pindude

What I can pass on: Much has been printed in the local paper, and much is known by the climbers who frequent the Rocks of Sharon. I don’t want to screw the pooch, as the real estate deal that will save Big Rock and the RoS is presently in closing, and should happen “sometime later this month.” If/when it does, Big Rock and much of the property containing the Rocks of Sharon will transfer from private hands to public. We’ll all know when it happens, as the news will be publicized and there will be a public ceremony. Access has not been an issue for climbers and others who show respect when entering the area, and we as climbers have tried to keep a low public profile since the PR debacle two years ago. I don’t have Marty’s book in front of me; indeed it shouldn’t be any different from the time his book was printed: from the Palouse Highway, follow Stevens Creek Road to the south. However, it should be pointed out the couple spots near the end of the road where parking is acceptable. I tried to place markers for these 2 park spots in Google Earth’s Community layer, but didn’t have the patience. Here’s coordinates you can punch in: Parking Spot #1: 47 deg. 34’ 06.8” N, 17 deg. 17’ 22.1” W For vehicles without clearance this spot is just before a small ditch an adjacent property owner had to dig to drain flood water from his property. When the property is purchased, we’ll have to place a culvert here. The road is the middle fork you come to at the end of the public portion of the road. Parking spot #2: 47 deg. 34’ 21.9” N, 17 deg. 17’ 22.2” W Only about 5’ walking distance away from parking spot #1, this spot is for high-clearance vehicles that can clear the ditch—a Toyota 4WD P/U can, a Subaru can’t. It’s the large, fairly level bladed-out area just south of Big Rock. Please don’t drive beyond this up the hill; it’s only about a 10’ hike uphill to Big Rock from here. This will likely be the established parking area once the property is in public hands. Regarding the the $46,000, and for those of you who would like to donate or become involved: The $46K amount is what was promised to be paid in addition to the land being swapped in order to obtain the 80-acre Rocks of Sharon parcel. The Spokane Mountaineers as a club have pledged to make up any difference in the $46K amount needed, so that is not an issue that would keep the deal from taking place. Outside of the club, many individuals have donated—and others have expressed intent to donate—to contribute to the $46K needed. The Spo Mounties don’t want to take away the opportunity from any individuals who would like to make a tax-deductible contribution and be a part of this important conservation effort. The payment of the $46,000 will be part of the closing, thus the original announcement by the Spo Mounties for individuals to donate by Sept. 9. The announcement has not been updated, but because the closing date has been pushed back, individuals still have the opportunity to donate. I don’t know of a drop-dead date. The property will be part of the overall public reserve managed by the Dishman Hills Natural Area Association, who also provided the acreage for which the RoS is being swapped for. They are a 501©3 nonprofit, while the Spo Mounties are not; thus the DHNAA is more appropriate to receive all money for this project. As mentioned at the Spo Mounties website, checks should be made out to the DHNAA—you should also reference the Rocks of Sharon acquisition and the Spokane Mountaineers. Once the deal is closed, we’ll have much work to do to rehab the area and provide for appropriate parking and access. If more than the $46K is collected, that will go toward the improvements that will need to be made. If you’re interested in helping out you can contact me or the Spo Mounties. Sorry to hear about the new graffiti at Minne's Don Q. I'm sure it will get removed before or during next spring's cleanup. Steve Reynolds

Of course you're welcome to come here olyclimber. Big drive, ha! You can practically coast coming off the Cascade crest. Drive time from Seattle is about 4 hours, but I hear a lot of folks claim they do it in less than 3. I don't have good accessible pics I can easily post, but am sure others will oblige.

