Mtguide

Aid climbing at Broughton's,Madrone(sneak in),Beacon,Carver,Rocky Butte,ice at Pete's Pile,cliffs below Mirror Mountain(to right of Skibowl-serious stuff,too)drytooling in the gorge(great practice)more ice on Illumination rock,Steel Cliffs,& the Black Spider(also serious) on Hood.(Played out?-I don't think so)Further south are Wolf Rock ,Santiam Pinnacle;out by Oregon City there's a little area called Waterboard Park.Or head up to Snoqualmie for N.Face of Chair Peak. Tons of stuff to do.Check out Portland Rock climbs;Izzat OK for a start?PM me.Lots more where that came from.

yep,that's me; no other Mtn-or Mnt-guide on the user list.Mtguide(me) and the cowboy are one and the same. --------------------------------------------------- "Gimme a chaw o' that there rosin,Sal...whoops,put that thang down; ya like ta 've blowed muh laig off there,pard!..."

That is my login name,"Mtguide"; always has been.Is there a " Mtnguide" or "Mntguide" registered on this site? I'll have to check the user list.

Well,that's been the reason behind space exploration from the get-go.Ever notice how many of the ass-tro-nuts have been geologists,engineers,etc.?They ain't goin there to set up some nature preserve. All this in spite of numerous extraordinary hazards and knotty problems which render Mars essentially uninhabitable,at this or any other time.Just a few minor things like,too small of a planet to have enough gravity to retain an oxygenated atmosphere,dust storms with winds of up to 700mph which last 6 mos.+,radiation levels several hundred times that of our own moon,which is about 100 times higher than on earth,and distance from the sun which contributes to temps of up to 250 below zero. Much has been made of the ideas of "terraforming " Mars ever since an article in LIFE magazine back in the 60's.Recreating the atmosphere,creating weather,water,etc,etc,etc. There is a whole Mars Society which plunges doggedly ahead with trips to the Arctic tundra in plastic space helmets and jump suits,Mars as the future home of mankind,jumping off place to the stars. Riiigghhht; just fuck up this planet till it's totally unliveable,then abandon it and all those who can't afford the tickets to an ugly end.Fast food technology,the disposable planet,shake the blood and grasping hands off your feet and please wipe your boots upon entering the spacecraft.Just more corporate asshole greed and thievery. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "...careless people who smash things up,then walk away to let someone else clean up the mess..." -F.Scott Fitzgerald,"The Great Gatsby"

Refer to my post on the thread "Muffy owns skis" from about 2 or 3 weeks ago--should give you all the beta you'll need to get up and running.Lessons can be a big help,especially for someone like you who's an experienced downhiller--most good alpine skiers can progress very quickly,much more so than people learning to tele who've never skied before or who have only XC backgrounds.You could find yourself doing beautiful tele turns by the end of this season with a few good lessons and lots of practice. Mattp is exactly correct,too. Anyway,there is a vast fund of knowledge out there--no need to reinvent the wheel.

Well,I see someone else has figured it out,too.... (pssst; it's been going on since Reagan's tax "reform" of 1986,the most massive transfer ever(until the Bush tax cuts)of wealth from the lower,middle and upper middle classes to the top 1%.)

Hmmm,yes,she does...have a...lot(!) to,uh,offer(shudder).

Interesting; it's a proven fact that anger and meanness can make a person(if you can indeed call Rush a person)ill; maybe all the pain he's caused others has come back to visit him;scapegoating the poor,minorities,women;all that bile has to go somewhere--what goes around comes around.Couldn't happen to a nicer guy,eh?

On top of leaving for the holidays last month without extending unemployment benefits; hope the bastards choked on their champagne. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Is is no honor to be rich and famous in any society where people still go to bed hungry..." -Ghandi

Sounds like east Gorge is gonna have the best possibilities; call Oregonian Inside Line @ 503-225-5555,X 8053. Last time we had really good ice in the gorge('90-91) it had been in the teens and single digits from Multnomah Falls to The Dalles for at least a week.

I like the avalanche shovel,too...

