Dwayner

If these guys want to tussle, I'll throw in my own comments regarding what I might perceive as sloppy thinking. Ain't intended to be a put down. ("Dwayner...you're SO MEAN!!!") Haven't run into anyone stupid around here yet. You want to be built up? Drink a few of these: - Dwayner

Muffy....If you're suggesting I'm a bolt-clipping maniac, I'm not. But let's say that I am. Then it would be matter of whether being a hypocrite eliminates me from the debate. I say it wouldn't. That would be similar to saying that a chain-smoker has no right to tell others not to smoke. And I won't even try to figure out what "a dupicitius old fool" might be. You know little about me. You, like a lot of other people on this board (and elsewhere) have a hard time dealing with the fact that others might disagree with you and have a completely different perspective. Not everyone is going to like how you or I think or what we do. Get used to that fact. Starting in with the "you're 12", or "you're an old fool" is nothing more that school yard name-calling. If you wish to disagree, show me where you think I'm off track (which you seem to be trying to do), or ignore it. Rise to the occasion. You feel sad for me????? SK....I have a great life, and I hope yours is the same. "dr." Flash: "But RuMR, you forget that unlike your assumptions, Dwayner's are correct." In this case, mine are correct, because RUMR obviously doesn't know me nor my background and has no basis for his wise-ass commentary about my abilities. You characters are putting me to sleep. Some of you say, "it's just recreation, man!", but you sure get angry when someone questions it! - Dwayner

RUMR: "Dude...you crack me up...there is no "morals or ethics" in an activity like climbing...shit, grow up...its fucking recreational activity...this is like arguing snowboarding vs. skiing or angling vs. flyfishing...are you 12?" Grow up? Your comments only demonstrate your lack of insight and your intellectual immaturity. There are no moral or ethical implications to climbing? No implications to environmental impact (garbage, bolts, etc.), death (for, example, is it moral for someone to do dangerous things when they have dependents relying up them), access (private vs. public property) etc. Come on, now, use your head. No, I'm not 12, but I'm well schooled in philosophy in which obviously you are not. Perhaps we can agree on the notion that climbing is a frivilous activity, but that doesn't mean it is free of moral/ethical impications. And a hell of a lot of naive assumptions about my abilities! Here....take a sip and pass it to your buddy there. Now, stop the bogus "you're 12!" nonsense and start contemplating your navel.

Sorry Icegirl.....I'm out tonight looking for a tux to rent for next Tuesday's Pube Club....gotta look sharp in public, you know! You like this one? Or maybe I can borrow my buddy Samson's: And then afterwards, me and my buddy pope are gonna practice "bustin a few moves". Here's a preview from last week's practice (that's me on the left): -

Glacier man says: "The flaw in yer arguments - Pope, Dwayner, DFA, etc. - is not so much some etherial 'ethical' argument, but the old, hackneyed Ford-versus-Chevy argument of, 'Well, they don't specialize in the same thing that I specialize in, so they are somehow devoid of some sort of moral fiber which I am emminently imbued with." Or more typically - "I'm not very good at/have little knowledge in a particular specialty of our sport outside of my own little balkanized realm." Fortunately some of our number are better at hiding it behind a veneer of humor and self-depreciation than others." Dwayner and pope are not arguing nor are our comments "flawed". We are presenting our own opinions in a humorous fashion. This didn't start out as an ethical discussion. Part of our problem with this whole gym/ sport thing is that some of us don't particularly like our version of climbing being thrown in with the rest. It ain't all the same. We do what we do because we like it and in fact think it's better. (Clean, trad-climbing, I believe, is morally superior to bolt-dependent sport-climbing) In the words of a classic bumper-sticker: "Sport climbing is neither." So go self-deprecate yourself (or on your own sleeping bag) if you like. You wanna talk ethics....start another discussion. Here....have a beer. It's a Mickey's: - Dwayner P.S. And to beat you to the punch..."Dwayner sucks...it's all good......clip and go!.....blah, blah, blah, blah!"

Sport-climbing gear issues: difficult decisions required in deciding whether to clip the bolt at your knees, the one in front of your nose, or the one alongside the nearby crack. Gym-climbing issue: confronting the fact that climbing a "5.11" your first week in a gym does not mean you are a "5.11" climber anywhere. Sport-climbing issue: accepting the revelation that hang-dogging and rehearsing your way up a 5.13 sport route doesn't make you a 5.10 trad-master. Gym issue: looking around the room to try and figure out which post-modern pretender is assigning the idiotic names to the ephemeral taped routes. Sport-issue: wondering which post-modern pretender thought they were poetic with the idiotic route name assigned to a line of 5 bolts. Gym Climbing Issue: being afraid to climb outdoors...it might be cold and such. Sport Climbing Issue: climbing with gym rats whose limited skills include belaying from a gri-gri tethered to a floor chain. - Dwayner

Hey you guys! Be nice to Icegirl. That pub-crawl thing is a darn good idea. Now get out there and start drinkin' and writin' reports! Icegirl...taking a break somewhere. Hello! Sigh.

Just wondering...what kind of student would you take on Mt. Si....walking students? What do you do up there other than hike a wide trail and then scramble around to the summit? Just wondering? - Dwayner

Dang Allison....that's like, so COOL!!!!! I'd have that made into a poster! And maybe you can get a little tiny version and put it into one of those little heart necklaces! BIG LOU! RIGHT ON! - Dwayner And here's one for Big Lou:

That Cajun place in Redmond wasn't bad. It was smoke-free, the beer and food was good, the waitress was flirtatious, there was a patio in the back where the smokers could lurk, there was a 7-11 next door where those of us with more refined tastes could purchase some party-starters and snacks. There's got to be lots of places like that in Seattle, Tacoma's got quite a few: middle ground between the smoke-filled, sticky-floored sludge pits and the so-called fern bars. As I mentioned once before.....this should be cause for an expedition. Get your buddies and go on a pub crawl between now and next week. Have a drink at a variety of places and rate them on various criteria. - Dwayner

It might be one of a kind.....maybe it's the one "pope" crapped on during his "Cirque Expedition".