OK, I think some order is being restored in the Spokane area. Turns out the person responsible for many of the bolts being removed up top—but perhaps not all—is a long-time honored denizen of the Spokane climbing scene, and a good friend of mine. While this person indeed was cleaning up with the best of intentions, and is likely the person who does the most cleaning up of trash and weeds (Minne has a huge knapweed problem) on a regular basis, they were removing selective bolts without previously speaking with others of us who climb and do the greatest share of teaching and training there. It's true there has been a proliferation of bolts on top of Minne in the last few years. At this point, we’re moving forward and taking the opportunity to ensure we have the minimum amount of sound anchors for the variety of the uses seen out at Minne—instruction for climbing, belaying, rappelling and rescue, rescue training, top-roping, and leading. So we’ll start with the anchors on top, and then move onto the faces, where there are many bolts that are old and need to be replaced, and where discussion and consensus will be reached before any new bolts are added. There are also questions of how we can better manage Minne and the overall park. I don’t necessarily want to be the point person, as this should be democratic, but I’m willing to start the ball rolling. Anyone interested is willing to contact me. I apologize for coming on strong in the first place, and for offending anyone, including especially Dave, Marty, and other eastern Washington climbers. In my last post I wrote that McLellan is “not destination-worthy for out-of-towners,” in part because that was my belief, but even more so because I’d like to see the area protected for at least the local climbers. Talking to Dave, and he’s right, McLellan is destination-worthy, as well as a lot of other Spokane-area climbing. He describes it as world-class, and it’s true. I take for granted that we have so many places to crag around here, not just in the surrounding area within a couple hours’ drive, but also within the metropolitan Spokane-Coeur d’Alene area. Nearby and close enough for lunchtime or evening climbing we’ve got Minnehaha, Dishman, Deep Creek, Post Falls (Q’emiln Park), and Tubbs Hill. Within an hour or even half-hour for many folks are the Rocks of Sharon, McLellan, and Tum Tum. A couple hours away or less are Metaline Falls, China Bend, Laclede, the Pend Orielle area, and the central Washington desert area including Frenchman Coulee and Banks Lake. The aforementioned include a variety of rock types: granite, limestone, basalt. A day trip in our area will get you on the Selkirk Crest, including Chimney Rock, for stellar alpine granite. Weekend trips from Spokane-CDA and the list is endless, and includes incredible alpine in 4 states and 2 provinces. So, out-of-towners, feel welcome to climb around here. We've got plenty of cragging to go around. Yeah, do have it good here in our area, and good is going to come out of the question I initially raised here.

This'll probably disappoint you Iain... I climbed out at McLellan today, which is a small, quiet untrodden crag that sees very little traffic. It's not destination-worthy for out-of-towners, believe me, but is a peaceful, mostly natural area, perfect for us locals for a half-day or evening. I've had a very small hand in a couple of the routes out there, but by and large the person who can take the most credit for the area is Dave Stephens. Short single-pitch granite, mostly sport and some cracks. State Parks-owned. Named after the McLellan family who live in the area, some of whom are climbers themselves, and incidentally are related to my main climbing partner. McLellan is developed so that it's made for lead climbing with lower-offs so the sensitive top areas of the rock aren't impacted. Well thought out, and the opposite of Minne. My partner and I were the only ones out there , and I gotta mention that in the middle of my thrashing around, Dave, Arden, and Tizzy walked up. We had a good discussion and made peace. Thanks, Dave. Now I just need to meet Marty away from cc.com and in person.

