DCramer

Iron Horse As far back as I can remember (1970s) the intermediate anchors were in place with the exception of the anchor near the top of Arachnid Arch which I believe only had one bolt until sometime in the early 80s. There was a very old virtual bolt ladder leading from the flared section to the belay on top of the Ringing Flake. When the anchors were last replaced the number of bolts on the route actually dropped due to removal of this funky artifact. 10% The intermediate belay bolts have been in place as long as I can remember. (1970s) In the past they have been a perfect place to practice multi-pitch aid techniques. Japanese Gardens Again for as long as I can remember (1970s) there was a funky anchor down and right of the current one. It was a pin and a bolt connected via a bunch of webbing. It was this anchor that inspired Clint to call out the short pitch as a variation. I asked him not to call it out because I am not fond of the whole short pitch thing. The old anchor has been removed. Anchors have pretty much been in existence in some form or another for a very long time. Why all the comments about the anchors when there are bolts just to the right of Stern Farmer that seem far more intrusive?

I only disagree with Mark to the extent that he is wrong about bouldering not existing in the area before logging. A very small group of people had been bouldering in the area on and off for years. Goldbar as a popular destination is the direct result of logging operations.

It's also in the Beckey guide. It might be difficult to pull off in a day if you haven't been in the area before. Lots to do in the general area. I think a frequent poster here might have climbed the route years ago.....

A significant amount of rock fall at Index occurs in the summer. I once almost killed Jon Stoddard and Mark Twight when they were slow to move while a block was slowly slipping off my lap as I was leading Death To Zeke. The top pitches of the Narrow Arrow Standard also contain many loose blocks. Unless cleaned, this not be climbed when other climbers were below. While on those pitches a few months ago and my partner and I thought we were the only climbers at the Lower Wall. We almost yanked some blocks then but decided without knowing for sure that we were alone trundling would have been too risky. It should be noted that both Smoot and I call the route referred to in this thread “Free At Last.”

Short history of the Perverse Traverse (easy 5th class): ~1980 No bolts anywhere ~Mid 1980s Bolts near the start for a TR anchor ~Late 1980/90 New anchors at both ends and two bolts added midway. (Several large blocks were thrown off) In some sense it is already fixed. Back in the 1980’s there was quite a bit of traffic across the PT yet after the addition of end point anchors and midway bolts traffic actually dropped. Does “fixed” mean just securing a rope from the start to finish? A fixed line won’t make the climbing easier but it will enable packs to be moved across it a bit more easily. Does “fixed” mean something more?

A couple months ago the Garden Wall had a scrub down. A Touch Too Much is pretty clean now. Weed-B-Gone is climbable but a few minutes more of scrubbing would help out. The top of Knob Job is still pretty mossy. The Garden Wall is an easy place to set up TRs. Perhaps the best way to TR Touch is to use the anchors on top of WBG. Rap down and set a directional on Touch to minimize a big swing. I think the set of anchors directly above the start of Touch were placed by sport rappelers and are not really located well for climbing use.

A friend and I gave this route a cursory cleaning. It is fully climbable right now but could use a bit more work. (minor brushing, some junk near the top and a pesky bush growing at the base.) I have no idea why this route is so neglected. Definitely one of the best cracks around. Perfect ring and finger jams. Very easy to TR. …and, unlike 25years ago, it’s pretty shady all day.

I don't think anyone was suggesting nailing a clean route. I am pretty sure not one of the pitches I listed earlier have gone clean, but those feeling the need to nail a free route should go aid Bat Skins. The section between the last two bolts had a couple of fixed blades that were stolen. Aid the route and fix those blades again. It's a really fun route that sees little traffic.

Have these routes been climbed clean? Harder: Diagonal Start to Narrow Arrow Overhang Deal w/It Ranger variation Frog Pond P2 Artifice (full pitch) Skin Graph (Unknown 139) Easier: Snowblind Numbah 10 p2 Snow White p2 Stern Jr. Several new variations have been climbed that are definitely not clean.

What will a guy do to avoid hard climbs!

Ah Mike's just avoiding the one route he fears...the one he hears calling to him in the night..whispering his name....the Bobcat Cringe....which is itself merely a warmup for the greatest unclimbed crack in Washington.... Bobcat Reality!

