pindude

I wasn't part of the investigation team, but provided some of the older-style Camalots to test (that destroyed #2 left in the crack was originally mine--is it out yet?) and in return was able to see the comprehensive report Gator originally wrote. Rope was dynamic. Biner in question was thoroughly tested and was not defective. While rare, biners do break, especially when open...Goran weighed about 100 kilos and the fall factor was tremendous. While the crack is indeed pretty darn vertical, it widens up at the top such that a rope-end carabiner, when used with a short, stiff "dogbone"-type sport draw, *can* be allowed to lay in the crack sideways such that the gate stays open...the crack was the right size around the #2 Camalot for this to happen. Older style double-stemmed Camalots such as what Göran used are not pre-slung, and the manufacturer recommended from the beginning of their use in the 80s that they should be clipped with a quickdraw when clipping in the rope. As the Air Guitar crack widens at the top, placements can be made further away from the face and back in the crack, or they can walk back further, and are more likely to do so with a short, stiff draw.

Darn right. It was all in the thread here on cc.com, for those that could wade through the chaff. But someone had to make sense of it all. Cheers to you, Mike.

Received today the latest issue of R&I (#126, July 15), and see that Gator's investigation and analysis is now officially published. Gator, thanks for all the hard work you put in—and especially for your thorough, objective investigation and sound analysis. The article appearing in R&I I expect will be the same to appear in ANAM when it’s available later this summer, and obviously is a synopsis of your much more comprehensive study. Erden, we knew before you did everything and more a climbing partner and friend could—may you find peace on your journeys, and good luck on summiting Denali. Rest in Peace, Göran. ---------------- As appearing in Rock and Ice, #126: Pro Pulled, Air Guitar (5.10a), Frenchman Coulee, Washington Source: Mike Gauthier, edited by Jed Williamson On September 30, 2002, the famed adventurer Göran Kropp died from a fall while rock climbing. He was leading Air Guitar, a 65-foot 5.10a crack that requires precise nut and cam placements. Kropp was near the top of the route when he fell some 60 feet to a rock ledge. Though wearing a helmet, he sustained fatal head injuries. During the morning and early afternoon that day, Kropp and his partner took turns leading sport routes. After climbing four or five bolted aretes, Kropp took advantage of an opportunity to toprope a crack, Pony Keg (5.10a). Although Kropp looked solid in the crack he told his partner that he found the climb challenging. Kropp then decided to lead Air Guitar. Kropp started up the route, placing, in order, a small nut, two micro cams, and three small to medium cams. He fell near the top of the climb, the crux, shortly after placing a three-inch cam. That cam pulled, and the wire-gate carabiner clipped to the rope on the next cam broke, causing Kropp to fall to the ledge. Analysis: This accident resulted from a series of combined incidents. Kropp was relatively inexperienced at placing natural gear and, though a powerful athlete, was at his lead limit. The fact that the top cam pulled indicates that it was either placed incorrectly or walked to an insecure position, which is possible since he clipped all of his protection with short, stiff quickdraws. Another scenario is that Kropp dislodged the piece by himself by kicking it with his foot as he climbed past it. Regardless, experienced natural-gear leaders are able to get solid protection at or near the same place Kropp's cam pulled. Subsequent studies of the broken carabiner revealed that the wire gate was not distressed; in other words the carabiner appears to have failed because its gate was open. While a gate-closed carabiner failure is rare, carabiners with their gates open lose as much as two-thirds of their strength, making failure in a fall a real possibility. What caused the gate to open? It could have become wedged or constricted inside the crack because its short quickdraw would not let it lie outside the crack. Jammed in the crack, the carabiner could have had its gate pinned open. The short, stiff quickdraw could also have let the carabiner rotate into a cross-loading orientation, another extremely weak orientation. Leading Air Guitar pushed Kropp’s crack-climbing abilities that day. Air Guitar and other 5.10a basalt column cracks like it are steep and require technical crack-climbing skills. Mastering good crack-climbing skills takes extensive practice and training, which Kropp did not have. Air Guitar also requires the precise placement of natural protection. Learning how to properly size and place rock protection before attempting routes with hazardous fall exposure is important. Short quickdraws are best suited for sport climbing. When using natural protection, many climbers prefer slightly longer and more flexible quickdraws or slings, which provide for a smoother rope movement and decrease the chance of protection being displaced. Sidebar: Safety Tips Get in the habit of placing two pieces of protection just below the crux moves, and anywhere your protection is suspect. Doubling up also gives you an extra measure of safety in the event one piece fails in a fall. Also, when you place gear in a crack, be sure its quickdraw or sling is long enough to let the rope-end track outside of the crack. This will keep the carabiner from wedging in the crack, and having its strength compromised.