I'm not familiar with the Intuition Liners,or the Vasque;but the Koflach Degre,while very light,isnt' really intended for the demands of Denali,and might be too light in construction.I'd opt for the Arctis Expedition,for fit,as well as durability.The Degre,which I've used for a wide range of general mountaineering,including ice climbing,is a softer boot,not quite as " articulate" a feel to it as the Arctis.,IMHO.

Read "The White Death:Tragedy and Heroism in an Avalanche Zone" by McKay Jenkins. Also check out: Accidents in North American Mountaineering-published yearly by the American Alpine Club The ABC of Avalanche Safety-E.R.LaChapelle Snow Sense:A Guide to Evaluating Snow Avalanche Hazard-Fredson and Fesler Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain-Bruce Tremper(excellent) Avalanche Awareness:A Practical Guide to Safe Travel in Avalanche Terrain-John Moynier Avalanche Safety for Climbers and Skiers-Tony Daffern The Avalanche Handbook-McClung and Schaerer All of the above are well worth your time if you want to have a thorough understanding of,as you say,"what you're getting into".Best of luck; be careful,be smart--and have a good time.

You bet, XC is great fun,super cardio workout,great way to get around the backcountry.I started out XC-ing,did it for 22 seasons before I got into telemark,still go XC whenever avy hazard is too high or weather's too mugged in up high.(Which can be a lot around here.) And yes, there are a ton of trails; get Klindt Vielbig's book,"Cross-Country Ski Routes:Oregon"-2nd ed.,and "Cross-Country Ski Tours 1:Washington's North Cascades" and 2:"Washington's South Cascades and Olympics" both by Tom Kirkendall and Vicky Spring.Miles of smiles...

Sad.Suicide is always such a permanent solution to what is often a temporary problem.

Oh yah,sompting's fishy here...and it tain't yust da lefse,ja?

Dude,you got a career in writing comic porn ahead of you.

You forgot to allow for the Texas/cowboy/good 'ole boy/Bible pounder/guilt/death trip factor.You damn betcha it's vindictive.I grew up in Fort Worth.Best thing I ever saw was Texas in the rear view mirror.It's a whole different world down there.Hard to say who's more scary,the guys on death row at Huntsville(highest rate of executions in the US)or the people who show up outside the fence for the executions with signs that say "The wages of sin is death","We're glad to see you gone","Good Riddance","He needed killing" and "Death to all killers".Just your nice basic old boys,kickin' back,havin' a beer,scream and swear at the anti-death penalty demonstrators a bit,work on your tan.Nice folks,yeah. Oh,and not too many climbers down there(Hueco excepted).

I have a pair of lightweight Kong aluminum step-ins,and they do tend to dull up pretty quickly.I wonder if some of the more recent models/other brands are the same,or any better?

There you go; that's really about all I was trying to say(in way too many words).And I was frankly forgetting about waiting a bit to see if it would get better,a little too insistent on seeing the doc right away.Good call,Catbird.The basic rule in medicine: "First,do no harm.".

Great piece of writing,trask. My guess is that the "timbers" being dropped into the truck bed in these commercials are balsa wood or painted styrofoam props; they also make "steel" pipe out of ABS plastic or cardboard tubes painted silver. Dirt, rocks and boulders are often made of styrofoam or various kinds of rubber or plastic.And many of the spectacularly scenic backgrounds you see in these commercials are partly or entirely digital.And in truth most of the real life oilfield roughnecks,heavy construction workers,ironworkers,etc,that you find on actual work sites are pretty lean and scrawny because they're doing hard work all the time and don't have the time or finances to spend their time at the gym,or getting enough rest to build big muscles.Most of the models they use in these "rig" shots wouldn't last a morning on a real job --believe me,it ain't like the gym,no sir.

