pindude

Go, Omega Man. Yeah, he was the same dude who helped us clean up Minnehaha Rocks in Spokane. Since we sandblasted a ton of graffiti off most of our climbing rocks in May, we've yet to have one new incidence of spray-paint. Now, it's just paintballers shooting at our new reader board and making a mess of the landscaped area right out of the parking lot. Maybe Omega Man can jump on and clean up these idiot paint-ballers, like he took care of Buddy Dean and Moose. --pindude [ 08-12-2002, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: pindude ]

Yes, Aaron Feuerstein is a great man for what he did: rebuilding the company in its same location in Lawrence, MA . This 60 Minutes segment originally aired in March, as a juxtaposition to the Enron debacle. Malden Mills continues to produce what is likely the best-quality synthetic fleece in the world, including brand names such as Polartec and the new Regulator, used by our outdoor tech clothing makers such as Mountain Hardwear, Marmot, Arc'Teryx, Patagonia, many others. Yes, they are in Ch. 11, and while the exact future of the company is in doubt, it is thought by many they will survive. Haven't heard the current status of their Ch. 11 filing, but further news is at this Outdoor Retailer site. Support Malden Mills: Buy Polartec and Regulator fleece!

Certainly not one of the dumbest things I've done, but one of the fun things about urban cragging--when gaping away at you are friends, neophytes, gomers, and the general non-climbing public--is to make up new belaying signals... quote: Originally posted by forrest_m in the "The Stupidest Thing You've Ever Heard Climbing" thread: A friend of mine was walking by one of the lower crags at exit 38 and saw two very young guys working a route. The guy on the ground was useing a gri-gri, of course. About the third bolt, he gets a worried expression on his face and yells up to his partner "Are you in a good place?" "Why?" replied the climber with sudden panic. A pause. "Dooood. You're the hand." (for anyone not familiar, the gri-gri has some of those cute petzl icons on the side to show you which direction to feed the rope through. One is a climber, the other a hand) While cragging today, our belay signals included "I'm the hand" and "You're the climber." quote: From the new Climbing mag's Overheard: "Coming, coming!"--a sketched out and shaky new leader a couple of feet above his bolt at Smith Rock. And when ready to be lowered from the anchors by the right partner, and in honor of the above, one of our climbers today yelled, "I'm coming I'm coming!" This one did turn heads. --pindude

Describe it and its yours. Hopefully I will be able to respond right away, my PC here has gone down 2x in the past 5 weeks... --pindude

I started this thread, so feel the responsibility to continue to pass on appropriate info. Memorial service for Bill on July 23, Tuesday in Richland, as sent to FCCC this a.m. by Paul Certa, Bill's climbing partner: quote: Bill's parents will be holding a simple service in Utah. No formal memorial services are planned for Richland, WA. However, there are plans for on informal remembrance gathering in Richland on Tuesday, July 23rd; his parents plan to attend. Please contact me directly for more information, preferably by email. Since I have not communicated with Paul, I am reluctant to post his personal contact info he provided at the end of the above msg to the FCCC, but you are welcome to e-mail me and I will pass it on ASAP. --Steve Reynolds, Spokane

For those wanting more detail, I received further info in a message sent this morning to FCCC members from Paul Certa, Bill's long-time partner: quote: I learned of Bill's death from his parents on Tuesday. I just received confirmation of some of the facts and circumstances surrounding his death from the American Embassy in La Paz. Bill Robins died on Sunday, July 7th, 2002 in Bolivia on the Cerro Condoriri. The American Embassy in La Paz learned of Bill's death on July 9th through a phone call from their security patrol. The security patrol received a call on July 8th from the head of Adventure Company Climbing. She informed the Embassy that Bill and his climbing partner, Gabriel Llanos, were killed in a climbing accident on Sunday morning, July 7th. A rescue team recovered Bill and Gabriel and brought them both to La Paz. According to the forensic doctor at the Hospital del Torax in La Paz, the cause of death was trauma and hypothermia due to a 200 meter fall. From looking at Bolivian news reports, I believe that the cause of the accident was an avalanche. I will post an update if I learn of more details. Bill's parents will be holding a simple graveside service in Utah as soon as arrangements can be made (possibly next week). No formal memorial services are planned for Richland, WA. However, his parents will be visiting soon and there may be an informal gathering at that time. My condolences to Bill's friends and family. Controversial, yes, but a big influence on NW climbing, and he will be missed. --Steve Reynolds, Spokane

