Mtguide

On top of leaving for the holidays last month without extending unemployment benefits; hope the bastards choked on their champagne. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Is is no honor to be rich and famous in any society where people still go to bed hungry..." -Ghandi

Sounds like east Gorge is gonna have the best possibilities; call Oregonian Inside Line @ 503-225-5555,X 8053. Last time we had really good ice in the gorge('90-91) it had been in the teens and single digits from Multnomah Falls to The Dalles for at least a week.

I like the avalanche shovel,too...

I'm not familiar with the Intuition Liners,or the Vasque;but the Koflach Degre,while very light,isnt' really intended for the demands of Denali,and might be too light in construction.I'd opt for the Arctis Expedition,for fit,as well as durability.The Degre,which I've used for a wide range of general mountaineering,including ice climbing,is a softer boot,not quite as " articulate" a feel to it as the Arctis.,IMHO.

Read "The White Death:Tragedy and Heroism in an Avalanche Zone" by McKay Jenkins. Also check out: Accidents in North American Mountaineering-published yearly by the American Alpine Club The ABC of Avalanche Safety-E.R.LaChapelle Snow Sense:A Guide to Evaluating Snow Avalanche Hazard-Fredson and Fesler Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain-Bruce Tremper(excellent) Avalanche Awareness:A Practical Guide to Safe Travel in Avalanche Terrain-John Moynier Avalanche Safety for Climbers and Skiers-Tony Daffern The Avalanche Handbook-McClung and Schaerer All of the above are well worth your time if you want to have a thorough understanding of,as you say,"what you're getting into".Best of luck; be careful,be smart--and have a good time.

You bet, XC is great fun,super cardio workout,great way to get around the backcountry.I started out XC-ing,did it for 22 seasons before I got into telemark,still go XC whenever avy hazard is too high or weather's too mugged in up high.(Which can be a lot around here.) And yes, there are a ton of trails; get Klindt Vielbig's book,"Cross-Country Ski Routes:Oregon"-2nd ed.,and "Cross-Country Ski Tours 1:Washington's North Cascades" and 2:"Washington's South Cascades and Olympics" both by Tom Kirkendall and Vicky Spring.Miles of smiles...

Sad.Suicide is always such a permanent solution to what is often a temporary problem.

Oh yah,sompting's fishy here...and it tain't yust da lefse,ja?

Dude,you got a career in writing comic porn ahead of you.

You forgot to allow for the Texas/cowboy/good 'ole boy/Bible pounder/guilt/death trip factor.You damn betcha it's vindictive.I grew up in Fort Worth.Best thing I ever saw was Texas in the rear view mirror.It's a whole different world down there.Hard to say who's more scary,the guys on death row at Huntsville(highest rate of executions in the US)or the people who show up outside the fence for the executions with signs that say "The wages of sin is death","We're glad to see you gone","Good Riddance","He needed killing" and "Death to all killers".Just your nice basic old boys,kickin' back,havin' a beer,scream and swear at the anti-death penalty demonstrators a bit,work on your tan.Nice folks,yeah. Oh,and not too many climbers down there(Hueco excepted).

I have a pair of lightweight Kong aluminum step-ins,and they do tend to dull up pretty quickly.I wonder if some of the more recent models/other brands are the same,or any better?

There you go; that's really about all I was trying to say(in way too many words).And I was frankly forgetting about waiting a bit to see if it would get better,a little too insistent on seeing the doc right away.Good call,Catbird.The basic rule in medicine: "First,do no harm.".

Great piece of writing,trask. My guess is that the "timbers" being dropped into the truck bed in these commercials are balsa wood or painted styrofoam props; they also make "steel" pipe out of ABS plastic or cardboard tubes painted silver. Dirt, rocks and boulders are often made of styrofoam or various kinds of rubber or plastic.And many of the spectacularly scenic backgrounds you see in these commercials are partly or entirely digital.And in truth most of the real life oilfield roughnecks,heavy construction workers,ironworkers,etc,that you find on actual work sites are pretty lean and scrawny because they're doing hard work all the time and don't have the time or finances to spend their time at the gym,or getting enough rest to build big muscles.Most of the models they use in these "rig" shots wouldn't last a morning on a real job --believe me,it ain't like the gym,no sir.

