Bronco

quote: Originally posted by Zenolith: I agree that bin Laden and associates has to be caught (killed). I am not a pacifist. However, killing innocent people is not something a technologically advanced and supposedly moral society has to, or should, do. Yes, I have a bleeding heart, better than none. And to find out the truth I have to find uncensored news. You can't get that in the "land of the free". US reporters are not allowed in combat zones by this government. Not since reporting from battle zones in Vietnam changed the tide of public opinion have we had freedom of the press in war time. "Listen to the language of the Pentagon: "We cannot confirm thereport...civilian casualties are inevitable...we don't know if theywere our weapons...it was an accident...incorrect coordinates had beenentered...they are deliberately putting civilians in our bombingtargets...the village was a legitimate military target...it justdidn't happen...we regret any loss of civilian life." Listening to the repeated excuses given by Bush, Rumsfeld and others,one recalls Colin Powell's reply at the end of the Gulf War, whenquestioned about Iraqi casualties: "That is really not a matter I amterribly interested in." If, indeed, a strict definition of the word"deliberate" does not apply to the bombs dropped on the civilians ofAfghanistan, then we can offer, thinking back toPowell's statement, an alternate characterization: "a recklessdisregard for human life." The denials of the Pentagon are uttered confidently half a world awayin Washington. But there are on-the-spot press reports from thevillages, from hospitals where the wounded lie and from the Pakistanborder, where refugees have fled the bombs. A professor of economics at the University of NewHampshire, Marc Herold, has done a far more thorough survey of thepress than I have. He lists location, type of weapon used and sourcesof information. He finds the civilian death toll in Afghanistan up toDecember 10 exceeding 3,500 (he has since raised the figure to 4,000),a sad and startling parallel to the number of victims in the twintowers. [My freedom, as defined by this culture (Pepsi or Coke, Democrat or Republican, etc) is not worth the price being paid by others of my species. Think about]...the hopesand dreams of those who died, especially the children, for whom fortyor fifty years of mornings, love, friendship, sunsets and the sheerexhilaration of being alive were extinguished by monstrous machinessent over their land by men far away. My intention is not at all to diminish our compassion for the victimsof the terrorism of September 11, but to enlarge that compassion toinclude the victims of all terrorism, in any place, at any time,whether perpetrated by Middle East fanatics or American politicians. In that spirit, I present the following news items (only a fraction ofthose in my files), hoping that there is the patience to go throughthem, like the patience required to read the portraits of theSeptember 11 dead, like the patience required to read the 58,000 nameson the Vietnam Memorial: >From a hospital in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, reported in the BostonGlobe by John Donnelly on December 5: "In one bed lay Noor Mohammad, 10, who was a bundle of bandages. Helost his eyes and hands to the bomb that hit his house after Sundaydinner. Hospital director Guloja Shimwari shook his head at the boy'swounds. 'The United States must be thinking he is Osama,' Shimwarisaid. 'If he is not Osama, then whywould they do this?'" The report continued: "The hospital's morgue received 17 bodies last weekend, and officialshere estimate at least 89 civilians were killed in several villages.In the hospital yesterday, a bomb's damage could be chronicled in thelife of one family. A bomb had killed the father, Faisal Karim. In onebed was his wife, Mustafa Jama, who had severe head injuries....Around her, six of her children were in bandages.... One of them,Zahidullah, 8, lay in a coma." In the New York Times, Barry Bearak, reporting December 15 from thevillage of Madoo, Afghanistan, tells of the destruction of fifteenhouses and their occupants. "'In the night, as we slept, they droppedthe bombs on us,' said Paira Gul, a young man whose eyes were aflamewith bitterness. His sisters and their families had perished, hesaid.... The houses were small, the bombing precise. No structureescaped the thundering havoc. Fifteen houses, 15 ruins.... 'Most ofthe dead are children,' Tor Tul said." Another Times reporter, C.J. Chivers, writing from the village ofCharykari on December 12, reported "a terrifying and rolling barragethat the villagers believe was the payload of an American B-52.... Thevillagers say 30 people died.... One man, Muhibullah, 40, led the waythrough his yard and showed three unexploded cluster bombs he isafraid to touch. A fourth was not a dud. It landed near his porch. 'Myson was sitting there...the metal went inside him.' The boy, Zumarai,5, is in a hospital in Kunduz, with wounds to leg and abdomen. Hissister, Sharpari, 10, was killed. 'The United States killed mydaughter and injured my son,' Mr. Muhibullah said. 