Another tragedy in NW Climbing. The following post I received this morning through the FCCC (Frenchman Coulee Climbers Coalition) e-mail list: quote: Subject: Bill Robins: RIP I'm very sorry to report that Bill Robins was killed in a climbing accident in Bolivia. I don't have any further details at this time. My condolences to friends and family. Brian in SLC

Trask, Don't know about a plastic surgeon with this specialty...but I am sure there's a crazy polish massage therapist who would be glad to help. He's probably had lots of practice on horsecock. Good luck! --pindude

Thanks, Jedi, for the answer. Annie started the base camp gig around '93-'94. Interestingly, her job immediately before that was as an airline stewardess--she went directly from being a jet-setter with almost all the amenities, to living in the dirty snow with smelly climbers! She was a lot of fun to talk to, and I bet she broke a few hearts, too. quote: Originally posted by Jarred Jackman: This is so funny, does anybody else think this jobe individual sounds like a total lame-ass. Careful, Jarred. If you read back through the thread, Jobe came around after he himself read through the replies of others. So, no, he's not a "total lame-ass," but you could be (I doubt if you are either) by not READING and THINKING before you WRITE! Please don't remind me of crazypolishbobbinghead. --Steve

Glad to see the main thread here came to a resolution. Jobe posted that he has come around, so no need to keep floggin' him with horsecock or whatever. To digress a bit... quote: Originally posted by MtnHigh: I just returned from the Alaska Range/Talkeetna and experienced similar delays with the air taxi service we used...When flying back to Talkeetna coordinate with Lisa or whoever the base camp manager is at the time... MtnHigh, or others who might know, I thought sweet little Base Camp Annie was the main base camp manager? She used to be the ONLY one all climbing-season long, beginning about 8 years ago. I've gotten a little out of touch with what is going on up there, but was wondering if Lisa is now her replacement, or if there is some sort of new rotation deal for base camp managers that the air taxi services set up. Hmmm... --pindude

Shin bash and shin chafing? I recall this as a problem since the first plastic boots came out, with Koflach and Asolo. I didn't realize this problem existed so much with Invernos as experienced by Payaso, Jedi, and mentioned by Iain. I've got a wide foot, and still have not found for me a better or more comfortable-fitting plastic boot than my Invernos, which I regularly use for Glacier Peak-type approaches in late summer (I don't always approach alpine in plastics). The trick for me is that the inner plastic boot fit my foot snugly such that if there is movement in my boot, it's the inner liner moving against the outer plastic shell. I carefully try to have just the right thickness of socks: when I first bought the boots I used one thinner pair, now that the foam liner is getting packed out I have to wear a liner sock and at least a medium-thick outer pair. I'm lucky that my feet don't sweat inordinately. Back to shin-bash. My wife, who is also a figure skater, taught me how to tie my boots (yes, better than my mom did), somewhat along the lines of what Eric is saying. Between each set of hooks, cross the laces over each other making an "x" at mid-tongue (at least 1x between each pair of hooks, and then 2x in the critical spot where the boot goes up from the flatter instep to the more vertical ankle--hope you can follow me). This bit of friction helps hold the laces more snug. As I'm tying the laces moving up--above the critical point I mention where at least your last 2 sets of hooks/eyelets are--I tie the laces more loosely so the top of the boot has more room to flex for the shin. And on approaches with the similar Scarpa plastic tele boots, I'll avoid buckling at all the upper ankle of the boot. I've hiked in on miles of dry trail in my T-Races without problems. I dunno, maybe Scarpas were made for my feet. Also, another trick when bringing your laces around each hook is to bring the lace around the top, first, then wrap it down around the hook--I've even seen some people cinch the lace around the hook and back under the lace before they bring it back over toward the middle of the tongue. Essentially, I try to keep the laces tight and snug below that critical point to keep the heel from sliding up, and then I tie around the upper eyes more loosely to maximize the amount of flex around the upper ankle and avoid shin bash. If shin bash is a serious problem, the "X-pattern" can also be done to some extent between eyelets of your inner boot, but you have to prelace this and it's a bit of a hassle. I've witnessed, and even helped some of, a few hundred mountaineering students over the past few years--shin bash is a problem that seems to affect at least 10% of our classes, and women generally more than men. The down side of shin-bash is that once your shin bones are bruised, it often takes a whole season before you can recover from it. This lacing set-up, however, seems to alleviate much of it, but like others have said, number one, fit is the key. Good thread, enough words from me. I especially liked the suggestion of nylon knee-highs, makes sense, but why not go all the way and get full-length panty hose? Somebody needs to try it and write a TR... Here's to happy feet , pindude