Hi Mary Lou and GGk; Well, to begin with, I never said a thing about broken bones,that would be the last thing I'd be concerned about from what you describe.My concern is about the ligaments and tendons,also the cartilage and fibrous tissue around the joint capsule.I'm not sure where ggk is getting his information,mine comes from personal experience,as well as EMT,and WFR training and certification,and 10 yrs experience as a certified personal trainer.But I'm not here to argue that,simply to help you avoid any long term problem. Aleve is indeed an NSAID,(non-steroidal anti-inflammatory).Inflammation is simply the immediate reaction of the body to injury,swelling caused by tearing of muscle,ligament,or tendon( or all three together)flooding the immediate area with blood serum from the ruptured tissues.Ggk is absolutely right that ice is a vasoconstrictor,but it tends to temporarily slow down inflammatory reaction(mostly white blood cells)and once removed ,fresh oxygenated blood flushing back into the injured area will speed repair.Aleve(naproxen) in the system will aid in the process of reducing inflammation while allowing repair to progress,long term.It's proven to be more effective at this than ibuprofen or steroids,and without the of weakening effects of steroids.I also agree with ggk on the bad effects of cortisone,etc. Notice I also said/assumed nothing regarding dislocation; that is indeed very rare,and here again I agree with ggk.And yes,just the joint itself is very simple,but there are muscles that attach to it that provide movement forward and back,side to side,and a range of rotation in all those dynamic functions,and that's what is complex and makes the joint vulnerable to sprains,micro(and larger)-tears in the fibrous sheath around the joint capsule and the tendon- and ligament-to-muscle attachments around the joint.Also the hamstring and quadriceps muscles are large and very strong,and their tension places the socket under a certain amount of pressure which actually helps hold the joint together.Under the right dynamic circumstances, this tension/pressure can actually contribute to bruising or crushing of cartilage or even bone around the socket or the head of the femur,for instance in a windmilling fall on skis.Since you say you have weak bones ,maybe this isn't so far fetched.But these are big,heavy bones and in most people are really hard to break.Believe me,I'm nowhwere near suggesting you've actually fractured anything around there; if you had,you'd really know it, because the powerful tension of those thigh muscles causes excruciating pain in fractures of the femur anywhere along its length,particularly so the higher up the leg you go.I've pulled too many people out of collisions not to know a little about that.You wouldn't be walking,if that were the case. Regarding icing/time,you can actually cause frostbite,or at least burn the skin, if ice is left on too long,and most PT's I know will advise about 25 min. or so.It is correct that a physical therapist can diagnose based on mechanical/dynamic evaluation,and that's where an orthopedist would start,too.But an orthopedist(which means,in answer to ggk's question,"who the f-ck is -orthopedist?",a specialist in orthopedics,the branch of medicine dealing with the treatment of deformities,diseases and injuries of the bones and joints)could make a further determination,based on his preliminary physical evaluation,by ordering an x-ray.And yes,things such as tiny chips of bone and cartilage, frayed or ruptured tendon,at the areas where muscle and tendon attach to the bone,can indeed be seen on x-rays,if you know what to look for.An MRI is ordered in case the doctor suspects something further, from the range of motion(too much or too little) or degree of pain,but that's not showing up clearly enough on the x-ray.Not much can hide from an MRI.But the point to remember is that it's a progessive diagnostic process, and that process,in the hands of a good orthopedist,is conservative,and goes no further than it needs to,once he/she is satisfied that they've found out what they need to.An x-ray or MRI isn't done unless it's necessary,if you have a good physician.On the other hand, a good physician will want to be thorough,and as certain as possible.A film or MRI might be expensive,yes.But compared to what? Finding the real problem and getting it taken care of promptly and effectively can be a lot cheaper than taking a chance on screwing something up big-time,long term.Your choice. Finally,I'm well aware of the failings and stupidities of many orthopedic surgeons/sports medicine physicians,in particular regarding athletes in team sports.Pressure to get valuable players back into play can be ruthless and relentless at the college and pro level,and it's moving right on down into high school.The damage is inexcusable,usually for money and ego on the part of some asshole coach,athletic director,team owner or college president,and it's ended many a promising career,ruined a lot of lives.I couldn't agree more with what you say,GGK. But Mary Lou, you're not in that situation,are you? If not, you can refuse cortisone and novocain,or any treatment you feel isn't positive or necessary.Once again I'll use that word "informed".You have to be an active,inquisitive,educated and wary participant in your own treatment,rehab and recovery.I'm not encouraging anyone to have blind implicit trust in "modern western medicine";what I did say is that those tools and knowledge available for diagnosis are unsurpassed,and I'll stand by that.I did not say anything about the standard medical treatment necessarily being the right or the only way to go,and I used the word "alternative" as it is being used in all medical fields right now,to denote things such as chiropractic,massage,homeopathy,kinesiology,etc.,as "alternative" medicine,alternatives to standard western medical practice of invasive surgery,drugs,etc.And many,many standard,traditional physicians practicing regular modern western medicine are incorporating more and more alternative treatment in their practice,my own orthopedist(who is a serious alpinist and skier)among them.So they're not ALL assholes.My guy has saved my knee,my back and a shoulder,all without any surgery.His diagnostic process was exhaustive,and dead on accurate.His treatment was very conservative,including referral to physical therapy,(ultrasound,resistance and range of motion training)anti-inflammatories,icing,heat massage,etc. It takes a while,but the results were worth it.All better now. Sorry for the long-winded reply;I do appreciate the points GGK brought up--my intent is to simply contribute, based on proven experience,some suggestions for first care.But it did seem like STFU wasn't the most constructive approach.Best of luck with it whatever you decide,Mary Lou. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It is easier to repair the beginning than the end..." -Chinese folk medicine proverb

