pindude

quote: Originally posted by freeclimb9: Shit, that sucks about the "F" grade.With regard to the Kevlar cord recall, I lived it. What would I quote as a bibliographic source? I'm not familiar with the entry format. All this stuff went down in 85, or 86, and I don't take that much gingko biloba to recall expedition details on who got the chop and where. A fixed line failed. Someone died. Kevlar was blamed. I do remember that Great Pacific Iron Works reccommended kevlar cord to me in 85 for slinging hexes, by 87 that was considered to be unwise because of the proven danger, and Chouinard Equipment sold off their remaining kevlar at low, low prices around that same time. Bluewater performed testing on nylon, kevlar and spectra cord around that time, also. The kevlar turned to powder after cycling over a 10mm rotating bar. These test results were published in one of the mags, Summit, R&I, or Climbing. I can't remember which. Believe it, or not. Dude, for your sake, I would like you to come up with some independent citable source, stating it was proven Chouinard/Black Diamond's Kevlar cord was at fault for these supposed deaths. Hell, I've still got my old Chouinard hexes strung with Kevlar, and I remember the Blue Water tests and BD's change from Kevlar to Gemini cord. "Turned to powder?" Doesn't sound to me like an objective scientific term describing the result of a test, and I don't recall myself that was what happened to the Kevlar. I doubt seriously BD is at fault, even if deaths occured. And if deaths did occur, there must be SOMETHING you can provide as a source of that, although it would not necessarily tell us if BD were "at fault." I would take as a source a copy of an archived AP newstory, or a statement from BD themselves. Just saying: you recalled details "...on who got the chop and where. A fixed line failed. Someone died. Kevlar was blamed."--doesn't cut it. To blame death on a company without supporting evidence is potentially libelous. Be careful when you're slinging words. It's unfortunate many aren't on this type of forum. Grade of F still stands. pindude

quote: Originally posted by pindude: Can you absorb this without acting like a baby and respond appropriately? No. And now you're lying, icebaby. If you lost your fingers, just what are you typing with? [ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: pindude ]

quote: Originally posted by specialed: Is it me or is the BD catalog looking more and more like J. a Crew catalog with ice tools. And now you can buy your own helmut sticker pack for only $9.95. Sellout? Never seen a J. Crew catalog (who buys that stuff, anyway), but sellout? No way. BD has always made stickers, given out liberally by their folks. Guess now they are offering them as a regular item for order. Following BD and Patagonia catalogs since the 70's, they have always been at the fore of graphic and publishing design. I just got in the mail last Saturday the Spring catalog: it's got the same killer photos, lists of spec's, and even more articles. This is all stuff they've had before (read the reference to the '72 catalog and Doug Robinson's landmark article that began the whole clean climbing revolution). The catalog just seems to be much BIGGER; they've got more product than ever before. Sure beats 8.5 x 11 photocopied paper! pin

quote: Originally posted by IceIceBaby: Is my personal experience is not enough….How the hell you can judge things if not to your experience, my case is not individual and there is some others that did not step forward b/c they just don’t want to make waves, which I could care less Icebaby, your reasoning and argumentative abilities are seriously flawed: (1) You should have called CS. (2) One or two problems with one company's products does not make them bad for all they make and do. The fact that you blew out the seams, as you said, lends credence to the theory you bought the gloves too small. Regardless, if you'd rationally and unemotionally talk with CS I am sure something could be worked out, or maybe you would discover it's something YOU'RE doing wrong. (3) You're just continuing the bull when you say others haven't come forward, yet you don't give examples. Can you absorb this without acting like a baby and respond appropriately? pin

quote: Originally posted by jkrueger: Everything I have from Black Diamond has lived up to my expectations, though I have heard horror stories regarding their customer service... Okay, let's cut through the bullshit on this thread. If you're going to diss a manufacturer or store, you better be able to back it up with sound reasoning or facts (Icebaby, NOT). If you are going to say you have heard "horror stories," you better be giving honest examples, rather than let it hang. pindude [ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: pindude ]

quote: Originally posted by IceIceBaby:<snip> I have bought lately the "Dry-Tools" gloves and I pay full retail price $60+Tax. I have used them twice, the gloves just busted at the seams, and all stitch line has frayed thread on them. To me it seems very strange since I did not expected to happen so quickly. I have looked for the label to see if I did something wrong, only to find that a small white label that it was tacked away in the middle of the glove. The label read in subscript letters MADE IN CHINA Just by reading this line I have gotten my answer Instantly. [*]BD couldn't be farthest away from the founder's ideology [*]BD will sale gear with compromised quality and poor control and labor. Anything to make a buck. Even if the have no clue of how to make or create it. This show through their resent brainwashing campaigns and the legacy of making the worst gloves in the industry. [*]I see a huge and alarming quality drop in gear made by BD and I wonder where and when it will stop <snip> Do you feel better now Icebaby? You jump to some pretty broad conclusions with scant evidence to back it up. Yes, obviously you should be calling CS of the store where you bought the gloves, or from BD themselves. Shit like this happens even with the BEST of manufacturers--a mark of maturity and reasonableness would be to deal with the situation appropriately by speaking to someone who could fix the problem rather than rant on this board. And judging by your rant, it's obvious your problems are greater than the gloves. If it happened to you with TWO pair, it sounds to me like possibly you are buying your gloves too small. I have had zero problems with the BD gloves and mitts I have purchased. Still gladly using BD equipment, no matter where it's made, pindude P.S. I am VERY sorry for inadvertantly sending out Icebaby's rant as that Post #4, and subjecting people to have to read it again.

