and Tibet and then drive several more rough days to a base camp," he said. From then on, the climbers would be on foot, making camps up the north ridge, which was in the news in 1999 after climbers found the body of George Mallory. The British climber and his companion, Andrew Irvine, may have been the first to climb Everest in 1924, but they perished on the peak. Roskelley attempted the north ridge with Wickwire in 1993, but they were turned back by monsoons that dumped snow every day. "Before we could get a long enough stretch of weather, our permit ran out," he said. "On this expedition, each one of us has a goal, the summit. But like all Everest trips, a portion of the team might get to different heights, depending on health and all the other variables. A single person can continue with the other team or with Sherpas." Roskelley said Jess has become a good climber who's up to the challenge. "I'm happy for the chance to go with him because I hope I can teach him to acclimate properly and help him learn not to run up too fast," Roskelley said. "That's what happens to all young, strong climbers. That's usually when they get in trouble." Roskelley knows the insidious nature of high altitude sickness. In 1981, he was stricken with cerebral edema while on the Cassin Ridge of Mount McKinley, even though he had climbed several higher peaks with no altitude problems. "It made me go blind for several minutes at a time," he said, noting that he had to make an emergency descent with his partner Jeff Deunwald, a Spokane veterinarian. "I made an error. I didn't drink enough fluids. We got hit by a five-day storm and that's when I got it. That's part of the game you've got to learn. "In 1983, I had pulmonary edema on the west ridge of Everest. I was ill to start with and too stubborn to go down and clear it up at a lower altitude. Illness changes the chemistry in the body and makes you more susceptible." Roskelley's Spokane climbing partner, Kim Momb, had to help him off the mountain. Roskelley made another Everest attempt in 1984. "I didn't have any altitude sickness, but I was going without oxygen and it got incredibly cold. I got to 28,000 feet, but my hands and feet were freezing. I knew I might be able to make the summit, but I'd probably loose my fingers and feet doing it, so I turned back." Now he wants to haul this payload of experience for his kid to tap. "I feel I have the ability to mentor him a bit," he said. Roskelley said he won't accept any salary beyond his vacation time from the county. "I'm not going to take advantage of county taxpayers," said the commissioner, who was first elected seven years ago. He said he keeps in climbing form with occasional weekend mountaineering and ice-climbing trips. "Jess and I climbed a nice rock route up Ojibway Peak in the Cabinets last summer," he said. "I have the strength to climb the big mountains. I know I'm not as fast as I used to be, but the technique never leaves you. "I still have all the experience. It won't take long to get back in the saddle." But the mountain is still the wild, untamable horse, he said. "No matter who you are, when you're on the big peaks, there's always a little luck involved. You only make the top if everything comes together." Jess Roskelley says he's ready, and so is his dad. "I've been running with dad every day and I can tell you he's super strong," he said. "It's going to be like going with another 20-year old, but he's your dad. "Some kids might think doing things with your parents isn't as good as doing things with friends, but I've always looked at my dad as one of my greatest friends."

Pat Kopczynski was his cousin, and according to Chris, was a real nice human being and a good father. All in all, it was a pretty bad Saturday here in the Inland NW. Pat left behind a wife and 4 kids (2 by previous marriage). BC skier Tim Parnow of Sandpoint got buried about 90 minutes before and about 10 miles south of where Pat got buried. He left behind a wife and a daughter. News story: http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news-story.asp?date=022403&ID=s1307788 --Steve Reynolds

Paul, I'm not going to resort to name-calling, Christmas or not. True, I wasn't there, and I wasn't in their shoes--doesn't change my opinion. Please tell me: how real do clothes, stuffed with newspapers, look?

This thread rears its ugly head again. It turns out the 911 caller wasn't peering down from the top of Sunshine Wall, but instead was on the ground and got to within 20' of the dummy. More info as provided in Rich Landers' S-R outdoor column (a column is a venue whereby opinion is normally provided, folks): http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news-story.asp?date=121902&ID=s1274562 Too bad they were too squeamish to check it out more closely. If I was a victim in just such a situation (and not just the regular dummy I am), I would hope whoever was checking me out would have the werewithal to come closer and render assistance if it was needed. To the 911 callers: get over your squeamishness, and take a WOFA or MOFA class. --Steve Reynolds

