W

Word, Fairweather. I'm working today, and probably tomorrow since there looks to be no warm outside rock climbing anywhere within 800 miles of here. And I have three weeks left before I hit the road for a year of climbing and travel. Until then, I've got to tone down on the Mexican and Italian food and start getting outside!

Beefcider, My two cents:"Self taught" in my view is something of a fallacy. No one is purely self taught in the sense of the word. The use of books is learning from the research and experience of another. If your friends show you ice axe arrest, you learned it from them and not "yourself". Etc. etc. While that is overstating the obvious, my point is that as with anything, one can not improve one's self in isolation. I have never taken a guided course; I was fortunate in that I had several friends who already knew the basics and were patient enough to teach me the skills to get started. Along the way, I was equally fortunate to meet others with similar abilities and ambitions for climbing routes, and with whom I connected personality-wise, and with those partners, together we set out to learn- from having "experiences" and from each other- what works, and more importantly- what does not work. The latter is where I feel too much dependence on guide services will fail the aspiring alpinist. The things they tell you to do and not do are not "wrong", but in some areas, like judgment and style, they are simply the school's particular way of doing things. One is never taught to learn from mistakes, because you don't really get to make one. I do feel that there is nothing negative about taking a series of instructory courses to teach one essential skills. But beyond that- if one aspires one day to be able to climb just with friends and without reliance on a guide service (this is the important point to stress)- repeatedly hiring a guide to make the judgment calls and decisions for you will never allow you to develop your own version of "mountain sense" and intuition that is essential to succeed independently at a high level. Further, people get into the pattern of deferring to an authority in climbing of which they are not even aware- and usually never break out of it. True, many guided clients go on to summit many big mountains and have fun doing it. If they are having fun then go for it, nothing wrong with that. But if you truly wish to have all the skills so as to be able to do climbing trips independently, just be aware of the dependence that tends to get fostered by repeated deferrance to guides and instructors. At some point, if you want it enough you will allow yourself the freedom to make your own decisions, read the weather and the conditions yourself, plot the logistics of the climb yourself- and, most importantly, allow yourself the possibility of making a mistake. I've made more than a few, and every time, I don't dwell on what could have been, I just realize that at the moment I made the mistake I was simply not paying attention to my surroundings and not following instincts. I can tell you that nearly 100% of the times this was the case.Good luck and happy learning! [ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: W ]

quote: Originally posted by Bug: Actually, the snow is colder anywhere the temperature is colder. Snow will not be 32 F if the temperature is -70 F. If it drops below what your padding will insulate you from, you will get cold from below.... Denali can be frigin bug freezing cold too. Still, it is a good idea to pack as light as possible without shorting yourself on the essentials. Lizard brain probably has it right. I do the same basic thing. I also take a thermarest for base camp but mostly because I have an old shoulder injury that acts up if I sleep on it on hard ground.Lots of people go up there in May-June and never see the really cold weather that can and does happen accaisionally. Don't underestimate what Denali can throw at you. There are a few frozen people up there who guessed wrong. Okay I guess my science facts are a little off. You're probably right. My first trip up there was in early April on the Muldrow- we got trapped on the Harper in a three day storm, during which time the mercury read -60 at night/-40 during the day for three days, a bunch of our shit blew away, including me flying ten feet airborne in a gust (i'm not exaggerating) that had to have been 125 mph+ while I was outside trying to resecure our tent guylines. I lost 17 pounds in 20 days while on a 6000 calorie a day diet. My facts on the snow temperature are off because I think my brain got frostbite on that trip. which explains everything else about me.

quote: Originally posted by vegetablebelay: My apologies W - I meant to include the winky guy but overlooked it. I was simply trying to throw out an example. oh, hell...the winky guy, now THAT would've explained it.... It's cool. for the record, I already know that I'm an enigmatic stump-preacher with diarrhea of the mouth and on the political spectrum- I'm very balanced- I hate everyone equally! i've been indoors too frickin' long. Is summer here yet?

quote: Originally posted by vegetablebelay: I scroll past almost all of W's posts because they are usually 1000 word liberal diatribes. VB-Sure I've had some long posts, and I don't care if you don't read them, I don't expect everyone to be interested...just don't call me a liberal if you simply don't understand what I'm trying to say. Not that I really care, but you don't know me at all and the world isn't so black and white. I'm not sure how I got singled out here since I've never had any real discourse with you, but thanks for your opinion.

kweb, I took two pads my first time up there. It was a bit better with two, but one is fine. I have used one pad for years. I use a thick ridgerest, which I cut down in length to my exact height so it isn't too bulky. I personally don't like Thermarest's because they eventually find a way to get a hole in them, and they are too heavy. If you plan on having a fat basecamp somewhere to use between climbs, then bring two, but for alpine climbs one is all I recommend. The snow isn't any colder on Denali than anywhere else.