"Ace Ventura,Pet Detective" -with Jim Carrey "Spaceballs","Blazing Saddles"-Mel Brooks "Dr. Stranglove"-Stanley Kubrick Groucho Marx,you bet; especially: "The Big Store"-sheer lunatic descent into pure chaos and utter deconstruction of Macy's "The King of Transylvania" Any of the films of Buster Keaton

Sounds like we have a winner,here...Did you come up with that,Sisu?you better call Fox yourself before somebody else nabs that and winds up a major media mogul.Hoooowee!!!

Gee,sorry to hear that; so early in the season,too.But--I'd strongly recommend seeing a good orthopedist;this is definitely a job for them,not a PT and certainly NOT an LMP. No fuzzy-wuzzy here,OK? There is indeed a lot of discussion about standard vs. alternative treaments,but one very important thing that modern Western medicine has going for it is absolutely unsurpassed capacity for diagnosis,and right now it's imperative to get as clear a determination as possible of what's going on inside that hip joint.Then you can proceed to make INFORMED decisions about treatment,rehab,etc. From your description,it doesn't sound like this is something to screw around with,guessing at hit or miss meds,etc.Stretching an injury could further aggravate or seriously complicate the injury.The hip is a very complex and vulnerable joint.A simple x-ray,perhaps an MRI could save you a LOT of trouble.Stay off of it for the time being,don't ski,hike lift weights,or do anything that causes pain,beyond what is absolutely necessary to get around. Aleve(over-the-counter version of naproxen/naprosyn sodium is extremely effective,and is preferable because rather than being strictly a pain reliever,it's essentially an anti-inflammatory,relieving the pain by reducing inflammation.It may take a while to build up in the system and take hold, but it doesn't mask pain,so you can keep aware of the condition enough that you'll know if you're doing something to aggravate it,and can stop before you cause further problems. You can try icing it(one lb. bag of frozen peas,25 min. at a time,remove and allow area to fully rewarm on its own,repeat.)and see if it helps,and I would.But it sounds as if it may be deep enough that ice may have limited benefit,if any.This would be for the first 24-72 hrs. only,then alternate ice and heat. Above all,please call the doctor,without further delay.Find a good sports medicine orthopedist,or one who's familiar with climbing/skiing injuries; there are some good ones who are also serious skiers.I'm in Portland and not familiar with any in the Seattle area;but I do have an excellent one here in PDX and if you like perhaps I could get a referral from him to a good one up there. You might also try UW medical Center,they're usually state-of the art,and could at least steer you in the right direction.Best of luck ,and let me emphasize one more time,please DON'T fiddle around with this.