Iain said: Yes, very entertaining. Looks like I'm not going to get any on-topic answers here, but at least it’s good for quite a few laughs. A few things to respond to here, sorry I’m not going to take the time to come up with a song for you all. Bigbro said: Some people on this site...Dave and Marty? You've got to be kidding. Two things: The posters on cc.com are not representative of all Spokane area climbers, and Dave and Marty represent the extreme fringe of the narrower sport climbing community—they certainly do NOT represent “low impact” climbing! Talk to me in person, Bigbro: I’ll objectively enlighten you. I like virtually all types of climbing, from trad to sport, and I have always believed in low-impact climbing. Yes, 5 anchors is excessive. I’ve never put in 5 anchors above a line, nor have I been with folks who have done so. (Yes, I’d like to know the route fatboy was referring to with 5 anchors, too.) When bolts on top of Minne’s walls have been replaced over the last 20 years, myself and the others I’ve worked with have done it judiciously. In several instances at the top of Minne, other folks have added additional bolts mostly at the very edge, I’m assuming because they don’t want to use longer slings to rig TR setups. Bottom line is this: For safe instruction, for beginners learning how to climb, rappel, and belay, and to teach and train for rescue techniques (professional and volunteer rescue org’s), you need SOME anchors that are placed AWAY from the very edge. At the top of Minne, there are few opportunities to place artificial pro—thus the need for bolts on top. And I'm talking about anchors away from the edge not on all routes, but intermittently on a few spread out over mostly the main cliff as you go from end to end. The very urban crag of Minne has traditionally been an instructional/learning area for the uses I’ve listed, and is THE area for such in the greater area. It was saved from development (the property was purchased and turned into a public park) by the very climbers and rescue folks who teach and train there. Minne traditionally has, and continues to be, "cleaned up" both informally and formally by many including myself. Minne was massively cleaned up—graffiti and garbage removal, among other things—in a $50,000, 200+ person effort 4 years ago by the overall community. Were Marty or Dave/Roadstead ever involved in any these purchase/clean-up efforts at Minne? Have they done anything to improve or confirm access or clean up other areas? Interestingly, when the bolts on top were chopped 2 years ago, and we needed to replace them then, fatboy was among the first to offer his rotodrill to do the work—which I appreciate. When we replace the missing bolts, we will again do it judiciously and minimize the impact with the bottom line of safety in mind. Roadstead/Dave Stephens said: Marty Bland said: Dave, Marty: I never thought the two of you or those in either of our climbing circles had anything to do with the bolts being removed from the top of Minne. This is a strange case where some maverick who hasn’t a clue thinks he’s doing the right thing. Generally, I am diplomatic, and in both your cases over the past few years I’ve held back to give you both the benefit of the doubt and to prove yourselves. Well, prove yourself you both do, but of what I’ll let you each figure it out. I give up on you two. Dave, you say I “don’t care about McLellan?” Where did you get that? What in hell are you rambling on about? Never mind, I don’t need to hear a response from you. Marty, the topic I’ve brought up here has nothing at all to do with Dishman. It’s even more different than apples and oranges. Your Dishman “anti-bolt cleanup party” would not have happened had you and others shown up like you said you were going to. Another act of dishonor for you in a long list: jeopardizing our climbing access to certain crags, chipping and placing artificial holds on lines you can’t climb, stealing other’s projects, constantly dissing other climbers and generally stirring up dissension, to name a few. And I've been dealing with missing/chopped bolts since before you started climbing. Both of you do the most to put the joke in Eastern Washington climbing on this board, and skew the IQ on this side of the Cascade crest. I could go on, but won’t. I don’t have the time to waste, and I’m not going to respond to any more illogical, antagonistic, off-topic personal attacks by the likes of Dave Stephens and Marty Bland. On the other side of the coin, thanks for your support Val and others. I no longer expect to discover the answer to my question on cc.com; I’m sure I’ll find the answer on my own sooner or later. Meanwhile on this board, feel free to entertain including posting any of your favorite songs.

Dave, "New bolt cop"? I'm not sure what you're talking about. Unless you're just giving me a gentle elbow in the ribs, then you got me. Bolt placement at Minne normally has been a cooperative, community effort, especially the TR anchors up on top. I may be jumping on this issue, which may now make me some sort of bolt cop, but I'm certainly not doing it in a vacuum, isolated from others. I can't remember what we talked about a couple years ago. Sport rappellers aren't that common around there anymore that I've noticed--I've seen just a couple instances in the last 2 years. Regardless, I don't think sport rappers have anything to do with placing or removing Minne's bolts. While Paul's biz has continued to grow and he sells to climbers far beyond Spokane, I know he still cares very much about Minne. Paul, as well as Lon at Mountain Goat, have indeed offered bolts and hangers at cost when bolts/hangers have been vandalized before: but that still ain't free for the likes of me. That's still money (and time) out of myself and others, not to mention the cost of the drill and bits as you know. Most of the anchors I've placed on top, and for all of the few new routes I've worked on, I've paid retail. Thanks for wishing me luck, I hope I don't need it. ****** This same act of bolt removal of TR anchors up top at Minne occurred 2-3 years ago the with the person(s) first identifying the bolts and hangers they were to remove by spraying them with red paint, then removing them several days later. Those anchors were replaced by myself and a few other climbers. The anchors that have been removed--both a couple years ago and most recently--are essential and used for at least 2 purposes: 1. Instruction (belaying, rappelling, tethering away from the edge) for many programs including those for area high schools, colleges, and several other groups. 2. Anchors for those who have led a particular route and need to clip in AWAY from the edge at the top of a route. Whoever is doing the removal may not be doing it with malicious intentions, and is possibly trying to do what they may think is environmentally correct: They are removing the hangers, chopping off the bolts/studs flush at the rock, and then covering them up with some sort of glue and dirt...obviously trying to do a "good job" of hiding any trace or scars from the original bolts. They are doing this above routes that typically have two bolts near the very edge, such that the bolts being removed are the 3rd and 4th bolts above a particular line furthest away from the edge. Whatever the intentions, these actions are misguided and are nothing more than vandalism. The removed anchors will be replaced, and I'd like to at least get the removed hangers back. If any of you know who the responsible person(s) is, please contact me directly. I'm not out to crucify anyone, but rather speak with and educate whoever is doing this. If necessary, I will be discreet. I and other individuals, with the help of other climbers and the outdoor shops of Mountain Gear and Mountain Goat, and all the groups who use Minne as a venue to teach, have an investment (financial and otherwise) in these anchors.