Ade, at first I wasn't sure what you were saying "nope" to, as I didn't realize 13-cm screws are now commonly available as of this year, at least from BD. In fact, BD no longer makes 17-cm screws, their sizes with the new Turbo screws are now 10, 13, 16, 19, & 22. You can still get 17's with the older BD regular and express screws that are left over and are on sale ($29.95 regular, $39.95 express), either through your local shop or directly from BD mail order. BD MO is out of the 17-cm old regulars but does have 17s with the Express handle. So now I'd like to see the old Harmston and Raleigh tests done with the new 13- and 16-cm sizes. If some were wondering about using a "stubby" vs. 17- or 22-cm sizes, now people can be really confused! To correct what I posted before, and at least as far as BD screws go, it seems to me that one would want one or two of each of the smaller sized 10s and 13s--for when you've got to get a screw in really quick or more likely when you've got shallow placements, as its better to have the eye flush rather than a sling girthed on the shaft . If using BD exclusively, I think one should have a concentration of 16s and 19s, with some 22s for V-threads and belay anchors.

BD used to make a gear loop kit specifically for the Alpine Bod, but I don't see it anymore and a search came up empty. I would call BD in SLC to see if you can get it directly thru their mail order dept--because it's not on their web site does not necessarily mean they don't have it. If they don't have it, I have made them myself using the stiffest possible accessory cord, at the largest possible diameter that will fit thru those sewn tabs: 4mm I think. Whatever it is, it's certainly less than 5.5. Then I've gone to my local hardware store and bought tubing with an inner diameter that barely accomodates that 4mm or so cord. I would think the tubing from a hardware store would be stiffer and more heavy duty than aquarium tubing (but I don't know aquarium tubing), and certainly the combo if you get a stiff accessory cord would allow you to have something that should be easier to clip into. Good luck.

Testing and report done by ex-BD QA engineer Chris Harmston. Further testing also done by Craig Luebben of Climbing mag and author of How to Ice Climb. Bottom line, 17-cm screws hold almost as well as 22's. 10-cm screws hold well too, given all are in good ice. Duplication of part of table from CH's study and report (sorry, couldn't figure out how to center columns): Length - # Samples - Ave. (lbs.) 22 cm - 86 - 5006 17 cm - 113 - 4853 10 cm - 63 - 4279 So, your rack should consist mostly of 17-cm screws, a few 10's, and perhaps at least a couple or more 22's for the belay anchors. And angle down the screw (10-15 deg) only in good ice, for screws with DEEP threads. My older, inexpensive Climb High Russian Titaniums, with shorter thread depth, I always angle up, and bring along mostly as "leavers."

Thanks, Steve, for providing the truthful perspective for this spray-board. Hayshaker, by far, most of us climbers (i'd say likely 99%) do appreciate what is done by all SAR rescue folks. Thanks for expressing your opinion in light of some of the other comments. All in all, this dummy thing is pretty strange. Whoever called it in--there's a difference in the stories between the S-R article and slaphappy's post--unfortunately didn't immediately get close to check out what was really under the pillar. It seems to me this was the whole reason for the SAR call-out fiasco. If the "body" had been checked out by those calling it in, they would have seen it was a dummy. On the other hand, I can see if they were looking down from up above and it might have taken some time to get down to it, that 911 should have been called. Truly a bad practical joke that got out of hand. I wouldn't want this one instance of calling Wolf due to freak circumstances delaying any rescues that might be needed in the future out at Frenchman's Coulee or anywhere else.

Lots of rumors now circulating about not only the dummy, but also about the Good Vibrations pillar toppling a couple weeks ago. One I heard is that the Vantage Yeti is responsible for both the pillar toppling and the dummy. Another rumor, more serious, is that the pillar was toppled using a jack, and the same people later "planted" the dummy. I can see trundling a problematic pillar in the name of safety. But the dummy thing is something else altogether. If the pillar was toppled for safety reasons, why hasn't anyone come forward and taken responsibility? Regardless, the climbing community is taking the rap for the dummy BS. In today's Spokesman-Review (you might have to register/log in): http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news-story.asp?date=121202&ID=s1270842&cat=section.sports

More technical description for TLG

Indeed it was a hoax. A friend called the Grant Co Sheriff's office, this was part of his message to me: "Here's what I found out. The Grant County Sheriff's Office says this was a really Bad Prank. Apparently, they got a call to investigate the climbing area near the old Vantage Highway about 10AM Saturday Morning. Thought there was a body there. They had an EMS team, search/rescue folks, 4 deputies and Medstar out there looking. To say the least, it was very expensive and one deputy was injured after falling on the rocks. It turned out to be a shirt and pants stuffed with rags to look like a body. Any additional info, call Grant Co Sheriff's Office at 509-754-201 (ext 468)." I'd be using the thumbs down icon if it was still here. While whoever did it thought it must have been funny, it was really very short-sighted and pretty effing stupid. SAR and other rescue people put their lives on the line whenever they're called out, and in this instance a deputy got hurt. The idiots should be strung up.