Hi Mary Lou and GGk; Well, to begin with, I never said a thing about broken bones,that would be the last thing I'd be concerned about from what you describe.My concern is about the ligaments and tendons,also the cartilage and fibrous tissue around the joint capsule.I'm not sure where ggk is getting his information,mine comes from personal experience,as well as EMT,and WFR training and certification,and 10 yrs experience as a certified personal trainer.But I'm not here to argue that,simply to help you avoid any long term problem. Aleve is indeed an NSAID,(non-steroidal anti-inflammatory).Inflammation is simply the immediate reaction of the body to injury,swelling caused by tearing of muscle,ligament,or tendon( or all three together)flooding the immediate area with blood serum from the ruptured tissues.Ggk is absolutely right that ice is a vasoconstrictor,but it tends to temporarily slow down inflammatory reaction(mostly white blood cells)and once removed ,fresh oxygenated blood flushing back into the injured area will speed repair.Aleve(naproxen) in the system will aid in the process of reducing inflammation while allowing repair to progress,long term.It's proven to be more effective at this than ibuprofen or steroids,and without the of weakening effects of steroids.I also agree with ggk on the bad effects of cortisone,etc. Notice I also said/assumed nothing regarding dislocation; that is indeed very rare,and here again I agree with ggk.And yes,just the joint itself is very simple,but there are muscles that attach to it that provide movement forward and back,side to side,and a range of rotation in all those dynamic functions,and that's what is complex and makes the joint vulnerable to sprains,micro(and larger)-tears in the fibrous sheath around the joint capsule and the tendon- and ligament-to-muscle attachments around the joint.Also the hamstring and quadriceps muscles are large and very strong,and their tension places the socket under a certain amount of pressure which actually helps hold the joint together.Under the right dynamic circumstances, this tension/pressure can actually contribute to bruising or crushing of cartilage or even bone around the socket or the head of the femur,for instance in a windmilling fall on skis.Since you say you have weak bones ,maybe this isn't so far fetched.But these are big,heavy bones and in most people are really hard to break.Believe me,I'm nowhwere near suggesting you've actually fractured anything around there; if you had,you'd really know it, because the powerful tension of those thigh muscles causes excruciating pain in fractures of the femur anywhere along its length,particularly so the higher up the leg you go.I've pulled too many people out of collisions not to know a little about that.You wouldn't be walking,if that were the case. Regarding icing/time,you can actually cause frostbite,or at least burn the skin, if ice is left on too long,and most PT's I know will advise about 25 min. or so.It is correct that a physical therapist can diagnose based on mechanical/dynamic evaluation,and that's where an orthopedist would start,too.But an orthopedist(which means,in answer to ggk's question,"who the f-ck is -orthopedist?",a specialist in orthopedics,the branch of medicine dealing with the treatment of deformities,diseases and injuries of the bones and joints)could make a further determination,based on his preliminary physical evaluation,by ordering an x-ray.And yes,things such as tiny chips of bone and cartilage, frayed or ruptured tendon,at the areas where muscle and tendon attach to the bone,can indeed be seen on x-rays,if you know what to look for.An MRI is ordered in case the doctor suspects something further, from the range of motion(too much or too little) or degree of pain,but that's not showing up clearly enough on the x-ray.Not much can hide from an MRI.But the point to remember is that it's a progessive diagnostic process, and that process,in the hands of a good orthopedist,is conservative,and goes no further than it needs to,once he/she is satisfied that they've found out what they need to.An x-ray or MRI isn't done unless it's necessary,if you have a good physician.On the other hand, a good physician will want to be thorough,and as certain as possible.A film or MRI might be expensive,yes.But compared to what? Finding the real problem and getting it taken care of promptly and effectively can be a lot cheaper than taking a chance on screwing something up big-time,long term.Your choice. Finally,I'm well aware of the failings and stupidities of many orthopedic surgeons/sports medicine physicians,in particular regarding athletes in team sports.Pressure to get valuable players back into play can be ruthless and relentless at the college and pro level,and it's moving right on down into high school.The damage is inexcusable,usually for money and ego on the part of some asshole coach,athletic director,team owner or college president,and it's ended many a promising career,ruined a lot of lives.I couldn't agree more with what you say,GGK. But Mary Lou, you're not in that situation,are you? If not, you can refuse cortisone and novocain,or any treatment you feel isn't positive or necessary.Once again I'll use that word "informed".You have to be an active,inquisitive,educated and wary participant in your own treatment,rehab and recovery.I'm not encouraging anyone to have blind implicit trust in "modern western medicine";what I did say is that those tools and knowledge available for diagnosis are unsurpassed,and I'll stand by that.I did not say anything about the standard medical treatment necessarily being the right or the only way to go,and I used the word "alternative" as it is being used in all medical fields right now,to denote things such as chiropractic,massage,homeopathy,kinesiology,etc.,as "alternative" medicine,alternatives to standard western medical practice of invasive surgery,drugs,etc.And many,many standard,traditional physicians practicing regular modern western medicine are incorporating more and more alternative treatment in their practice,my own orthopedist(who is a serious alpinist and skier)among them.So they're not ALL assholes.My guy has saved my knee,my back and a shoulder,all without any surgery.His diagnostic process was exhaustive,and dead on accurate.His treatment was very conservative,including referral to physical therapy,(ultrasound,resistance and range of motion training)anti-inflammatories,icing,heat massage,etc. It takes a while,but the results were worth it.All better now. Sorry for the long-winded reply;I do appreciate the points GGK brought up--my intent is to simply contribute, based on proven experience,some suggestions for first care.But it did seem like STFU wasn't the most constructive approach.Best of luck with it whatever you decide,Mary Lou. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It is easier to repair the beginning than the end..." -Chinese folk medicine proverb