In the last 30 days or so, somebody has chopped up to a dozen or more bolts used for anchors at the top of the walls at Minnehaha Rocks-Shields Park in Spokane. These are not bolts near the edge, and are typically those that are further back and several feet further away from the edge. This same act occured about 2-3 years ago, with the person(s) first identifying the bolts and hangers they were going to remove by spray-painting them, and then subsequently removing them days later. Whoever you are: 1. Cease and desist your bolt and hanger removal 2. Identify yourself 3. Explain your actions This forum is appropriate for response, but you are also welcome to contact me directly. Steve Reynolds Mead, WA

sobo said: Back in town just for a few days. Thanks for the kudos, although I know I'm surely not the only "voice of reason" around here (you, Matt, PP, in his own way Dru, others), and I'm perfectly capable of descending into the depths myself. I decided a while ago to stay out of the cacaphony part and any name-calling unless it was for a really special occasion. I don't have the opportunity or time to monitor on-going exchanges; for me it's much more productive to say my piece and jump out. I missed hooking up with ya too last summer, Paul. Same job has me traveling again way out of town, this time in several-week chunks. Quite often away from easy internet access and sometimes even out of cell phone range. Leaves little time for real stuff like climbing, skiing and general playing in the mountains...I'd really like to have a different job with more predictability and real time for myself. AlpineK said: I like his style too. It's the style of just a few others that leaves much to be desired.

It's 45 minutes of easy trail with good views. The destination is worthy so suck it up. It's a trail and it will have snow on it now. What kind of beta do you need? Consider parking your bike at the Roothan Saddle, the last 1/8 mile might be pretty rough. Chimney has no motorized restriction or anything, but leave the dirt bike at home. It's an easy approach. Hi Martin, glad you're ripping it up on the west side. Wishing you and M well. Good answer. Used to be a sign at the standard west-side TH where the old Horton Ridge Lookout once stood: sign long since gone and never replaced. My understanding is that much if not all of the Selkirk Crest IS off-limits to motorized vehicles, including Roothann and Chimney. This can be easily confirmed by contacting the Priest Lake RD. Regardless Donny, your buddy was blowing smoke. In practicality, ground access to the base of Chimney can only be done by the 2- and 4-legged variety of transpo. Just a few years ago a buddy of mine tried to get a quad or dirtbike in close, and realized after a few days of recon that it wasn’t close to feasible. While I like dirtbiking and 4-wheeling, the Chimney area isn't the place for it. You’ll appreciate the place more once you're there. It's easy to get off-route on the approach, both by vehicle and hiking. The summitpost.com beta is confusing and not entirely accurate, and needs to be updated. PM me Donny, and I'll be glad to give you accurate approach beta. Steve in Mead