Just noticed this thread. While the digression and discussion on anchor forces is interesting, it seems to me some are losing sight of or are not clear on exactly what the situation was as far as the original accident is concerned. The 2 guys involved in the accident are both friends of mine--the leader still lives and climbs in the NW, the belayer moved away about a year after the accident. Neither are posters or readers of this board, to my knowledge. The belayer was standing at the base of the third pitch, near the cave and on a ledge, facing in to the ice. He had 2 screws in for the belay anchor, and was tied in to it from the front of his harness, either the belay loop or a biner on the swami. The leader did not place a screw first thing from off right from the belay, instead placing his first screw about 15 feet up as is in the short description in 1996 ANAM. At about 30 feet up, trying to get a second screw in on the WI4 portion of the pitch, the leader pumped out and fell, pulling the only screw he had between the belayer and him. The ropes then went directly from the lead climber to the belayer's ATC. Since the belayer was facing in to the ice, once the lead climber fell below the belay and onto the rope, the belayer was quickly and violently pulled--from the point of the ATC attached to his harness--180 degrees and away from the direction of he was originally facing. Since his weight was firmly planted on his crampons on the ledge facing in, and the force of the fall turned his hips around, was the reason for the tib-fib spiral Fx. ANAM's analysis seems to suggest that the belayer should have clipped the rope directly into the belay anchor--something I generally do on my bombproof anchors in rock, and admittedly and lazily have done while on ice. I also do at times put in a lead screw just above the belay (separate from the anchor), which is obviously preferred, and think after this discussion I am more likely to do so in future. FWIW, here's the ANAM report: FALL ON ICE, INADEQUATE BELAY POSITION, PROTECTION PULLED OUT Alberta, Rocky Mtns, Lake Louise, Lake Louise Falls A party of two were climbing the upper pillar (grade V) of this popular waterfall on March 20. About ten meters out from the belay, the leader fell, pulling out the one screw he had placed for protection. The resulting 20-meter fall was arrested by his belayer, but the force of the fall spun him around and he sustained a fractured fibula. The leader was not injured. The two climbers were assisted to the base of the waterfall by an ACMG guide who was working the area, and then the injured climber was slung out by helicopter to an ambulance waiting at Lake Louise. (Source: Marc Ledwidge, Banff National Park Warden Service) Analysis Belays should be set up so they transfer impacts from all likely directions to the anchor in as straight a line as possible. The bleayer then needs only to control the run of the rope. (Source: Orvel Miskiw) My additional comments: - The 2 climbers were grateful for their rescue, and the fact that of the 5 other climbers on the route below them, all helped in the rescue, and 3 of these 5 were highly trained to provide emergency and first aid assistance. - The leader was slightly injured taking that 60-ft whipper, bruising much of one side of his body, but could gladly walk away. --pindude

You shouldn't pay even close to that much. Pull out the Crisco, it indeed does seem like you're getting cornholed. Those Edmunds prices are also in line with Kelly Blue Book: http://www.kbb.com It's not often you find a 4x4 with 150k miles in "mint" condition, unless it was driven only by a soccer mom, but at that price I wouldn't even waste the time or $ to have a mechanic look at it. Without figuring in possible A/C and other significant value-added options such as DLX model vs. SR5, extended cab, bed length, etc., KBB has the following values for the spec's you gave: dealer retail: $3660 private party: $2665 Now I would pay these prices for that Toyota rig, as it is one of the more dependable, longer-lasting vehicles out there, and those inevitable repairs and part replacements of an older vehicle are generally less expensive for Toyotas vs. other makes. My own little '94 Toy 4x4 has 230k miles and has many years left in it.

