W

Someday, some man's gonna make 'em...

I'm changing my name to AlpineR

Hey Rod, You're right that the liberals are pushing for some of these regulations, and in fact the fee demo thing started in the middle of Clinton's terms. However, Bush is on record as pushing to rubber stamp the fee demo into permanent status, so the fight has to go to Bush. Clinton is out of office and we shouldn't let this degenerate into a conservative vs. liberal catfight. The issue is that there are both conservatives and liberals who hate this thing, which goes to show that the whole issue is a fiasco perpetrated by bureaucrats on both sides of the political spectrum. I agree that the Private Park thing, while outrageous by principle, is hype that won't ever see the light of day. but the facts are that paying to use forest land is already happening and could get worse. We need to spell out to our leader the "services" that we, the public, expect- if any- and further, demand that the federal government fund the USFS to the effect that the USFS does not have reason, cause, or need to ask the public to pony up. Our tax dollars are not covering something they are supposed to!

Does anyone have the email/contact info for our senators and reps, and/or whomever it would be most useful and direct to contact regarding this issue? I would like to compose a letter to those who are going to vote on this.

quote: Originally posted by Bronco: I am not really sure what W's post is referring to, but you should only oil up if you are by yourself. That's because of the horror that would be inflicted from seeing Chuck Norris and Christy Brinkley oiled up. Norris, anyway.

imagine Fred as an underwear model now? no, actually, don't.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: i usually take 3 rurps, a cliff hanger, duct tape, blowtorch, Lovetron and 6 pack of maudite, plus an extra pee bottle and a dozen #3 RPs. Don't you take your Pocket Pussy along too? Or is that only on longer climbs?

Is Helmy Beckey still alive??? Fred always wrote nostalgically about his climbs with Helmy, but you never hear anything about Helmy after WW2- I always wondered if he died in the war or something.

the manufacturer says that for best results you have to oil yourself up so you look like the frat boy in the commercials.

quote: Originally posted by erik: careful there dubbaya........looks like the path you are travelling with that once could lead to..............trouble!!!! Trouble is my middle name.

quote: Originally posted by James: i thought climbing was all about getting more ass AlpineK and Allison at the next Pub Club:

I wasn't there, but I still don't understand this at all: you did most of the tour, then turned around and backtracked the WHOLE THING because you couldn't skin up 20 feet of snow? You then state that you "might have made it" if you had simply taken off your skis and booted up the slope, but you didn't try to do that because you "weren't expecting to have to"? I don't get it! with the alternative being having to backtrack the whole route, you didn't even attempt to climb up 20 feet of snow? Was it vertical or something? If it was in any way climbable on foot or on ski, I don't understand how this is Martin Volken's fault or why you have a beef with this book. A 20 foot section of climbing doesn't sound to me like it elevates the climb to a "high-level"; But again, I wasn't there, and I haven't done the tour, and that's why I'm asking.

This whole thing stinks! I find it funny that the Bush Administration, which by and large represents the crowd that advocates endlessly about "taking 'big government' out of everyone's lives" is trying to make this thing a law...paying for using public lands. It doesn't matter that it came into formation under the Clinton Administration, who themselves helped sell out our lands just as bad as Bush is doing now. It's the system that's flawed, and it stinks. We ought to scrap the USFS and start fresh. And the higher fed.gov't needs to quit trying to slip the responsibility to fund the admin. of the USFS off on the public just so money can be directed towards some other bullshit personal political agenda. The USFS runs itself like a private business, but is holding in it's clutches a public trust. This has to stop.

"freshie face shots"? that sounds like some kind of porno shit. here's a face shot for you:

Actually, it is confusing to find. Or at least, I suck and got lost on the way. I tried to hike up the next canyon south and then cross in northward. That canyon is filled with impenetrable cactus and yuccas. The correct way is to hike in the main, wide, wash until you are directly west of the Grotto. Then scramble up a weird trough with some loose rocks and gravel and up into the Grotto, which is very unique- a deep gorge hemmed in on all sides (which is why you can't get there any other way including my errant effort) and has green grass growing due to the shade. By the way, getting down from Caught Inside is difficult. Here's some beta that will save you time: Caught Inside is in the back of the Grotto cleft, on the right hand (north facing) wall. From the top of the climb (gear anchor- need 1/2"-2"), I scrambled up and over the ridge to the south, where I down climbed a little on the south facing wall and located a small tree with rap slings. Make a long rappel (need two ropes)to the bottom, then scramble west, then back up and over the same ridge at a deep notch (4th class/maybe low 5th) and downclimb the north side back into the Grotto. That south side of the notch is facing the canyon I tried to approach from initially, but when you rap down you don't get all the way down to all the nasty cactus and crap. For the other climbs, I believe you have to get to the top of the Dome (I think it's Diarrhea Dome -great name, huh) and then down climb to the left as you look up from the Grotto to get back to the base. There were no fixed anchors so be prepared for an adventure. Have fun and start early, the approach takes about an hour or more each way. [ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: W ]