Spoke with author and editor. "Rock Climbs of Central Washington" should be out on shelves this spring, hopefully in March. Alpine climbs will not be covered, but Banks Lake and nearby Central WA cragging areas will. Includes sport, trad, and mixed routes up to 3-4 pitches in length. The author, friends who have helped, and especially the editor are taking great care to ensure a quality product. Interestingly, Falcon and the Mountaineers declined to publish this guide. Thanks to Mountain Gear for picking up the slack. My personal opinion is that the guide will provide a great alternative for those of you who like to go weekend cragging and want to get away from the concentration of climbers at places like Frenchman Coulee. Many of the areas in the book have seen decades of climbing, but most of the routes are more recent, and eyes will be further opened to the potential of the central Columbia basin. I don’t think the Banks Lake area will become another Vantage, for many reasons including its lack of proximity to the greater populations in the NW, and all the high-quality climbing areas we have to choose from. The quality of the columnar basalt upstream of FC is varied, and the underlying granitic gneiss exposed around Banks Lake and Northrup Canyon can be chossy. Climbers will have to be careful for loose rock features, especially until the newer routes see more traffic. Poison ivy and the occasional rattler need to be avoided. All that said, the Banks Lake area has its own identity and is stunningly beautiful. The quality of the rock in Central WA can be excellent, and there are many stellar routes that are well worth the travel.

Since the original posted question, your reponse Matt is the most accurate by far. I don't know much more, but will spill what I do. Can't remember the title, but the guide will cover mostly crag climbs on basalt and granite in the greater Banks Lk area, plus some nearby alpine climbs. Climbs/routes not previously covered in other guides, many new, but certainly the book will not be nearly as big as a Beckey tome. Author is Rick LaBelle, publisher is Mountain Gear. Serious formatting issues have delayed the printing. I'll ask Rick for a more definitive answer, but won't be able to post until at least Friday. Meanwhile, if you're really hot to know, MGear could probably give you an answer during the business day. Chimney Rock (Idaho) is not covered in this guide, and still needs to be updated since Randy Green's 1987 effort. Cheers, Steve

Try this one, then, if your lookin to get your stoke on. Many of you have probably seen it, but it's still good on a tenth, etc. viewing. And done relatively locally (by Bill Heath of Nelson, BC). Snow Falling on Sinners select clips from above movie

Ladyrose, PM'ed you: am glad to give you straight info on the club and our outdoors community in general. Hope you're able to get out there and enjoy all this great new snow. --Steve

During the cleanup last Sunday, a dozen or so folks cleaned up at least two tons of garbage, hauled out 2 old car/truck hulks, and established a temporary barrier (temporary in regard to working with landowners to put in a permanent gate) to help keep folks from being able to dump trash in the parking and climbing areas. After these initial cleanup efforts were done, removed were the artificial holds and bolts next to protectable cracks. No one showed up at the cleanup among those present at the REI meet (when it was agreed to do a cleanup) who spoke out in favor of the chipping, artificial hold gluing, crack-bolting, and route names written on the wall in semi-permanent marker--all of which (I shouldn't have to add) are obviously NOT considered ethical by consensus of the general climbing community. The idea of the cleanup was to get folks together for those who will take responsibility for the crag. The hope has been for the entire climbing community to work together with the landowner and public agencies. So someone (or more) already dismantled the temporary vehicle barrier, rebolted the cracks, and bolted back on to the rock an artificial gym hold. Yes, unfortunately one of the rewards for cowardly, irresponsible acts may well be to have the crag closed.

AlpineK, Just sent you a beta-filled PM. Martin (MCash) has good beta for you here. Actually, prime Chimney Rock, ID months are June-Sept (excuse me, Matt )...I've been baked on up there in October 1987, but some of the coldest I've been in my life was up there in August a few years back. If weather has warmed by the weekend (highs near 70 in valleys), and forecast does not include rain, I'd go for it for at least a day shot. If there is any rain at all in the Fx, then you're likely to feel it up on the north Idaho crest. Summitpost access info is confusing at best, and should be cleaned up. Best driving access is to follow, from East Priest Lake Raod, the Hunt Creek Road to Horton Ridge and the old lookout, about 10 miles on FS-type roads...best with high-clearance 4WD. Drive time from CDA is 2.0-2.5 hrs, and hike time is 1.0-1.5 hrs. There are many good routes, but consensus of best route to summit is Illusions/Free Friends at 5.11. Have fun. Edited to add: Good beta by Dane here at InlandNWRock.com .