Matt, Thanks for the TR. Too bad you didn't discover more of the good routes, including vertical stuff from 5.8-5.11--it is still best to go there first time with someone who knows the area. Yes, the north side of Highway Rock doesn't have any walls...reason why I tried to direct you around the south side, from east to west. The rock is indeed granite, but like I said originally, it is not as sound as what you find in L-worth and Index. Of the 3 climbs you were on, I cannot remember their actual names. FYI for others reading here, I recall there's only one instance where 2 bolts are as close as 3' apart. One of those climbs on the west side and to the north indeed has a newer bolt 3' from an original bolt, placed by the FA'ist in the name of safety to keep a falling climber above a projection (knowing this you might be able to tell now when you look at it) just before you top out on that climb. I'm not trying to defend bolting 3' apart, I'm just saying what is. Around that side I don't recall any 15-20' runouts above ledges (could this be some of the chopping you mention?), unless it was fairly easy going or there was possibly natural pro to be placed. Hopefully when you checked out Gibralter Rock you looked east across little Northrup Canyon and also ran up to the base of Picnic Table Rock--many good routes there including Dr. Ceuse and others around the chimney. Putting up FA's around Banks, on face or crack, takes quite a bit of work and cleaning. Those routes on the north end of the west side have already had many man-hours of clean-up. Traffic will take care of much of the little loose stuff (one reason why I said take a brush), including the detritus leftover after wintertime, but again, like I said earlier, much of the granite at Banks Lake will always be suspect. Just as well, as this will keep some of the riff raff away. Don't know exactly what you mean about careless placement and shoddy chop jobs, including empty bolt holes on that side; maybe I'll find out this weekend as I'm headed out there for the first time since last year. Cheers, Steve

Mike, Too bad there's not more "loose cannons" like you. Thanks for all you do. May things quiet down for you and you get some days off! Cheers, Steve

quote: Originally posted by David Parker: They need to get the Libery Ridge out of "50 Classic Climbs". Too many yahoos totally underestimate that climb. Well-accomplished climber buddy of mine--definitely not a yahoo--was on Lib Ridge about 10 years ago, and took an egg-sized rock to his Petzl Ecrin (first-generation) helmet. He is normally very attentive and aware. The rock was totally unheard, and unseen, until it nailed him. Sent him right to his knees, and he was glad he didn't fall (he wouldn't have gone anywhere, he was roped to competent partners). The rock broke through the plastic, and lodged right into the top of the helmet, having not quite gone halfway. Made for a great souvenir, along with the retired helmet. He was glad it stopped short of his skull. He might have been his own patient in the Brain Injury Rehab Institute he ran at the time in Spokane. --pindude

quote: Originally posted by Coondog: Guy at Index was telling us about some 'Third Pillar?' full day 5.9 arete just outside the park that's outstanding that I wish I hadn't completely blanked the name of... Third Pillar of Dana Yeah, I guess this could be called an "ultra-classic." --Steve

quote: Originally posted by pindude: Perhaps if you didn't hide behind an avatar, you wouldn't be so vehement. I may have wasted my time responding to you, in hopes you might see the light. What'll it be, dude, more ranting and name-calling, or honor and intelligence? crazypolishilliterate, There went down the toilet a chance for you to help restore, for some of us, our faith in humanity. Obviously, the answer is the former. Keep your crazy thoughts and yourself on your shitter in Houston with your muscle buddies, it's where you belong. You're not welcome in our mountains. However, you do provide good entertainment on this board, albeit in the form of thread creep. My apologies, Greg, for contributing to the wayward ramblings of a madman. May you get the best of care, and be back climbing hard soon. --Steve