"Ace Ventura,Pet Detective" -with Jim Carrey "Spaceballs","Blazing Saddles"-Mel Brooks "Dr. Stranglove"-Stanley Kubrick Groucho Marx,you bet; especially: "The Big Store"-sheer lunatic descent into pure chaos and utter deconstruction of Macy's "The King of Transylvania" Any of the films of Buster Keaton

Sounds like we have a winner,here...Did you come up with that,Sisu?you better call Fox yourself before somebody else nabs that and winds up a major media mogul.Hoooowee!!!

Gee,sorry to hear that; so early in the season,too.But--I'd strongly recommend seeing a good orthopedist;this is definitely a job for them,not a PT and certainly NOT an LMP. No fuzzy-wuzzy here,OK? There is indeed a lot of discussion about standard vs. alternative treaments,but one very important thing that modern Western medicine has going for it is absolutely unsurpassed capacity for diagnosis,and right now it's imperative to get as clear a determination as possible of what's going on inside that hip joint.Then you can proceed to make INFORMED decisions about treatment,rehab,etc. From your description,it doesn't sound like this is something to screw around with,guessing at hit or miss meds,etc.Stretching an injury could further aggravate or seriously complicate the injury.The hip is a very complex and vulnerable joint.A simple x-ray,perhaps an MRI could save you a LOT of trouble.Stay off of it for the time being,don't ski,hike lift weights,or do anything that causes pain,beyond what is absolutely necessary to get around. Aleve(over-the-counter version of naproxen/naprosyn sodium is extremely effective,and is preferable because rather than being strictly a pain reliever,it's essentially an anti-inflammatory,relieving the pain by reducing inflammation.It may take a while to build up in the system and take hold, but it doesn't mask pain,so you can keep aware of the condition enough that you'll know if you're doing something to aggravate it,and can stop before you cause further problems. You can try icing it(one lb. bag of frozen peas,25 min. at a time,remove and allow area to fully rewarm on its own,repeat.)and see if it helps,and I would.But it sounds as if it may be deep enough that ice may have limited benefit,if any.This would be for the first 24-72 hrs. only,then alternate ice and heat. Above all,please call the doctor,without further delay.Find a good sports medicine orthopedist,or one who's familiar with climbing/skiing injuries; there are some good ones who are also serious skiers.I'm in Portland and not familiar with any in the Seattle area;but I do have an excellent one here in PDX and if you like perhaps I could get a referral from him to a good one up there. You might also try UW medical Center,they're usually state-of the art,and could at least steer you in the right direction.Best of luck ,and let me emphasize one more time,please DON'T fiddle around with this.