Your point about people not taking the warning seriously unless the rating is high or extreme is a very widespread misunderstanding. In fact,even when the hazard is "low",that does NOT mean any absence of danger,just a lower possibility or likelihood.People have been killed on "low" hazard days.About the only rating you could give to denote no hazard would be "minimal" or "non-existent",and to be realistic,the only time that might be accurate would be in late,late spring thru summer,and on terrain either side of the critical hazard angles of between 25 and 50 degrees. Liability is a difficult,fuzzy area.The FS could also be held liable for injury or death in instances where it failed to provide warning; if there's an incident,you can be sure that lawyers will find some way to claim liability,one way or another.

Might be that you're swinging too hard;you want a good solid placement,but over doing it causes more dinnerplating in hard ice,makes it harder to remove your tools for the next placement,which cuts down your smoothness and speed,which in turn saps your strength,stamina and endurance,etc.,etc.All you need is enough of a swing to set the picks firmly enough to climb;that will vary depending on how steep or overhanging the pitch is. You may well be aware of all this; but I've been climbing for over 35 yrs and still find myself in need of a reminder at times from my partners when I slip into bad habits. -------------------------------------------------------------- "Relax your mind,relax your mind,you got to relax your mind...." -Country Joe and the Fish

Don't forget to slap yr bitch around,wear white socks,chew snoose,belt your kids if they sass,and be sure your truck has one a' them "Horn broken,watch for finger" bumper stickers.Personally, I prefer "Get in;Sit Down;Shut up,and Hang On".And pull out your hogleg from it's holster banded to the steering column if they jump out of their car and run up to your window screaming at the next light. Quiets 'em down in big hurry.But I don't eat the farmed salmon,that shit's bad for you,bad for the wild salmon,and taste and quality just don't even begin to compare.

Absolutely do take lessons;no sense wasting time trying to re-invent the wheel.Note that I said lessons,plural.One lesson will get you started,but there's quite a bit to it.QUITE a bit.A good way to do it is to really commit to it; go skiing as often as possible;start with a lesson,then go skiing by yourself three or four times( going just by yourself for at least your first few times will give you the uninterrupted focus and attention you'll need to feel and listen to your body,find your center,and let it all start to sink in) to digest and work on what you got from the lesson,then take another lesson,go another 3-4 times on your own,and so on,right through the season. It will be easiest if you go lift-served skiing on the groomed,for two reasons: it's going to take awhile to get your ski legs and conditioning anyway,and riding the lifts will give you a rest break after each run,allowing you to focus on just the skiing itself.Second,the groomed surface will be much,much easier to deal with until you develop the strength and technique for off-piste.Don't be in too much of a hurry to go backcountry until your basic skills are pretty well in hand.There's a lot going on with the terrain,avalanche hazard,navigation,weather,etc. that are pretty damned unforgiving if you're not yet up to the demands it can place on you.The mountain and the snow will still be there by the time you're ready.Patience,grasshoppa. Instructors?Unless your friends are expert skiers AND skilled,trained instructors,you really,really are FAR better off getting lessons from certified PSIA(Professional Ski Instructors of America) people.ESPECIALLY since you've never skied before.A good professional will be far more effective and efficient in taking you through the process in the correct sequence,and while they may eventually become your friend,to begin with they are completely professional, impartial,and endlessly patient in helping you through what can be very difficult and frustrating,and yes, dangerous,if you don't know what you're doing.They are there to see that your transition from ordinary human grub to the realm of the gods is as enjoyable and painless as possible, they're damned good at it,and they're not impatient to be off as soon as it looks like you're not going to break your neck, to go do their own skiing.Believe me,it is money well spent.Yvon Chouinard once said that all climbers are the product of their first 2 or 3 climbs.And if those were good experiences,it can make a huge difference in the kind of climber you become.That's equally true of skiing.There are too many sad stories of people whose friends took them out for their first time, and they wound up hating it,never doing it again,selling their skis.That is absolutely NOT necessary.And,after seven seasons,I still take at least a couple of lessons a year,and am planning to do the TeleClinic(mentioned below) again this June. I'm not sure what's available in or near Eugene,but the best instruction I've had(and who I first started with) is Wyeast Nordic of Sandy,OR. Shelly Butler is the owner/head instructor and she is just excellent,fantastic.Her instructors are the very finest,such great people,and many of them have become my good friends over the years.It would be worth the nickel to give her a call and see whom she could recommend around Eugene,I'm certain she could steer you to the right people.Get in touch with her at: Wyeast Nordic-Telemark,X-country (503)622-4841 email:wyeast@transport.com www.wyeastnordic.com Shelly also holds a summer Telemark Clinic every year for 4 days in both June and July,on Mt. Hood,and I've been to it three times,including the first two seasons I was learning to tele.You can't beat it: a dozen or more the world's best telemark skier/instructors of long experience,impeccable credentials,delightful personality and warmth,and diamond examples of the elegant beauty and freedom that you yourself can and will attain as a skier and ski mountaineer.And all for about $135 for the four days,plus you have to buy your own lift tickets,as well as lodging and meals.Class sizes are purposely kept small,so there's a lot of one-on-one with the instructors,plus you ski with several different instructors over the 4 days, to get a very complete ,well-rounded overview and evaluation.Most of the time there will be, at most only 5 or so other students in your class,and sometimes it's just you and 1 or 2 others,which is like getting an all-day private in-depth lesson.Also,they video you every day and everyone gets to review it all together at the end of the day.With this kind of focus,you can really learn a lot and make great progress in building your foundation skills;it won't necessarily feel like it right there in class, but the next time you get out on your own or with friends,you'll know right away that something is way different.YEEEEEEEHOOOAAAAH!!! is the best way I know of to describe what that feels like. OK,homework.Get the following books and just wear 'em out. Free Heel Skiing by Paul Parker--the best,the Bible. Ski The Whole Mountain by Eric and Rob DesLauriers--More adavanced,but it will quickly bring you up to speed on modern equipment and technique,and give you something to look forward to.Excellent chapter on backcountry. Allen and Mike's Really Cool Telemark Tips(109 Amazing Tips to improve your tele-skiing)--by Allen O'Bannon and Mike Clelland--Yes,it is really cool,very funny(great cartoon illustrations,very clear)and spot on solid. Allen and Mike's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book-same authors;everything you need to know about becoming a sane,safe and saavy backcountry old salt. Guide books: Oregon Descents--by David L. Waag BackcountrySki! Oregon--by Christopher Van Tilburg These are both excellent,and give a good overview,as well as evaluation and ratings of difficulty of tours and routes.They'll keep you out of trouble so you don't get off into areas that are over your head before you've got the skills and experience to handle them. Magazines: Backcountry Couloir Off-Piste Abandon Also there are great websites such as TelemarkTips,Turns All Year,and others you can find through the Freshiez forum on another great website known as cascadeclimbers.com(!) Can't think of much else for now.Any further questions,feel free to PM or e-mail me.Best of luck,best of snow,hope to see you out there.