The 2004 Post Falls Adopt-a-Crag Cleanup was a great success: 53+ showed up on what started out as a very rainy morning, and got literally TONS of work done! You'll see improved and better defined trails through much of the climbing areas in Q'emiln Park, leading to both the walls from down below, and TR anchors to the cliffs from above. I could list details--anyone else who wants to provide them is welcome--but if not it'll all be a great surprise for ya next time you're out there, from Post Wall to Fifth Canyon. It rained through much of the morning, and virtually all got muddy, but there were smiles on all folks' faces. And, according to Rusty, all his major work projects for the day were completed. Certainly there is more work to do for the future, but today's work was an incredibly significant improvement, and shows what happens when the community gets together. The greatest reasons for success for today's work and what will go on for the future at Q'emiln have to be given to Rusty Baillie for his original vision and drive, the support and planning of others including Robert Ordner and Richard LeFrancis, the City of Post Falls including Arborist Lynden Lampman and her crew (and especially their work at the Garden Wall...WOW!), and Avista for their significant financial contribution to Q'emiln Park and climbing. Further credit for help and support at the 2004 Post Falls Cleanup: * 50+ climbers from throughout the INW for a job well done * Kootenai Climber's Coalition * NIC and the Outdoor Pursuits program for planning and publicity * The Access Fund and corporate sponsors including REI and Clif Bars and all their donated prizes * The Spokane Mountaineers including all the members who worked today Local/regional sponsors donating prizes and support, in addition to the Access Fund and Clif Bars: * All About Sports * REI Spokane * Mountain Goat Outfitters * Mountain Gear * Omega Pacific * Black Diamond * Saltic * Mammut

Thanks, Dru, for the heads up. Incredible vid. Great audio too, had to turn that up. Interesting that the "hiker" got a number of different great angles and shots. Leads this insomniac to a number of questions, anybody please answer...OK, consider this a trivia quiz. 1. I understand that when Bachar did Father Figure at J-Tree that was the first 5.13 ever free soloed. True? 2. Is Kommunist the first 5.14 ever FS'ed? 3. Is Kommunist the hardest FS? 4. What has bro Thomas FS'ed? OK, off to bed. Hopefully sweet dreams of FS'ing and topping out...

Volunteers are needed to help with cleanup activities associated with the Access Fund's annual Adopt-a-Crag Cleanup, this Sunday, Sept. 12, beginning at 9:00 am at Post Falls' (ID) Q'emiln Park. For those not familiar with Post Falls, it's located just across the Washington border in Idaho--the climbs are on numerous granite single-pitch and smaller crags adjacent to the Spokane River in Q'emiln Park. While there have been annual cleanups in the past, this year's work is much more substantial: The City of Post Falls and Avista are providing at least $5,000--working with the Kootenai Klimber's Coalition--in support of various projects including improving and establishing the trail network in Q'emiln Park, cleaning up fire-prone brush and debris, and adding new anchors and protection for many of the climbs. Your help and presence Sunday will be greatly appreciated: members of the overall Inland NW climbing community will be present, as well as area retailers to give away prizes. Please bring gloves, sturdy work boots, food, water, and your climbing gear. Some tools will be provided, but volunteers are welcome to bring rakes, shovels, even weed trimmers and saws. After working into the afternoon, we will do some climbing: We'll set up climbs for all levels of skill, including beginners for whom instruction and equipment will be provided. This will be the biggest cleanup in the INW this year, and we will very much appreciate those climbers and the general public who can help, including those of you from outside the immediate area. Various work projects and activities are already established for which individuals are needed. If you plan to attend, please RSVP to the following: Robert Ordner, 509-443-7049 or btordneratworldnetdotattdotnet Steve Reynolds, 509-466-3004 or sreynoldsaticehousedotnet We thank you very much for your help!