All good feedback. My main thing is having a coiled rope that doesn't need restacking. I never learned how to stack over my neck or how to coil a Butterfly so I didn't have to reflake--I'll have to try Retro's finger method with a Butterfly, and Wallstein's and Fern's neck coiling methods.

Wallstein, You're on... So you are young! Nah, it doesn't mean incompetence...some of us elders, as we get older, use guile and deceit to keep up, and try to keep young 'uns in their place. Seems like you may very well have an improvement on my French Coil. What's a dog ear? Even though I'm a wordsmith, I have to see things "hands-on" to fully understand them. I'll have to make the drive from the east side for a BBQ or Pub Club just to see how you coil, or better yet, with my new job maybe I'll be able to break away and spend at least a week in the Valley this late summer/early fall. Sounds like you've got the better job: 6 months in the Valley...I can only imagine right now. I learned a lot of my climbing there, but only on 1-2 week-long trips. In 6 months, I'm sure you'll be a climbing monster before you're done, and have lots of fodder for great stories. Have fun. --Steve Reynolds

why the especially women? what makes our small hands more special than men's small hands? I don't have this problem. Just unwind the tie-off and unfold the butterfly and lay it on the ground. You must be suck. Glad you found a system that works. I must be suck? <Big sigh> I try to be gracious, and this is where it gets me. Seriously, I merely meant women's hands tend to run smaller than men's. I'd like to see how you do your coiling over your neck such that it feeds off without tangling--that's something I could learn. I think I'll never understand women... But I'm not going to ask advice from Trask, at least not yet.

I don't mean any disrespect to Wallstein's climbing abilities or his footwork, whatever they may be. It was obvious he didn't read the original description through very carefully, in addition to never having experienced this coil (and having a special love for the French). 'Sokay, if you're indeed young Wallstein, there's lots of time for you. Cheers, pindude

actually maybe only small people do it this way no way I can stack a whole coil into one of my hands. don't forget to put your hood up first if you are coiling a wet rope over your neck ...brrrr.... Yeah, the French Coil is real hard to do for those with small hands, especially women. One way to try and alleviate it is to push the stack back along the wrist as you're nearing the end of the coil, but it's still sometimes a lot of weight to hold up for smaller people. My experience with neck-stacking is that I always have to reflake the rope after uncoiling.

Thanks, Jason, glad to know I'm not alone in the PNW as far as using this coil. I was starting to wonder. I find I don't have tangles if I'm real careful when feeding the rope onto the palm of my hand when coiling. Thanks for the copyright info...I threw that in at the end for whatever it's worth. --Steve

Wallstein, you're a young pup, aren't you? It ain't the butterfly...ends are not looped--please re-read the description. One of the biggest advantages of the French Coil is that you don't have to restack it. When you coil over the neck, you DO have to restack it if you want your rope to feed cleanly to a lead climber. It might be faster to coil over your neck when you initially coil, but it defeats the whole purpose of the French Coil, which is to have a rope that doesn't have to be restacked when you're ready to climb again. So the French Coil done on the palm of your hand is indeed faster overall than coiling over your neck, which is not "neat" in my experience when you undo that coil and are ready to lead off again.