Update

Where: Hales Ales 4301 Leary Way NW Seattle, WA 98107 Mapquest Link When:Thursday February 23 7:30pm TONIGHT Share a beer and talk about Index issues, including Upper Wall Trundling!

I agree completely with the "increase access" comment. That is exactly what I tried to suggest with my earlier comment regarding making ORV activity even more legitimate. The Walker Boulders ORV is extensive and quite developed. The process for creating an official ORV site at/near the Reiter Pit is already in motion. It seems like right now might be the time for climber input into the process. One challenge the Town Walls face is an amazing patchwork of different landowners. This one of the reasons that I did not mention increasing access at the Town Walls. (See example below) The railroad tracks are a significant impediment to any potential development. Burlington Northern has made its concerns known to the Parks Department and without a proper crossing increased traffic could lead to trouble. (The Index Sportsman’s Club property is suffering from a significant level of pollution and does not appear to be part of a near term solution either.) I do not think that simply closing a road will significantly reduce the problem at the top of the Upper Wall. The entire area above the UW is a braid of trails and new routes to the Upper Wall will soon be found. The main approach road has been closed twice that I can remember - once unofficially when the bridge broke and a second time when the road was blocked in an official manner. Both times I did not notice a reduction in the number of people accessing the Upper Wall from the back. ORV traffic has increased many fold since then but the number of ORV types shooting weapons has plummeted. Blocking the road might simply keep the “good” guys away and these are the very people we need to help control the situation. There is no quick fix the key to improving the situation is continued engagement with and by all parties involved. A group of climbers have been involved with the Town Walls. In the 80s climbers were involved with keeping access open when the DNR leased land to the Robbins Company for their tunneling equipment. Several years later climbers were active when the DNR gave control of much of the Town Wall to the State Parks. Over the years various climbers have organized clean-ups and anchor replacement drives. Monies were reserved for the potential purchase of the Lower Wall. Unfortunately this has suffered a setback recently and has been place on the back burner by the Parks Dept. Last summer the lead Ranger at Wallace Falls park brought up an idea of how toilet facilities could be placed near the Lower Wall parking lot. That toilets were brought up at all is evidence that State Parks does have an interest in the Town Walls. Several years ago due to issues with railroad crossing and other land ownership issues the Park Dept was forced to turn down an offer by climbers to help finance porta potties. Many of the people involved then are still involved and are active in the WCC. The Parks Department personnel at Wallace Falls have been incredibly friendly and supportive of climbers. Last year a week or so after the “official” clean-up day Parks staff returned to the Upper Wall trail with chainsaws and spent several hours cutting blocking trees on their own. They also spent several days clearing brush along the railroad tracks so that climbers would be enticed to walk further from the RR tacks in order to minimize any possible train/climber interaction. (Example: if the parking lot for the Lower Wall is overflowing a climber can easily park on land owned by the Forest Service or along county controlled road, then walk across the parking lot and RR tracks that are controlled by Burlington Northern, skirt the base of the Lower Wall which is private property, walk to the Upper Wall over what is mostly State Parks land but around the left side might cross onto another chunk of private land for a time only to come close to or on DNR land before crossing back over to State Parks land. I should add that some little known areas require crossing land under power lines. I am not sure who controls that land)

ORV activity is certainly legal on the DNR land but the huge increase in the numbers of people at the pit have created a situation that demands a change in regulation. From discussions with officials last summer it appeared as though a change of some sort was coming to the Pit. Your probably right about the clear cut land being private ownership. Maybe there is an opportunity for climbers and ORV types to work together to secure the land as part of the State Parks. Last time I was on the road leading to Isabel I was passed by a train of 11 4x4s!

I think the "best" solution would be to turn the Pit into an official area similar to the area around the Walker Boulders. There is no real way that the area above the Upper Wall can ever be completely closed. Truly there are very few places ORV's can legitimately go and do their thing. An official area would be easier to police and the ORV community would have a vested interest in policing it. The Upper Town Wall has been a topic of discussion on ORV boards before with little impact. Can the well behaved 99% reasonably be expected to control that 1%? Maybe as part of the deal a nice motor free trail to Lake Isabel could be created! Or maybe the roads to the top of the Zekes clear-cut could be maintained so that access is preserved. ORV cutting corners are destroying the roads. I remember hiking to Zeke’s from the the creek - it took all the fun out of it. The sheer number of people involved at the Reiter Pit has created a situation that the DNR must address even without the Index Town Walls. The place is like a small city on the weekends. A very large number of people camp there.