Is true for the most part. This environmentalist used to work in the telcom industry, of all things, helping to build cell towers (helped to ensure towers were built RIGHT and investments were maximized for my bosses and company). Generally in the West and NW, for "backcountry service," Verizon is recognized as having the best analog coverage, AT&T second best. I don't personally know about analog coverage specifically for the Olympics and Cascades, but would assume Verizon. Our tower monkeys, from both west and east sides of WA, carried almost exclusively Verizon-service phones for communication from the field. Doesn't necessarily mean you're limited to Verizon or AT&T (soon to be Cingular), as companies like Sprint have their own digital towers or antennas for urban zones, and then contract for analog service with Verizon...that would be your "analog roaming" at about 30 cents/minute. Hey, there used to be a website--still around?--that showed geographically ALL the different companies coverages for both digital and analog. Most cell towers are built for multiple carriers, 3-6 is common especially for today's digital networks. Any tower-owning company, including a service provider such as Verizon, have incentive to lease space on the towers they own to competing services in order to maximize their ROI to build that tower. Each antenna array you see on a cell tower, usually separated by at least 10', represents a different service provider. Analog service, built out mostly in the 80s and early 90s, and now used mainly outside urban areas, has wider range per antenna array so requires less # of towers, and--with the $$ for the most part in digital and future technologies--will naturally have less carriers per tower.

First time I've seen this; I guess this is what rainy days are for. Marty, didn't anyone tell you to never "assume?" All or none? I'm certainly not that elitist, nor is that my "credo." Please don't read more into words than what they plainly state. Do you have a problem with me potentially having more concern for a member of the climbing community getting hurt out there than perhaps some drunken crackhead who was falling off the cliff while spray-painting it? What are you trying to do, pick a fight in a public setting? Next time feel free to contact me directly or move it to spray. Edited to add: mmmm, even my wife on reading this says I originally used a poor choice of words to convey what she knows I meant: I *am* a compassionate person for all, and naturally would care more for someone I know or someone is a member of the climbing community. Didn't mean to convey any disrespect or complete lack of care for others. Score one for you, Marty.

Broke her lower back, ouch. As far as Dechristo’s comments go, I’m another who agrees with Pope. Wally, points well taken. Until reading your post, I figured your friend was another in a long line of non-climbers who either inadvertently or on purpose end up in a climbing situation way over their heads and get injured or killed, and are commonly misreported by the media as being a "climber." The event was the lead story of the early evening news last Tuesday for the 3 main local TV news stations. Spokane KHQ (NBC) story KXLY news story with video Unfortunately one of the rescuers suffered heat exhaustion and had to be rescued himself. As a somewhat regular climber out there and a sometime instructor, I've been asked a lot of questions about what happened. Not knowing Lacy myself, nor the real story, each time I responded by saying I thought it was likely a non-climber who got into trouble. Now that I know your friend is indeed a climber, my relative lack of concern has changed: I hope Lacy heals quickly, completely, and is able to get back on the rock ASAP. If you read this Lacy, I’m glad you were not hurt worse, and wish you the best. --Steve Reynolds

Minx, Feel free to drop a PM or email next time your Spokane-way. Triplets was my first solo and down-climb, down a bombbay chimney...I've since rapped off slings from top (still years ago), and more recently new bolts may have replaced the old rap slings. Big Rock descent is a scramble (3rd class) down east side or raps down the west face on any of the newer 4 or so established routes there. I made some comments on your pix in the gallery. Thanks for posting 'em. Cheers, Steve

Missed all these replies until now. Good advice all, especially Dru's. I used Woolite, by hand, as I wanted to wash the new rope in just the end that touched the poison ivy: about 15 meters worth. I did rinse the shit out of the rope, and hope that all the soap is out. The washing must have worked, cause my main climbing partner is ultra-sensitive to PI, and hasn't complained yet. Next time I'm caught in the rain--which should be soon, with my history--we'll see how well I rinsed that soap out. Thanks guys.

Whoa, Marty. Time to pull the ego down several notches bro. Telling somebody they suck on the internet--without ever having met them--is another message that shouldn't have been sent. Trust me, Martin gets out at least as much as you, just not at the same places you hang at. I'm not sure why you say I "barely climb." Is that because I can't pull down on 5.13 like you? Cause I don't frequent the same crags you spend your time at? Should I mention what happened to you that day when we passed each other in our rigs below Chimney Rock? I may not be able to clean your draws, but let's do a cleanup, and --Steve Reynolds

Thanks so much Lowell. Well written and an obvious investment in time. Good to know about Martin, and that there were/are "subversives" in the Mountaineers.