OK, everyone learns the Butterfly and Mountaineers Coils, but both of these are limited in the name of speed and efficiency, and especially for lead or alpine climbing. The butterfly is a great coil for a rope used for top-roping only, and the only time I use the mountie coil is as an end-man on glaciers. In 1992, I was taught the French Coil by an experienced Czech climber, and it changed my life (at least in regard to dealing with ropes): no more restacking, less twists, and a lot less time wasted. I've used it almost exclusively since, and am surprised I haven't come across a description or reference of it anywhere, in books or on the net. Sorry I don't have diagrams, but below is a description of how to tie the coil. So, do any of you use it? If so, where did you hear about it and what do you think of it? For those that don't use it, what do you use for a coil? And yeah, it could be renamed because if gives freedom, but I'm sticking with French Coil. ------------- No More Restacking the Rope: The French Coil Now you can save valuable time at the belay. Better than the Mountaineer's Coil or even the Butterfly Coil is the French Coil: it adds no twists to the rope, you can carry it on your back and it feeds like a charm right off the coil--without having to flake it out or stack it--when you uncoil your lead or glacier ropes. You know the Butterfly. Instead of going from rope-middle to the 2 ends, or from the ends to the middle, you'll start at one end of the rope and work toward the other. After you've fed through at least two fully stretched double-armed lengths of one end of the rope, you can start coiling. Hold one hand--your stacking hand--out with palm up and elbow bent at about 90 degrees. Like the Mountaineer's Coil, bring successive coils to rest on top of your stacking hand by using your working hand to (a) grab successive lengths of the rope with a fully outstretched arm, (b) stack each successive length or loop toward the heel of your stacking hand, working eventually out to the fingertips (this is important--it's harder to do if you have smaller hands but it will build up those tendons) and © let the hanging ends twist on themselves if they want to do so (unlike the Mountaineer's Coil)--this avoids adding twists to your precious rope, and it's normal for the rope-bottom of each successive loop to have a twist. When you finally get to the other end of the rope, make sure the length of the tail end matches the length of the beginning end. Then make a couple wraps and tie off as if you would with a Butterfly Coil. Now the next time you unpack the rope, reverse the finishing tie-off and wrap, place the rope flat on the ground one side up or the other, and if you have done it right, the rope will magically feed off without messy tangles! (copyright S. Reynolds)

Shasta rivals our local volcanos as an excellent ski or board trip back down. The dog/standard route is Avalanche Gulch from Bunny Flats. Last year, my group had a great ride down the Hotlum-Wintun route on the east side...I don't know all the routes on Shasta, but have to highly recommend that one over Avalanche Gulch and other south- and east-side routes as far as a ski or board descent. Do a search on cc.com, or telemarktips.com for that matter, and you'll find lots more beta. Skiing there should be good from now through the next 2 months. Have fun.

Info at the obvious place: www.avalung.com So there's at least 3 people walking around on this earth (lives saved by the Avalung) who have real good reason to say bullshit to your bullshit. Not according to one guy who was saved: "He said it was not at all difficult to keep the mouthpiece in his mouth." So, the short record so far is 3 people being saved by the Avalung in real life, and I'm not aware of anyone being caught in an avalanche with an Avalung that did NOT survive (even though about 1/3 of avy deaths are due to trauma, 2/3 due to suffocation). I understand it is standard gear for some heli-ski operations, but most of my dirtbag BC ski-board buddies don't have them yet--due in part to normal $120 price tag but also due to lack of awareness of the what the device can do. I believe "the jury is still out" on the Avalung for many people, and time will tell. While I'll still do my damndest to stay off of avy terrain, I am now wearing one in addition to carrying beacon-probe-shovel. Happy turns.

If I've got this right, it'd be a lot more than chocks that climber has. Overall, that's pretty familiar real estate--east face of Chimney Rock. Dane, I believe it's "Free Friends." Isn't that the layback crux, or at least the start of it? If I remember the story right, you gave up 3 Friends because your second--Kop--didn't know how to remove them! Who got the friends? And who's the climber?! Incidentally, I was just up on Roothaan yesterday, on skis, looking at the west side of Chimney until black clouds moved in and it started snowing sideways. There's at least 5-6' of snow still up there at 7,000'. Drove in on the Hunt Creek to Horton Ridge road route, where snow blocked us about 3 miles away from the old Horton Ridge lookout site. USFS has posted along the road that vehicle access from the E. Priest Lake Rd. to Horton Ridge is now supposed to be from Indian Creek Campground, due to logging. We decided not to double back from the Hunt Creek Road, and were able to go around the logging trucks parked on the road, which were idled for the day. --Steve in Spokane

Good idea. I can see having a forum on books--would it be appropriate to roll it into web pages forum, or have it completely separate? Completely separate may be best . OK, idea seconded. Does the motion pass?

Price lowered to $500, for a limited time. --pindude

Mammut rep, How about one of the Spokane-CDA stores? How soon?

Any guesses as to who the next Ed. will be? If hiring from within, maybe our state's own Matt Stanley...or Matt Samet...maybe bring back "Editor Emeritus" Michael K? Hmmm--send in your resume now!