As far as the Stihl...the State Parks guys did put some logs across the road. Digging a ditch or a mound to stop vehicles/motorcycles is equally ineffective. The bypass around the old bridge is evidence enough of that. I am sure that 99% of the ORV guys are not causing any problems. As always it is the minority 1% causing the majority of the problems. The ORV types are organized. Last year the Index work party organized by the WCC was scheduled on the same day as the ORV Reiter Pit clean-up. The number of participants at the Town Walls was a mere fraction of those that showed up to work at the Pit. If the road was officially closed would only the 99% that do not cause problems follow the law? Who knows?

I am not sure that the second signs have been ripped out. I haven’t been to the top of the Upper Wall since early last summer. The plan was to place them along the road approach to the Upper Wall. The Parks Department also tried to close off (barricade) the road leading to the top of the wall. I think I made a couple of posts here on cc.com and several other sites referencing the signs and asking for feedback. The feedback I received seems to indicate that overall object throwing has been reduced. Of course all it takes is one rock/beer bottle/tree to kill someone. Years ago I witnessed a small tree being shot until it broke and then it was thrown off the cliff. Toilets have been hauled to the top and thrown off. The problem goes beyond just placing signs, but I am not sure just where the solution lies.

I believe the new signs were in place as of last July. I have not seen them in place but did see them in the State Parks paint shop before they were installed.

In conjunction with the WCC the Parks Department has placed signs at the top of the Upper Wall. In fact several rounds of sign placement have taken place. The first signs made their way to the bottom of the Upper Wall within a week. I am not sure if the second round has survived the winter. Additionally, efforts were made by the Parks Department to notify ORV groups and the subject was a discussion topic on ORV websites. Rockfall has been a problem for sometime. The area of greatest area of danger is right below the route Tempitchuous. The WCC website is Washingtonclimbers.org. I invite your participation on its discussion board as well as here. Here is a link to the existing WCC topic: Signs

Bruce - Doesn't Wilman's go for three pitches to the top of the wall? Years ago my friends and I thought Wilman's was the face crack with the obvious slings at a hanging belay. So when we started climbing to the right we thought we were putting up a new (albiet obvious) route up a left facing corner system until we found slings around a bush 30' (bush now gone) feet up and some more slings at about the 75' level atop a killer .11a corner. From then on out(2 pitches)we saw no evidence of anyone being on the route before, however, we concluded that we were really climbing Wilman's. Any ideas? In any case the face crack (called the Incision for several guides) has a free section at the bottom that is becoming very mossy - not so fun unless dry and what we ended up calling Wilman's would have a few wet sections as well. Confused.

I wrote: So to clarify for those not know the route. After the first 10-15’ Dwarf Tossing (DT) joins All Purpose Duck (APD) and Snow White (SW). After 25’ or so APD veers right, DT/SW continues up (what else) SW. So in a pitch ending at the first ledge of SW we have 15' of new climbing. After that the route is same as the old Snow White. We freed APD thus my comment bolded above. We only claimed a first free ascent not the first ascent. We gave it the name APD because it had no name. I never claimed to have freed all of Snow White. Had I would have claimed the FFA not the FA. I will admit to failing on TR trying to free SW after doing APD and never returning. The title of the thread I linked to is:”Adding a bolt to Midnight Rock.” My question to SC was direct and cordial his response was as follows: At the time I thought it was not a direct and honest answer. As I said later in the thread I can care less about the bolts. I was asking a direct question about bolting existing routes and offered silliness. Readers can figure for themselves who is spinning.

I agree Matt. The BS on this site is amazing. It would be cool if there was a place people could discuss things without all the crap. I think it keeps even more interesting people and discussions away. Readers can read the linked thread get an idea of the route SC and I are discussing and come to their own conclusions as to what a new route means.

LOL I knew about the torquing part. Was there really a defective bunch of bolts: that is did Rawl admit they were defective?