quote: Originally posted by trask: Wow Heinus, rock on dude. Incoherent tangents are your best friend. Is this because of that time when you shit an entire waffle iron out of your ass after shooting heroin at that Vegas brothel? Was that the only time you truly missed your mommy? With that,I think at this point Icegirl's thread-starting question has been answered. No, there is no role of moderators. IT'S ANARCHY!Are we off topic yet?

quote: Originally posted by DLunkman: Allison, It is at times like this that I am embarassed to be male. I am so sorry that you have been put through such classless abuse just for speaking your mind. Perhaps we could get together and talk about some constructive ways to better this site at some place free of the juvenille vulgarities displayed here. Not all of us are such disgraces to our gender. Perhaps over coffee somewhere? PM me if interested. This is either a spectacular troll, or an unsuspecting "sensitive guy" effectively proving HeinousCling's assertions.Nice try, Mr. Sensitive-Ponytail Man.

Heinous- shhhh. You're not supposed to give away our male secrets, amigo! You're supposed to do the enigmatic good-cop/bad-cop thing and keep the ladies guessing. Now, they're going to be on to us.

So...Brian, where are you? I wasn't flaming you in my last post. My questions were serious. You said you were available to take questions. We're waiting for answers. I am, anyway. Sorry if this sounds impatient, but I have an enquiring mind. Did Max piss you off or something?

I helped start this...I am so sorry. I need a hug now, please.

quote: Originally posted by iamjacktors: And don't listen to that W guy, he doesn't know shit. Jack Tor-S, is it?.....your identity has been logged and is not a secret! Don't make me 'out' you, Jerky!

Don't mean to bum ya' out...just as with everything in Alaska, aim high but prepare to fail. To make you feel better, once you get across the river, the Brooks climb looks very aesthetic! FYI- the junction of the Traleika and Muldrow is very jumbled moraines and a bunch of bs to deal with. I've been up the Traleika and to get to it we actually went up the Muldrow about 1/2 mile, then cut over to the base of Mt. Tatum, then traversed back towards the Traleika. To get to Brooks, however, you might want to hug the north edge of the Muldrow while heading down glacier from McGonagall Pass, getting past the broken confluence of the glaciers, then try heading straight across the Muldrow to the base of your route. I assume you're planning to try the north ridge. That's been on my list for years. Good Luck!

www.nws.noaa.gov

PMS is more like it

Thanks Greg

quote: Originally posted by allison: W's little graphic of the humping/sodomizing smiley faces is a prime example of the sort of crap that a lot of women with perfectly functional senses of humor would find tacky and possibly offensive. I do. How about a little wit? It's amazing how easily people are baited. Which is worse, my trolling, or your getting "offended" and taking it personally? If one get's into an internet pissing contest like you did earlier in the thread, you shouldn't be surprised nor take seriously any razzing you get- it's a public forum.You want some wit? Mellow the fuck out.

check out "Orange #5" in Gastown. You'll love it.

Bring a pair of shoes and/or neoprene socks to wear- don't stash them on the far side though, as you'll probably need them at Clearwater Creek also. it's braided channels, some shallow, some waist deep and fast. Cross in the morning and use a stick or something to hold each other together; walk in a line so the downstream folks have a current break to walk in, and keep the strongest person upstream. I've been over it twice, but both times in the winter or early spring when it could be skied over. You'll also want a headnet and pepper spray. If it's raining hard you might do like a friend once did on his way to Brooks- camp on the north side of the river for a week waiting for the swollen river to come down... and then go home.

quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: Hey W....as your attorney I must remind you that if you give away such a damn good idea he can use it and get rich....and you get noithing. Oh, but I'll be able to sit back in the shadows as the anonymous person who did a good deed for all and asked for nothing in return...

THIS IS ALL CHRIS BOSKOFF'S FAULT! AND THE NORTH FACE!

The helmet is mainly needed for the chimney route on the backside...there's rumoured to be lots of rockfall and mudslides.

Brian, i'm one of the people who gave the thumbs down to your cams. Where do we disagree? Perhaps it was the route and nature of the climbing, but I just found it difficult to get stable placements. They were terrible in flared scars. Maybe they just seemed unfamiliar and needed some practice, but typically gear either works intuitively or it doesn't. My partner didn't like them either, and many other people I know have had the same concerns about spooky, shifty placements. Maybe on "splitter" cracks they'd be better, but we were using them for A2 to A3 seams. I mentioned it before: have you considered tapering the heads giving a two cam competitor to the hybrid alien? This might require increasing the depth of the cam along the axle, but that might provide a much more stable and secure placement. Currently to what type of application do you feel these cams are best suited?

Still, I think it might be a good idea to wear a helmet.

Godefroy Perroux was killed in France last month- just like the dude in New Hampshire, the ice climb he was on totally collapsed. He was a spearhead for bringing ice climbing into the mainstream eye in France back in the 80's.