Jesus Christ, SC, it's 100 years later. We've made most tribes rich with the gambling industry. At some point they are going to have to make the cultural decision to look toward the future instead of the past, deal with some of their demons, and go forth into the melting pot! Poverty and attendant social problems still lay a heavy hand on many,many tribes in the country;we just had quite a powerful(and excellent) series of articles in The Oregonian, on child mortality on the Warm Springs Reservation in Central Oregon.The tribes who've done well with casinos have been those with proximity to urban or resort areas providing ready gaming clientele.The vast majority of reservations are way out in hardscrabble backwater areas bereft of marketable resources,or if the resources are there, the BIA and corporate interests have "leased"(read,"appropriated") them.Mineral,timber,grazing and water rights on reservations tend to be a hugely confused mess,with the lion's share of profits going to white/corporate interests.There are indeed some tribes who've managed to get control of their resources and become relativly stable and self-supporting,but even the larger and wealthier tribes such as Navajo,So.Calif.Chemehuevi(who own the land on which Palm Springs sits)Oklahoma's Kiowa-Comanche and so.Cheyenne(oil and gas),to name just a few, have a greatly disproportionate rate of poverty,alchohol and drug abuse,infant and child mortality,mental illnes, diseases such as tuberculosis,and accidents,compared to the general populace. I completely agree that all tribes have to come to terms with the past and move on,whining will get you nowhere.And many are in the process of doing just that.But they have big,big problems,and a very long way to go. "Never judge another man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins." -Cheyenne "The old men say, the earth,only, endures. They spoke truly; They were right." -Sioux

Probably the highly sensitive French fashion victim/haute coutoure/rudeness reflex that's been kicked into gear,here.Bot I mean,really, we just CAN'T have all zees weemen running around NOT buying ze Givenchy and Chanel and Estee Lauder and Elle,now CAN we,mon ami; bot of COURSE,zat would be so absolutely DISASTROUS,and WHY zey do not realize eet ees SO tacky,and oh,I must go lie down...(ah!;who ARE zees peeple!) ------------------------------------------------------------------ "Sacre bleu!Le pisseur Americain!!" Now,Peeyair,y'all ain't wonna them there sekyewlur hyewmnists are ya,there?