crazypolishbob: "hey pinhead, do you actually know what you are talking about or you just shoot your mouth off and in major dumb way? so let me ask you this- you say fuck chiropractor or fuck the massage therapist. what is your opinion based on- medical facts of the conditon. are you giving dx here?" You're a real laugh, crazy, your credibility can be summed up in your name. And you've already proven yourself with some of your previous posts. Can you actually read? I said "fuck the chiropracter advice," especially for a knee. Do I need to spell out why to you? And yes, I do have a bias: MD's are generally much more capable than chiropracters, especially when it comes to orthopedists caring for knees...while I do realize there are many great and capable chiropracters out there, who provide appropriate care. I certainly did NOT say fuck the massage therapist...what I said was that a MT was NOT appropriate, especially to seek out an opinion first before that of an MD, as Michael Layton advised. So don't take this all so personally. Sheesh! I have nothing against MTs (except YOU now), nor indicated such in my original post. Your reading ability and judgment are obviously clouded by something. I have many friends who are licensed MT's, and I have received great MT care myself, including for Tx. "what is your opinion based on- medical facts of the conditon. are you giving dx here?" You say you're a health practitioner, and I hope you can read. Do you think I gave a Dx? For your sake, I hope not. What I did do was give general advice re. use of our health-care system. To put the shoe on the other foot, are you saying you yourself should be seeing Greg for his Dx?...I don't think so. "i work as a massage therapist and let me tell you something- just saw a new patient today reffered by an MD (a suregeon) for a tx on a knee. So what do you say to that?" Good for you dude (and no, I won't sink down to your level and start calling you derogatory names without cause in reality), I'm glad for you, really. Yes, MD's send patients to MT's for Tx, although it is not as common as sending them to PT's. "simple case of inflamation in it band." Huh? Put it in understandable English, dude. "you are so full of crap that it's not even worth my time to dwell on your misinformed and ill logic. get you facts straight." Whoa, dude, you're going further out there... Whose facts aren't straight? You obviously did spend time to dwell on it, but certainly not enough TO READ AND UNDERSTAND IT CLEARLY! "surgery is the last resort, try some other things first. get a proper diagnosis, get a second opinion even third." Waddayaknow? I somewhat agree, although I doubt Greg's insurance will pay for 3 opinions. "hey poser- if you don't work in a medical field- shut up. if you do work, your advice was down right un- ethical." I worked in the medical field as an office manager for a very successful private MD practice, and worked in hospital administration, but chose to leave it for better opportunities. I am still involved in the health industry on several levels. Okay...exactly how was it unethical, Mr. logical crazypolishbob? Judging by your rant here, dude, you are the LAST Massage Therapist I would see. I certainly would never climb with you. Did you have a bad day? Please re-read the WHOLE thread and my message--slowly, carefully, AND sober. You shot yourself in the foot, or worse. Perhaps if you didn't hide behind an avatar, you wouldn't be so vehement. I may have wasted my time responding to you, in hopes you might see the light. What'll it be, dude, more ranting and name-calling, or honor and intelligence? --Steve in Spokane

Damn! I think you're really on to something, Dru. Contrary to aggressive and sal, sounds to me like this could become a real juggernaut...I can think of all kinds of doctoral theses and continuing studies, grants and monies provided for such, further fund-raising for new specialized enviro sub-groups ("Save the Iceworms!", iceworm rights activists, iceworm eco-terrorists), PAC groups, etc., leading to influence of new legislation and...the SAVING of our glaciers! I wanna continue to climb on alpine and glacier ice until I'm too old to swing my tools! And I want my children to, too! Go for it Dru, we're behind ya!