Jake, I recently discovered with others 4 bolts above the main wall, each with loose hangars, that need replacing--I'm talking the whole bolt, not just the hangar. Hangars are now off and I'll come back later to remove the studs and either put in a bigger bolt in same hole or coverup and maybe replace. There are at least a couple other bolts I know of, on top to be used mainly for TR anchors, that purposely were put in with hangars that swivel so they can be pulled in more than one direction depending on where the direction of pull is from. Thanks for noticing the improvements. As this is an urban area, there's always going to be some partiers, including unfortunately some real wierdos. Generally they're out just at night after it gets dark out and the glowing runway lights of Felts Field are on. Part of what we're doing with cleanup, etc. is to reestablish ownership and let our presence be known, to cut down on the weird stuff. --Steve

I never knew they were pegging climbers too. PM me Sabretooth, or call me and let me know what happened. --Steve Reynolds

1. Re. Cleaning up bolts: What do you mean "sketchy looking?" Which ones? Last year I removed a bunch of 15+ year old button heads, and replaced with new 3/8" expansion, so hopefully there are no more sketchy bolts out there on TOP, at least for TR set-ups. However, we still do have a few button heads on faces out there that need to be replaced, and that's planned soon. There are indeed lots of bolts on top, and for some climbs you'll see 3-4 bolts seemingly for one climb. As this is the urban crag, all those bolts are used by firefighters and climbers doing rescue training, and also by schools who top-rope belay first-time rappellers. Some bolts are placed near the edge for TR anchors, and some of the bolts farther back are also used by lead climbers to belay after they have topped out and are bringing up their second. 2. Re. spray paint and broken glass: If you've been out there since May of last year, you'll see we sandblasted off 95%+ of all the graffiti, and soot left over from party fires (and ALL the graffiti in the main climbing areas): all the sandblasting equipment and sand was donated, we worked 5+ days with more than 25 volunteers, and had to specially rig and belay. As some of us are contractors, we figured conservatively the sandblasting work alone was worth $35,000. Broken glass is still a *$en problem, as are paintballers. We've got the some of the deputy sheriffs making Minne part of their beat at night, the Centennial Trail Ranger also checks out the place during his shifts, and in the summer County Parks has private security patrol the front area, but there are still quite a few who get away with smashing their bottles against the rocks, virtually always in the dead of night. If you see paintballers out there, there's one group I've been trying to catch for a year--if any of you see them out there, call me ASAP at 869-1122 and I'll deal with them.

For Sale: Atomic TM.EX 191-cm skis with Karhu 7TM automatic release bindings with 33-mm shims, brakes, and heel risers. Excellent, like-new condition. Retail list is $885 ($600 for skis, $285 for bindings); will sell for $550. Both ski and binding are current year (2002-2003 ski season) models. Skied 4x: all deep powder days (12" or more), 1 at resort, 3 in backcountry. I don't have to tell most of you teleheads, but am going to give the sales pitch anyway. Many consider this tele set-up as currently THE BEST one going for backcountry and all-mountain skiing, for all ability levels. Wide enough to float on top of not only powder but also breakable crust, crud, and cut-up, AND will also ski the resort piste (groomed). Ski dimensions are 117-84-109, further spec's: http://www.atomicsnow.com/ Bindings are releasable, and are much better than the old standard releasable Voiles--this binding set-up is the full-meal deal with all the accessories, further spec's: http://www.karhu.com/cgi-local/news2.pl?index=1 I'm very happy with the skis--they are the best sticks I've ever been on--but at my 195+ lbs. I am "in between sizes" according to Atomic, and have found I need the next size down (184) to turn more easily between tight trees, which is where I often like to ski. This tele set-up is the shizzy for a big boy or girl (205 lbs and up), from beginner to expert, who will match them up with good plastic boots to drive them. If you're interested, email me at sreynold@icehouse.net

Thanks, pp, for the endorsement. Minne can get dissed because it's in an urban environment, but it's really a pretty special place. Too bad the Seattle area doesn't have anything like it. It's a killer bouldering area in addition to all its one-pitch climbs. While the event may seem commercial with all the company sponsors, that's exactly how we're able to receive prizes--the more the better--donated for the raffle and for the climbing category winners. Focus on previous comps has been on the fun, this'll be no exception. We'll have some of the locals out there Saturday who I'm sure on Sunday will be glad to take some of you out to some of the excellent limestone routes recently established around Spokane.