I heard that it was going to be at the Blue Moon in the U-district and then moving over to Hattie's Hat before continuing at the Alki.

A couple of observations: King5....you wouldn't be getting all of the attention from most of these characters if they thought you were a guy. Horn-dog/Spray Monkeys: perhaps you are being Amber-trolled. Also....Icegirl...don't listen to them punks trying to get you to wear your bikeshorts to Pube-Club....they're only hoping for camel-toe and other tight views. I say, "Fogettaboutit!" They should be content with your delightful social skills and climbing repartee. - Dwayner

STFU.....STFU....my mind drifts back to Junior High School where the angry bullies provided similar retorts to anyone who happened to walk by. I guess you weren't invited either and don't want to see the pictures. Whatever your problem is, though, I think it's medication time.....

Uh.....I know I said I don't like it when the girls hijack the venue, but I think we should make an exception and allow Icegirl to pick the place every week. - Dwayner P.S. Hi Icegirl! (Pretend that be Dwayner on the left givin' you a big basket o' candy!)

I posted some good pictures smuggled out of Mattp's party in an earlier post (the original thanks for the party one) but apparently when Eric moved the topic to Spray, he misplaced them all! Bring 'em back, sailor, it's part of the historical record! - drunk 'ole Dwayner

This seems to be indicative of the recent malaise that has stricken most of the posters on this board. I remember watching the stellar fights over wear pub club would be. These would last several days; it was invigorating. Where has the spark gone? Hey! Let's have it in Tacoma like in the good old days. Na.....I take it back. The spark is gone.

According to RURP, this guy hangs out at the UW Rock. I guess that place is a real celebrity magnet!

Yes it does. As I'm sure you're very well aware, being in the military is a very dangerous job; there are even occasional casualties in boot camp. And look at Afghanistan...most American casualties have been from helicopter crashes and other accidents. I think it was very dishonest of whoever originally constructed that "war on Iraq" quiz to suggest there were no western casualties. It's utterly absurd and a dishonor to those who were killed. Hopefully, there will be few casualties on either side in the next fight, and some say that we now have the "tools" to make that happen. By the way, I think we have more in common with Iran than generally recognized. In several ways they should be our natural allies and despite our ideological differences, we should be getting to know them better (and I think we probably are).

American friendly-fire deaths in the Gulf War: 35 out of 148 total. Also, the statistic I gave above does not include non-US western casualties. To state that there were no enemy-inflicted western casualties during the Gulf War is beyond ignorance....it is blind ignorance.

"The Real Alpine K" an essay by Dwayner Alpine K is probably trying to be funny in his own way although some people don't know him well enough to tell if he is joking or just a jerk. Points in his favor...they say he skis well and climbs well and I know he drinks beer. He's got a big smirk on his face most of the time so he seems to lead a happy life. He's got a cool job.....Only 427 words more to go.................uh.....it's well known that he has posted nasty stuff under the name "Feck" but that too seems to be just in jest, or so they say....uh.....I think his real secret desire is for Dwayner to teach him how to write "Alpine K - Big Wall Master" in hieroglyphs. (All you gotta do is ask, buddy!) .....I'm running out of ideas fast, Cap'n!....uh...bolts suck...Big Lou is so huge....aaaahhhh, forget it.....I flunk. Bailiff, wack my piton. Orchestra, please. Maestro, if you will..... Here's to brother Alpine K. Brother Alpine K. Brother Alpine K. Here's to brother Alpine K. Who's with us tonight. He's happy, he's jolly He wants to be Dwayner's Big-Wall Buddy By Golly Here's to Brother Alpine K Who's with us tonight. So drink up.....

I don't have the time to check all of the facts in that list but I can tell you that No. 17 is nonsense: "17. Q: How many casualties did the Iraqi military inflict on the western forces during the Gulf War ? A: 0 Here's the real answer: The casualties for the United States in the Gulf War: 148 killed in action, 458 wounded. Also, 121 Americans died through non-combat incidents On February 25, 1991, an Iraqi Scud missile hit a U.S. barracks in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing 28 U.S. soldiers. So, how many of these other so-called "facts" are likewise flawed? - Dwayner

Erden says "Dawson Creek is within two days of riding..." Dude! Watch out for these crazy cats! They're mischevious and promiscuous: Especially this one!:

Alpine K.....Petey Puget.... Remember back in the good old days....5th grade.......when the three of us were best of friends. (Here we are at Petey's 11th birthday party after we drank that can of beer we found along side the road.): And then we all went to the same community college together and said we'd be best friends forever? Remember our graduation party? We were so full of joy and hope! Just look at it beaming out from our young faces: And now......what has happened to US!!!!!

What have I done to Alpine K/Feck....... - I've met him at Pub Club a few times but really don't know the guy; - Me 'n pope rode with him in a truck to Index to check out some rumored chicken bolts but it was raining so we drank beers in a car. I have no idea what that boy's problem is.....maybe he hates everything I post here....on the other hand.... maybe it's his own desperate cry to be my pal!! And then's there's my old sparring partner, Mr. Puget, with whom I thought I called it quits last year: "my sworn and eternal enemy (Dwayner)" Sorry to deflate your fantasy, Sparky, but you don't even make the list. Such drama on a climbing discussion board! - Dwayner