quote: Originally posted by michael_layton: See a PT, chiropractor, or even a massage therapist before seeing a MD. Drugs and surgery are a last resort. Hope you get well soon. Naaawww...forget going to your regular GP or family doc, who should gladly give you a referral to the best orthopedist he or she knows (or will send you to your request of Zorn, who seems to be the winner on this board so far). Maybe you should just go to an iridologist, reflexologist, astrologist, maybe even somebody who speaks in tongues. No, wait, how about a voodoo witch doctor! Yeah, that's the ticket! Heal fast! Of course (Michael and other doctor-haters, this is for you), no MD who is worth her or his salt will carte blanche prescribe drugs or put you under the knife. He/she will take or read your history, listen to you, conduct appropriate tests and imagery, establish a correct diagnosis, may share with you his or her thinking process, and inform you of the logical, appropriate options--oftentimes it is only too apparent. Get real, Michael Layton, you're afraid of doctors. You need to get over it, and not spread bad info to others because of it. I know the INW med system and personnel, and could help you over here, but it sounds like Zorn is the one in the Sound area. See him sooner rather than later to at least get your diagnosis and know what you're up against. Knee problems should not be put off any longer than possible, but you will be in competition with Zorn's other patients. If Zorn is any good, and it sounds like he is (and hopefully he is covered under your insurance), you probably have a long wait time to get an appt, and you may need your GP or family doc to pull strings to try and get you in to him sooner. IMHO, fuck the chiropracter advice (especially for a knee!). A massage therapist is not appropriate either, obviously. Your orthopedist will zero in on your problem and prescribe the best, most appropriate treatment. That's what he spent the big bucks and all the years in college, med school, and as an intern and resident, and then sharpened his abilities through the experience of years of correctly diagnosing and treating likely thousands and thousands of people using the best that health care has to offer. When you're ready for it, Zorn or whoever you get as an orthopedist will likely know the good PT's around you (your GP may know, for that matter) who are climbers or skiers, to help you the best. It is more important for your rehab that your PT be a climber/skier, so you zero in on the appropriate exercises that may make you stronger than before. Use our great health system to its fullest, and remember that you are your own best advocate when using it. Take nothing for granted, and continue to ask questions. Greg, good luck, and--really--heal fast. --pindude [ 06-20-2002, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: pindude ]

quote: Originally posted by Marty: [QB]Matt, Didn't you buy an Inland NW. Rockclimbs book? It has all the routes (with the exception of the ones at the Golf course) that are even near clean and all are bolted. The cracks and trad climbing could be good but at the moment the are nothing but moss and dirt fests.QB] Marty, This sounds like an obvious troll, but I'll bite. "The cracks...are nothing but moss and dirt fests"--huh? The cracks are not any dirtier than what you would normally find, and are way cleaner than what is on the west side of the Cascade crest. Additionally, the cracks at Banks are not any dirtier than the faces; in fact, when exploring or on newer climbs, I spend more time brushing the faces than I do cleaning out cracks. There are many Banks Lake climbs, both bolted and crack, that ARE clean and are not listed in your book. Banks Lake is a big place, and the climbing scene is relatively quiet. The issue is more that there is not much traffic at Banks, so that even on established climbs including some of those listed in your book, some further cleaning is still appreciated. --Steve

quote: Originally posted by gapertimmy: my protest involved getting some no trail fee stickers and putting them on my truck.. i'm a BAD BOY Now THIS might be a sticker I would put on my rig...where'd ya get 'em timmy? --pindude

quote: Originally posted by Matt Anderson: Thanks, It sounds like there are sea cliff's there? If so, is renting a possibility on the lake. Where are the cliffs that are only accessible by water? matt Lake cliffs, yes, Banks is a 30-mile long man-made lake formed by Grand Coulee Dam. I haven't done any boat climbing there myself, but I'm pretty sure you can rent one out of maybe Electric City or at least the Grand Coulee area. You'll probably want to check it out before a busy weekend. You'll get surf/waves from wind and ski boats, the latter of which is out in force on hot weekend days. INW Rock Climbs does not cover Banks boat climbing; the only reference I've seen is in Climbing #102, article by Dave Whitelaw. He doesn't give much away, says there are about 30 routes on the islands west of Highway Rock, and this was early in the development of this area in 1987. The Whitelaw boat routes don't get much traffic. Consider carrying at least a toothbrush...I typically pack for Banks a selection including a standard painter's wire brush and a small whisk broom, even for established routes as this area is still pretty new. If you're doing some exploring, an essential tool for FA's may be a crowbar for the time-bomb blocks. Look out for fishermen or paddlers down below as they are fairly quiet on the lake. All in all this is a pretty cool place, the views while climbing above the water remind me of the Roger Dean Yes album covers from the 70's. Spokane is another 1.5-2 hrs east on Hwy 2. If you come into town here, one or two climbers at Mtn Gear may know about the routes, but I think your best beta will be in INW Rock Climbs, and Climbing #102 for the boat climbs. Lon of Mtn Goat for sure climbs there, so you if you're in town you'll have to stop in his shop too. If you're staying in the Banks or GC area, you'll have go to the dam and take in the 10 pm laser light and fireworks show. There's not a lot of action in town, but after a few beers it can be pretty dam entertaining. Like Dave says, we're looking forward to a TR. --Steve in Spokane