quote: Originally posted by IceIceBaby: <utter bullshit by iceicebaby deleted by pindude> [ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: pindude ]

Jedi, Why is it not available from Patagonia? Is this a closed out item, or just not available until the next No American cold season? If closed out, then you're only alternative IS individual shops. Also, some remaining inventory might have gone to their now-famous outlet stores. Only one that I know of is allowed to do mail order: the one in Dillon, MT. Don't have their phone #, but it'll be on the Patagucci site fer sure. Good luck, Pin

Okay, just got back from Jim Bridwell's show on his two climbs of the east face of Moose's Tooth ('81 with Mugs, last year with another guy whose name I can't remember!), unrepeated variations of each other. Good turnout, 70 people, maybe more, I didn't get a good count. Yeah, Bird--the living legend--has a modest, low-key attitude with a straightforward and deadpan way of telling stories, but this is not uncommon from people who do the uncommon. The audience was alert and responded with lots of laughs to his understated lines and jokes throughout the presentation. One example: slide of him in his ledge toward the end of last year's 20+ day effort, with hands in foreground. Battered, cracked hands, but only one digit is taped prominently with a wrap of 1" tape. He's just finished the story thread of the climb up to this point--which has been deadly serious--and is seemingly ready to go on with the tale and the next slide, then suddenly says: "See that there, I taped my finger back on." Lots of laughs, then further pause. "Any normal man would have died." Brought the house down. Are we easily entertained in Spokaloo? Maybe, but we weren't expecting The Man to be doing handsprings across the stage. Excellent slides. No music. Just Jim telling his account of two very hard climbs. It was one of the best blow-by-blow accounts of incredibly hard technical alpine climbing I have seen and heard, without gaps in the story, and very few gaps in the slides. I've seen a few climbing shows over the years. I'm glad it was not a slick, multi-media type a la somebody like Marc Twit. That wouldn't have fit the Bird. He signed posters for $4 at show's end. The poster is classic Bird: lighting a cigarette with the East Face of Moose's Tooth in the background (http://www.rockclimbing.com/athlete/view.php?ID=jimbridwell). The show was free--thanks Mountain Goat. If you're in Spokane, check em out(http://www.mountaingoatoutfitters.com). They're the alternative to the big gear shop, and I'm not talking REI. If the show had cost $6, it would have been worth it, not to mention the bucks would have been going toward THE MAN of modern climbing. Cheers, Pindude

quote: Originally posted by allison: Hi, I could go on and on about this, but I'm not going to. Here's what I will say: I try to buy goods that are made in places (not necessarily the USA) where workers are treated fairly. I can't say that I make 100% on this, but I do OK. My choice not to buy products made by Omega Pacific can be boiled down to one simple fact, for the sake of this discussion. The prison workers do not have the right to organize for the purpose of collective bargaining. In my mind, the discussion can stop right there, as the lack of right to such is for me a deal-breaker. Allison,In response:1. The workers ARE treated fairly. They do have the choice to work for O-P or not to. As mentioned before, this is a postive situation for everyone involved, to elaborate further: the prisoners make money and pride, the community gets better-adjusted people back into it when the prisoners are released, CRIME VICTIMS GET RESTITUTION they otherwise might not normally get, the state gets to cut its costs of caring for the prisoners, we get good biners, O-P gets to exist as a successful company. 2. Don't have the right to collective bargain? Get real! These are PRISONERS! 3. Sounds like you want to close your mind in re. to this issue, when you should be opening it. Pindude

Right on Michael. Thanks for your well-written and -thought out reply. I appreciate your clearing up my own few misconceptions, and I now have even more respect for your company. Go Omega Man! Pindude

7:30. Bring your wallet ($6), and they ask you to RSVP. Here's some scant info from Marmot's site: http://www.marmotmountain.com/events.htm Considering the man and what he can say, it'll be $6 well worth spent. -pindude

Thanks, b-rock. I got the info directly from Mtn Goat's flyer. Bird can cover a lot of topics: with all the hard climbing he's done, and all the people he's been with, he's got some amazing stories. And he STILL gets all over the world, and climbs way hard! I look forward to the Moose's Tooth comparison, and whatever nuggets--especially the non-PC ones--he is glad to share. Maybe we should take him out BEFORE the presentation! -Pindude