All cc.comers, friends, and family are invited to Minnehaha Rocks in Spokane Saturday, May 17 for a cleanup, fun outdoor climbing comp, climbers’ festival, and benefit for the Access Fund. Presented by the Spokane Mountaineers, and title sponsored by Mountain Gear, Omega Pacific, and Wild Walls. Also sponsored by REI, Mountain Goat Outfitters, All About Sports, Vertical Earth, Scarpa, Blue Water Ropes, The North Face, La Sportiva, Metolius, Petzl, Five.Ten, David's Pizza, Northern Lights Beer, Fat Tuesday's, and more. We’ll have close to 100 top-rope and bouldering routes set up, final number dependent on the number of competitors. The festival will also feature a rock shoe demo, free climbing instruction for beginners and kids, displays by local vendors, a free barbeque lunch, and an evening awards/rewards reception where we’ll raffle and award great prizes over Spokane’s best pizza and micros. Schedule: 8:00: Begin Registration, Cleanup, Raffle and T-shirt sales 10:00-4:00: Climbing activities including Rock Shoe Demo, Free Instruction, Vendor Displays 11:00-12:00: Free Barbeque and Lunch 12:00-4:00: Free Climbing Comp on dozens of top-roped and boulder problems 5:00-9:00: Awards and raffle prizes, slide show, pizza from David’s Pizza, Northern Lights beer, at Fat Tuesday’s Last year's cleanup was so successful ($50,000 worth of cleanup including sandblasting 50+ years’ worth of graffiti off rocks), we can concentrate this year more on fun stuff. The 2003 Minnehaha Climbers’ Rendezvous is a revival of the fun comps held there from the late 1980s and early 90s, but is bigger and better. All daytime activities, including the climbing comp and barbeque, are free thanks to our sponsors and volunteers. T-shirts, and raffle tickets for LOTS of great prizes, will be sold to benefit the Access Fund who have been supportive of Minnehaha Rocks since it was saved from development in the 1980s. Forms and further info will be available at the following web site: http://www.spokanemountaineers.org. To register for the fun comp and to order a T-shirt, fill out the Fun Comp Registration Form and Waiver and send them in by mail before May 6, or drop them off in person at Mountain Gear or Wild Walls in Spokane. You can also register On-site at the Rendezvous on May 17. (If forms are not available at the above web site, e-mail sreynold@icehouse.net.) The fun comp has categories for local/non-local, male/female, novice (5.8)/intermediate (5.10)/advanced (5.11+), and special age divisions for kids (12 and under), and masters (45 and over). T-shirts are $20 each prior to May 9, $25 after, and will benefit the Access Fund. Map and directions from Airport/I-90, to Minnehaha Rocks at George Shields Park: http://maps.yahoo.com/py/ddResults.py?Pyt=Tmap&ed=cCbfIOV.wikjZdPOezUtbk17kF.9waCdEnWxvSl1xVi.O75C5WqH2dX0XRu_uKytGjYT9h3u8dQXuVo8Hw--&newcsz=Spokane,+WA&newcountry=us&newtcsz=Spokane,+WA+99217&newtcountry=us&osd=n&dsd=n Camping is available at Riverside State Park: http://www.parks.wa.gov/parkpage.asp?selectedpark=Riverside&pageno=1 Still welcome are sponsors to donate raffle prizes or display. Also welcome are volunteers to act as belayers and judges. For more information, contact Steve Reynolds at sreynold@icehouse.net.

As others said, pin flags--aka surveyor stake flags--don't work well for all the reasons cited. Check out this previous "know-it-all" discussion. I'd put my 15-year-old wands up against the NPS (3' dark green bamboo and 2" square of dark red duct tape), or any others for visibility and function. My wands: - 3' stout dark green bamboo from garden store - split top 4" with knife - tie overhand knot through split with 2 colors of 12"+ strips of real surveyor (heavy-duty) flagging, glo-orange plus any other contrasting color - tape and secure top with 3M Scotch reflective tape for night vis I store these suckers in my basement away from light so the flagging doesn't fade over time, then pull out the wad for glacier climbs or ski trips, and it does impress the chicks...