Matt, The only printed guide is Bland's Inland NW Rock Climbs (http://www.inlandnwclimb.homestead.com/inlandnwclimb.html). Here's the only online info I'm aware of, and it's from the same guide: http://www.kxly.com/outdoors/climbing/ However, Bland in his guide took great liberties with naming routes at Banks, as he renamed most of them, and even some of the crag names. Eventually there will be a new guide for Banks that will be accurate, and more up-to-date. What he calls "Roadside Rock" is actually Highway Rock, where there are the most climbs...my favorites are on the lake (west) side of the rock, and you will find both sport and trad as you walk around Highway Rock from the east side, to the south, and up or down (including rappelling from top-rope bolts, for which you will need 2 ropes) to the west. Some of the lakeside climbs start from the shore, and are 2+ pitches in length. Beware of poison ivy immediately as you leave your car, and also rattlers, especially if you are exploring away from climber trails. There are bats in some of the cracks, as evidenced by guano (one spot on east side of Highway Rock as you go north from road, I don't think 2 climbs there are worth it). Granite is not as sound as L-worth or Index, and most of the climbs are still fairly new, so test each hold and beware the occasional movable big block, including on established bolted routes. I think we'll always be dealing with some "portable" holds at Banks Lk--even after many of the routes get more traffic--due to its relative lack of soundness and the weathering it gets. Other good (from easy to hard) climbing is in Northrup Canyon (Gibraltar Rocks in INW Rock Climbs), south of Highway Rock and along the dirt road directly east of the boat launch and campground. There is an obvious pull-out on the left, with a picnic table and ramp for unloading horses. From there, look on both sides of the canyon...there are more, and a greater variety of, climbs on the rock to the east, which is actually Picnic Table Rock (not "East Gibralter Rock"). The big rock to the west is the actual Gibraltar Rock. Lots of good bouldering around there too. For mostly others' sake, it is not ethical here to have bolts next to cracks (how long will the remaining ones last?), or to write the route names at the base of climbs a la France. Lastly, I just heard that 4 or so of the sport routes you first see at Highway Rock, when walking from east to south, have had the hangers removed. I haven't climbed there since last fall, but am getting rehabbed and am almost back on the horse, so will be out there and will confirm soon. Regardless, you'll have fun there. --Steve in Spokane [ 06-17-2002, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: pindude ]

quote: Originally posted by crazyjz: CFR 1926 requires construction dudes ( and dudettes ) to use full body harnesses, although these are typically clipped in the back. There is no prohibition against a front tie in if the harness is so designed. These laws were designed around extensive testing by the American National Standards Institute. All in all I don't know what to think about all this. We sandblasted all the f&%#$n graffiti off the main climbing walls at Minnehaha in Spokane over the past month or so (enjoy urban climbing on fresh rock next time you're Spokane-way)...one of our main sandblast dudes originally used his construction full body harness to hang from, and he was as uncomfortable as I've seen anyone hang in a harness--he was complaining pretty loudly too. While it may be construction-approved, that doesn't make it comfortable (or maybe any safer?). I'll take a wide-waist-belted good seat harness any day, like a Misty Mtn Caddy, Petzl Gourou, or better yet, a Yates Big Wall or other harness meant to hang out in. --pindude

Okay, this is second-hand, but reliable, and worth relating for this discussion. Two friends of mine were on Liberty Bell this past weekend, and crossed paths with an AAI (the original Am Alpine Inst, not Alpine Ascents Intl) and AMGA-certified guide who was leading another party. According to the guide--my buds didn't ask his name--the AMGA will be releasing a study (whose?) detailing why chest harnesses are dangerous and are no longer to be used, including for glacier travel. The guide says AAI no longer uses chest harnesses. Any AAI, AMGA-certified, or other guides out there who are in the loop and know about this study, or can relate details? --pindude