bobinc, I've been to the Grotto. It's worth going there and the long walk. "Caught Inside" is a great climb, though I can't say it's a slam dunk for five stars. There's a steep and strenuous 10a (forget the name) 20 yards away that looked very cool, and a runout .10b called "Book of (something I forget)". that looked cool, just steep and with very thin pro. There's also a .10d in there that features sustained climbing on thin pro.Caught inside is overhanging easing to vertical, a fingery crack, then a hard span into a wide hand crack that gets wider. It's a long climb and I was pretty pumped by the time I reached the breakover near the top. Save your #4 camalot as long as possible because while easy, the top is sparsely protected and greasy/polished, and you'll want to fire in that #4 to keep you from winging if you blow it and grease off on the easier section above. [ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: W ]

I rarely repeat alpine climbs in the Cascades because there is so much I want to do...so having done N.Ridge of Stuart three times and south face of Prusik twice is testimony to my opinion of them. i would repeat liberty crack also. [ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: W ]

Ray, check PM's.

quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: W, Yes it was clear I dont care about the Darwin award talk. Everyone has their moments How ya been anyway? I guess I was supposed to read Phil's mind or into the future therefore already knowing what he might post in response to my comments? I think Phil just knows I dont really care for him is all. Maybe he is trying to come out of the closet as a true homo that once secretly loved me and now hates me since he has found out I am not gay. Barf! How's that for a thinly veiled attack Phil? Oh yeah! This is great stuff! The Captain LIVES! Ya I caught a bit of the "conversation" between you two in some recent thread that was also quite entertaining.Doin' good! I think I got my waterfall ice fix for the season; lots of good days and a week in Alberta since we drank in Lillowet a month ago; still, lamenting the +9C in Lillooet all this week which ensures that the season up there will be gettin' the gong anyday. Quitting my job in three weeks. Fuckin-a right, and on the road for me.Keep it going:

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: I know it's trad. I was suggesting it probably seemed harder than 10a because I am usually considered a bolt pulling wussy on this site. Making a little joke! Actually without any joking around it is harder than 10a. Sorry I misunderstood, it read differently to me- as in, "it seemed harder because I don't climb bolted climbs very well", as opposed to the actual meaning which is that you are primarily a bolt/sport guy. There was another team on it and it did look burly for the grade. Everything in there I think was full-value for the grades...

Ray and Philfort:

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Damn! We must be getting old. Now I'll even venture an opinion which was that the Woo Li is somewhat burly for for a 10a. My mind seems to remember it at 10d. But I am a bolt pulling wussy. Both of the routes are very good. Definately much better than the average scruffy JT route. PP-Woo Li is trad, so is all the other routes in the Grotto. The only route I climbed in there was Caught Inside... it was just a year or two ago I was in there. As I remember it, Woo Li was on the left and was 10a (but looked hard for 10a, very steep!), then Book of Dreams, (or Book of whatever it was called) at 10b, on the left in the back, then straight in the back/center was a .10d flaring chimney/corner/thin crack that looked like PG/R protection. You know those typical Josh climbs where the crack doesn't quite reach the ground? Both of the latter two are like that. Caught inside is not one crack, but is climbing up cat-scratch-like discontinuous cracks, and very steep early on.

oops...that jars my memory further.. it's not "Dance of the Woo-Li Masters" which is the title of Bridwell's account of his and Mug's climb of the Moose's Tooth in 1981, but the name of the route is Dangling Woo-Li Master

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Its been a few years ( my mind might be going) but one of the following climbs I think is at the grotto and the other near it. Black President and Dance of the Woo Li Masters are very good climbs. Woo-Li Masters is the left hand 10a in the grotto that I couldn't remember the name...it looked great. Don't know about black president.

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