Jim Bridwell will give a FREE slide presentation at Mtn Goat Outfitters, Thursday night at 6:30. Bird's topic: "40 Years of climbing history, from Yosemite to Patagonia, and the Himalayas to Alaska." The man is walking climbing history, having been the king of Camp 4 from the 60's and 70's and beyond, to taking his skills all over the world. Mtn Goat is at 915 W. Broadway, Spokane. Seating will be limited and on a first-come first-served basis. Info at Mtn Goat: 509-325-9806 or info@mountaingoatoutfitters.com

Did a google search. He'll be at Marmot tonight: http://www.marmotmountain.com/events.htm For us dry-siders, he'll be in Spokane tomorrow nite, Thurs, 7 pm at Mountain Goat. I'll post info on the eastern WA discussion board. Pindude

quote: Originally posted by allison: Uh, it has less to do with "prisoners making stuff" and more to do with "not being made by people working under acceptable labor standards." Allison,What are you talking about? Be careful if you are going to make broad sweeping statements without facts and reasoning to back them up--it shows a lack of credibility. Especially if you are going to diss a manufacturer and their products. Elaborate. Be more specific. Just how do you come up with the idea that people working in prison are not working under acceptable labor standards? Show me some proof to back up your statement. Define "acceptable labor standards." Whose standards? Pindude

quote: Originally posted by whillans: How about under the West Face of Siula Grande? Joe Simpson could probably even tell us one of the best places in the northwest, and one of the most common, is the toe of the Nisqually. -Pindude

quote: Originally posted by none: Dru, What's the absolute simplest way to mind the prussick knot at the master point of the rescue, with the least effort and a minimum of gear? Just wonderin', dude. KC, I'm not Dru, but I'll bite. My favorite to use as a prussik-tender is a simple in-line belay device. I still have a double-9mm Sticht plate I take on alpine climbs to use for belaying, rapelling, and this if need be. I've also used an ATC. Am pretty sure Selters shows how in the diagrams in his "Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue." I'm just too lazy right now to go down into the basement to my little library, or to my pack where I have a phototcopy in a zip-loc bag I take on all my glacier trips. BTW, just where do you get in your quick climbing fixes living in Davenport? -Pindude

quote: Originally posted by allison: They used to be made with prison labor, not sure if they are anymore, but I don't like that and consequently have not bought any. They also had a recall a few years back for defective 'biners.... Don't be too quick to judge. I originally did, too, when I first heard, but I opened my eyes and mind. They ARE made with "prison labor," which is not a bad thing if you really think about it: The O-P manufacturing facility is located in the Airway Heights minimum security prison, just west of Spokane. Guys and gals on their way out of the correctional system have a great opportunity to contribute and earn money, self-respect, etc. The prisoners do much of the menial-labor tasks; the engineering, etc. is done by people like you and me who sleep at night on this side of the barbed wire fence. Their 'biners are not "inferior" because of prison labor. Just what are you insinuating? That the recall was a result of the prisoners doing something such as sabatoge, or at the least carelessness? Give me a break. Omega's recall would not have been because of a problem related to the prisoners; it would have been a result of the design or process as established by the NON-prisoner employees. Many other climbing-industry manufacturers have had recalls, it is not highly unusual. Omega-Pacific will give you a tour of the manufacturing facility. They make all their products to surpass industry spec's. You can see first-hand the type of controls they have in place. You would also see the pride the prisoners take in being able to positively contribute. Admittedly, my favorite 'biners are the Bill Belcourt-designed Black Diamond wire-gates. Neutrinos and Hot Wires rock. But I also have lots of O-P ovals, D's, and locking D's on my rack, which are first-rate and bombproof. Pindude

It's in the Access Issues discussion. Shortcut: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000031 Hard to believe this is no joke... pindude

I wasn't saying Euros pay less than Yanks for Barrabes gear, if I understand you right Maurice. My point had to do with the greater tariffs we end up paying in the US for Euro-made goods, which from the manufacturing or distributing end commonly drives up the retail price higher in the US compared to Canada and Europe.It's good you mention the subject of VAT, which is as you mention country-specific. This brings up the whole other subject of taxes and duties we pay on the retail side of things, something I was reluctant to bring up myself.

The problem may not necessarily be the Yank distributor. Generally speaking, Euro-made goods are less expensive in Canada than in the US due to the higher tariffs paid in the US. Of course the goods should be even less expensive for most countries in Europe at shops like Barrabes except for that shipping cost. A Spokane friend recently received from Switzerland an ice tool and paid $25 shipping, hopefully that is more than what you would get the front points from Chamonix for. I try to compare US-sold Euro gear to prices from MEC, Monod's or Mountain Magic in Banff, and Kootenay Experience or Sno-Pack in Nelson. When north of the border, I can usually find better deals in person than what is online. With the exchange rate during the Christmas holidays, I noticed many Mountain Hardwear and Marmot current-year clothing items were less expensive in Banff than in the US. Don't know what the problem is with the expensive Moser M-10 front points, maybe the distributor or someone currently working in Outdoor Retail can enlighten further. Cheers!