You don't give your age,which is an important factor in determining recovery time.But it can be fairly easy to slip into overtraining with leg work because the legs,being the largest muscle group in the body,work the entire body more than you might think. Training in the range of 3-4 reps a set is usually heavy weight,and recent research is that depending on age,body type(endo-,meso-,ectomorph;no one is strictly any of these,but they are general indicative types)and overall conditioning,it can take as much as 9 to 11 days to effect a full recovery from a(yes,that's just ONE) heavy leg workout.It depends on the number of sets you do as well. At any rate,the idea is to train,not over- or under-,but OPTIMALLY.Do what you need,but no more.After all,the muscles grow and stengthen when they rest,not while you're lifting.The workout tears muscle fiber down,and also has a very definite,identifiable(but temporary) effect on immune system function.Adequate recovery time is absolutely essential;my experience from over 25 years of doing my own training,as well as being certified(ACE) since 1992,is that most people tend to way overtrain,the younger the more likely to do so. So, a basic suggestion for those who are progressing with their development and want to add more power/strength benefit is to ease into it gradually and keep a careful watch on resting heart rate(lay in bed for 5 minutes when you first wake up,then check pulse;a rise of 8-10 beats per min is a sign to back off-you're on a slide into overtraining) and pay attention to any excessive muscle soreness or stiffness,as well as general energy/vitality level.As for the workouts themselves,an excellent principle is to alternate heavy days with light days; and I would generally go heavy on legs no more than once a week at the max,and usually adhere to the 9-day full recovery cycle.Then the next leg day would be the light one.And,"light" means no more than 70% of the weight you used on your heavy day,and it could mean fewer sets if you're still not feeling fully recovered. And when you do your heavy leg day also depends on what you're doing as far as climbing,skiing,etc.If you're going to go out on the weekend and do a backcountry ski tour with a fairly complete pack,or do a strenuous mixed alpine climb,you don't want to be doing your heavy leg day on Wed. or Thurs.,or even Monday of the week before;you will have done it no less than 9 days before your climb,if you want to be fully rested and up to snuff for the climb.Take a page from marathoners and ironman/triathlon elites,who taper off as they approach 2-3 weeks out from their event,with a week of almost complete rest,very very light,if any training at all,of the week immediately preceding the event.Read Peter Croft's little book,"Lightweight Alpine Climbing"(Stackpole Books,1996)for an excellent perspective on training,including his opinion of the value of weight training for climbing.Croft refers to the example of Reinhold Messner,who did very little power training--pretty hard to argue with that guy's success.But there's more to it than that,of course,so make sure to read the whole chapter on training. Another very,very important reason for alternating heavy and light days is physiological-mechanical,and that has to do with remembering what keeps the muscles where they are and enables them to do their job: tendons.Muscles,with their profusion of highly oxygenated tissue rich in red blood cells,tend to get stronger with low-rep,heavy weight training;tendons,composed of more dense and less well-oxygenated fibrous white tissue,require higher reps with lighter weight to gain and maintain strength,and they also tend to take longer to recover than muscle.So it's absolutely imperative to incorporate light days into the schedule to keep muscle strength from getting way ahead,which,if you allow it to continue,can result in tendonitis or even rupture. Recommended reading: The Outdoor Athlete-Steve Ilg Climbing:Training for Peak Performance-Clyde Soles Conditioning for Outdoor Fitness-Davi Musnick,M.D.& Mark Pierce,A.T.C. Extreme Alpinism:Climbing Light,Fast,and High-Mark Twight Flash Training-Eric Horst Well,hope this helps;pretty good stack of homework you got there,so get to studying,and believe me--sometime,somewhere,out there in the high and wild--there WILL be a quiz.