slothrop

Does Vertical World still have this? Cascade Crags does... sort of. They ask you to anchor yourself with your belay biner to the floor.

I suggest a linkup of Orbit (grade III in Nelson), Challenger (glacier travel), AI (directed by Stephen Spielberg and real challenge to watch all the way through), and, of course, The Tooth (easy rock).

Let me guess: you drive a vehicle that gets you where you want to go and fits within your budget. Yes? Damn, I'm fucking clairvoyant.

But you're obviously better than all of 'em, right Fairweather?

Way to go, man. Nice photos.

Parking lot to moraine camp in two hours? You guys are fast! Bummer about the shoes, though...

No way. I'm not in the Mountaineers, either, to give a less extreme example. Long's book, FoTH, Royal Robbins' books, etc. all have something to say about ethics. Even a recent catalog (Patagonia or BD or something) dug up the original clean climbing manifesto and printed it. I don't see that much difference between those things and the printed consensus of a bunch of organized, experienced climbers. I can ignore all of them as I wish, but it's good to get the influence out there.

Yeah, Dwayner! Bring it on! It's not like Messner's going to log in to cc.com and debate with us... heh heh heh.

While the limits may be obvious to you (no hammers on clean routes, etc.), I think newbies could use something like the Tyrol Declaration to refer to as they learn their own style. I don't really see the document as setting anything in stone and it's certainly not a rule book.

I didn't really pick up on the arrogant tone. Sure, there are a few over-the-top or condescending bits, which Dwayner pointed out, but I find far more arrogance in the reactions of those who say, "fuck the UIAA and everyone else, I climb however the hell I want." Sure, it's your prerogative to climb with anarchy, but you're still being a dickhead if you bolt senselessly, leave your partner to die while you run for the summit, use a partner only to split travel expenses and then ditch/ignore him in Patagonia, chop a project without any discussion, ignore local ethics, heli-ski Everest, shit on the GNS, build fires in the middle of a bone-dry forest in August, or do any of the other stupid things that the Tyrol Declaration admonishes against. Good comments, Lowell.

Jeez, man, no one is forcing you to do anything. Social engineering, on the smallest scale, goes on the moment you step outside your door and see another person. The way that person reacts to your appearance and actions, in turn, affects your behavior. This comment of yours is particularly ridiculous considering your predilection for trying to socially engineer bolting practices among those climbers who will stand around and listen to you. So an articulate, experienced, well-meaning group of climbers writes down what they seem to agree is a set of values that many climbers share. Theirs is another well-stated, thoughtful opinion among many. Just like you try to build consensus among your peers that <oversimplification>bolting is bad</oversimplification> in long bolt-war threads on cc.com, this group of climbers gets together to build consensus around what they think is a good way to do things. What are you complaining about? That their views get more press? Great, you aren't a big fan of progress, climbing 5.13, whatever. You don't belong to the group of "activists" the Declaration mentions, so of course they're not speaking to you. They said that. When standards aren't pushed or a sport doesn't change, of course it loses dynamism (when viewed as a whole). That's just what dynamism means. I think you're saying the same thing here. Case one: your partners compromise to make you big boss man. Case two: everyone compromises a little. Case three: you compromise to let your more experienced partner take the lead. I believe this is the "don't be a dickhead, please" clause. And what other kind of legislation do you know than legislation of human relations? Yeah, I mostly agree here. This is a little too PC, though would Leavenworth be complete without the tourons? Again, "don't be a heartless dickhead". What goes around comes around (or should, at least). Yup, this is overblown. Unless you're committing a crime. For example, your sponsor (well, not yours, but Evil Sporto Dude's) tells you to bolt their logo onto Castle Rock for 50 bucks.

Seems reasonable and thoughtfully done, at first glance. Mike Clelland's cartoon in the AAJ sums up the Declaration and attendant controversy pretty well. I'm don't feel personally threatened by a statement of values like the Declaration, but perhaps some of the ruthless wanna-bes that Tom Frost describes do. Those who climb with awareness of their impact on the mountains might find the Declaration useful food for thought, but it won't change those who don't give a shit. I think the best use of the Declaration is as a moral model for passing on to the inexorably growing hordes of beginning climbers so that the world's mountains and crags are preserved in a relatively wild, adventurous state for as long as possible. At the conference where the Declaration was crafted, a Swiss group apparently whined like little babies and declared that they would defend against "the tyranny of the elites" embodied in the declaration by grid-bolting the Alps or some such bullshit. Apparently they think they speak for The People, who apparently need everything to be bolted in order to feel safe when climbing. How dare they speak for me or anyone else? Their attitude is exactly the moral elitism they think they're defending against.

See this thread for discussion about errors in the new CAG for Whitehorse (pp 130-1).

Not much snow up there. There are probably no snow patches on the north ridge of Stuart, for example. Here are a few photos from July 20: Argonaut to Colchuck Argonaut and Sherpa from the west

I tried on Kayland Multitractions and they might fit the bill. They're a little flexible for comfier hiking and have a good sole and rand for climbing. They're relatively light, too. Worth checking out to see if they fit your feet. I recently got La Sportiva Trango S-es, which are similar, but stiffer.

Which route did you do? That's a hell of a lot of booty...

Doesn't look like they make much big wall gear anymore, unless aid climbing now requires that you wear logo-infested shorts and linen-cotton blend shirts in fashionable faded plaids.

Ask Thinker, he's done some big group orders from Sterling in the past.

Awesome photo! By "standard route" do you mean the NE ridge?

Woohoo! Silent Running was incredible! We had perfect weather, too. It was great to finally climb at Darrington without being baked to a crisp or rained on one pitch up.

Tennis shoes and light crampons are good to have. There's a little snow in the Cascadian Couloir, but it's no big deal if you have crampons.

Me, too! See you there!

Nice job! I climbed it in September, when finding a way to cross the moat dictated where we started up the rock (way right of where you were). Our way started with 20 feet of hand crack, but petered out into gullies and unprotectable bulges of granite and heather. That slab is so cool!