quote: Originally posted by fern: quote:Originally posted by pindude: Of the different types of flagging, from talking to surveyors and timber cruisers, glo-orange is the color that stands out best. how much timber and survey work is there on whited-out glaciers? Of course timber cruisers aren't normally on glaciers, nor are surveyors. But they do both work in snow and sometimes in wet, foggy, or white-out conditions. While timber cruisers are obviously usually just among trees, surveyors are not. Guess I confused the issue for maybe a couple of you by mentioning timber cruisers. FWIW, most of the flagging I sold and pro opinions I heard re. those results on color were 95% plus from surveyors working in remote-site areas, who are out in all types of terrain and weather, and choose their flagging colors for such. While working for the same company, I also supplied thousands of wands per contract to ASA for use in Antarctica. Their color of choice? Glo-orange. However, the original question and discussion was about what stands out best for wands...I was letting it be known what pros--people who for a living use flagging--like best in terms of flagging colors.

Of the different types of flagging, from talking to surveyors and timber cruisers, glo-orange is the color that stands out best. When I sold supplies to these professions, glo-orange was by far the best-seller, glo-pink was #2, and glo-yellow #3. Didn't have too many requests for different colors beyond that. On my own wands, for contrast I use 2 colors of flagging: glo-orange and glo-yellow. And to wrap the top of the slitted bamboo wand where I've slotted and tied the flagging, I use 3M reflective tape availabe at Lowe's or Home Depot. For me, these wands are easier to see than the NPS wands with the red-tape flags. --pindude

Thanks, mtnnut. I'll give him a shout directly to see what he has/knows.

Here's where the last discussion on this board was (pretty interesting), but the original link to the html where the pic was posted is no longer up--at least I can't get it to open. The photo at the front of Burnett's web site posted by Winter is distorted; Charlie's link which is direct to the jpeg is best. WTF, might as well link to it here. I would like to get hold of a higher quality copy to make into a slide to use for students either during our orientation lecture (welcome to mountaineering!) or during the risk management presentation. If anybody knows where I can get hold of one, give me a PM or e-mail. --Steve

quote: Originally posted by rbw1966: Are you sure this is a climbing video or were you um. . ."preoccupied" during the climbing sequences? Reminds me when I worked in a climbing shop in the late 80s...MOSI has nothing on it compared to a video done of Brit hardman Ron Fawcett done in the 80s. Wish I could remember it's name. Had LOTS of video showing Fawcett trying to redpoint some hard gritstone testpiece at his upper limits. Filmed in the humid Brit summer so Fawcett's wearing nothing but real small track shorts, he's grunting for all he's worth through all the hard sequences. Myself not having seen it yet, and noticing an older non-climber guy renting it for the umpteenth time, innocent me had to ask him why. After hearing his answer, we dubbed a copy specially for him so we wouldn't have to deal with him any more.

quote: Originally posted by vegetablebelay: Maybe he's the absolute hardest of hardmen, and like Caveman said cheers to his accomplishements. That said, he still comes off sounding like... Remember, you're reading words from a newspaper column, and even though Houston is quoted, it's just one small side of him, as filtered through the eyes of another...in this case Joel Connelly. Journalistic columns are meant to be forums for opinion, and opinion is exactly what Connelly is giving, using Houston's words to back it up. My own opinion, FWIW, is that it is perfectly normal for the Houstons, Hillarys, Messners and other climbers from decades ago to lament the changes, the lack of innocence, and the current state of climbing and the world. C'est la vie. And it's perfecty normal for us as we get older to have strong opinions. But again, the Houstons of the world have a lot more to say about what it really was like. Charley IS a bona fide hardman, has contributed much to climbing and our understanding of high-altitude physiology, and is cool to boot. Given the choice of presentations between the local younger Kearney and Boston-area native Charley in his 80s, there is no question who I would choose to see. Wish I wasn't in Spokane mid-week. Somebody please post a TR, and let me know if Charley's wearing his Pendleton wool shirt.

quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: Masters of Stone "It's like a giant belly of a whale, and you're just huggin' it, slappin' it ... holds aren't much better, either." -- Name that sprayer and the route he's spraying about! "This cave is SO steep; it's FULLY RAINING right now, and this cave is PERFECTLY dry." -- Again, name that sprayer! Which Masters of Stone? There's now 5 of 'em. I used to have I and IV a while ago, then let 'em be borrowed and never got them back. Right, Sir D, sure sounds like Dano.