'Six of my cowswere destroyed and all of my wheat and rice was burned. I am veryangry. I miss my daughter.'" >From the Washington Post, October 24, from Peshawar, Pakistan, byPamela Constable: "Sardar, a taxi driver and father of 12, said hisfamily had spent night after night listening to the bombing in theircommunity south of Kabul. One night during the first week, he said, abomb aimed at a nearby radio station struck a house, killing all fivemembers of the family living there. 'There was no sign of a homeleft,' he said. 'We just collected the pieces of bodies and buriedthem.'" Reporter Catherine Philp of the Times of London, reporting October 25from Quetta, Pakistan: "It was not long after 7 pm on Sunday when thebombs began to fall over the outskirts of Torai village.... Rushingoutside, Mauroof saw amassive fireball. Morning brought an end to the bombing and...aneighbor arrived to tell him that some 20 villagers had been killed inthe blasts, among them ten of his relatives. 'I saw the body of one ofmy brothers-in-law being pulled from the debris,' Mauroof said. 'Thelower part of his body had been blown away. Some of the other bodieswere unrecognizable. There were heads missing and arms blown off....'The roll call of the dead read like an invitation list to a familywedding: his mother-in-law, two sisters-in-law, three brothers-in-law,and four of his sister's five young children, two girls and two boys,all under the age of eight." Human Rights Watch report, October 26: "Twenty-five-year-oldSamiullah...rushed home to rescue his family.... he found the bodiesof his twenty-year-old wife and three of his children: Mohibullah,aged six; Harifullah, aged three; and Bibi Aysha, aged one.... Alsokilled were his two brothers, Nasiullah, aged eight, and Ghaziullah,aged six, as well as two of his sisters, aged fourteen and eleven." >From Reuters, October 28, Sayed Salahuddin reporting from Kabul: "AU.S. bomb flattened a flimsy mud-brick home in Kabul Sunday, blowingapart seven children as they ate breakfast with their father.... Sobsracked the body of a middle-aged man as he cradled the head of hisbaby, its dust-covered body dressed only in a blue diaper, lyingbeside the bodies of three other children, their colorful clotheslayered with debris from their shattered homes." Washington Post Foreign Service, November 2, from Quetta, Pakistan, byRajiv Chandrasekaran: "The thunder of the first explosions joltedNasir Ahmed awake.... he grabbed his 14-year-old niece and scurriedinto a communal courtyard. From there, he said, they watched ascivilians who survived the bombing run, including his niece and awoman holding her 5-year-old son, were gunned down by a slow-moving,propeller-driven aircraft circling overheard. When the gunshipdeparted an hour later, at least 25 people in the village--allcivilians--were dead, according to accounts of the incident providedtoday by Ahmed, two other witnesses, and several relatives of peoplein the village. "The Pentagon confirmed that the village was hit...but officials saidthey believe the aircraft struck a legitimate military target....Asked about civilian casualties, the official said, 'We don't know.We're not on the ground.' "Shaida, 14.... 'Americans are not good.... They killed my mother.They killed my father. I don't understand why.'" A Newsday report on November 24 from Kabul, by James Rupert: "In thesprawling, mud-brick slum of Qala-ye-Khatir, most men were kneeling inthe mosques at morning prayer on November 6 when a quarter-ton ofsteel and high explosives hurtled from the sky into the home of GulAhmed, a carpet weaver. The American bomb detonated, killing Ahmed,his five daughters, one of his wives, and a son. Next door, itdemolished the home of Sahib Dad and killed two of his children.... "Ross Chamberlain, the coordinator for U.N. mine-clearing operationsin much of Afghanistan.... 'There's really no such thing as aprecision bombing.... We are finding more cases of errant targetingthan accurate targeting, more misses than hits.'" The New York Times, November 22, from Ghaleh Shafer, Afghanistan:"10-year-old Mohebolah Seraj went out to collect wood for his family,and thought he had happened upon a food packet. He picked it up andlost three fingers in an explosion. Doctors say he will probably losehis whole hand.... his mother, Sardar Seraj...said that she cried andtold the doctors not to cut off her son's whole hand... "The hospital where her son is being cared for is a grim place,lacking power and basic sanitation. In one room lay Muhammad Ayoub, a20-year-old who was in the house when the cluster bomb initiallylanded. He lost a leg and his eyesight, and his face was severelydisfigured. He moaned in agony.... Hospital officials said that a16-year-old had been decapitated." A New York Times report on December 3 from Jalalabad, Afghanistan, byTim Weiner: "The commanders, who are pro-American...say that fournearby villages were struck this weekend, leaving 80 or more peopledead and others wounded.... The villages are near Tora Bora, themountain camp where Mr. bin Laden is presumed to be hiding. A Pentagonspokesman said Saturday that the bombing of civilians near Tora Bora'never happened.' "Eight men guarding the building [a district office building]...werekilled, [mujahedeen commander] Hajji Zaman said. He gave the names ofthe dead as Zia ul-Hassan, 16; Wilayat Khan, 17; Abdul Wadi, 20; Jany,22; Abdul Wahid, 30; Hajji Wazir, 35; Hajji Nasser, also 35; and AwliaGul, 37.... Ali Shah, 26, of Landa Khel, said, 'There is no one inthis village who is part of Al Qaeda.' "Witnesses said that at least 50 and as many as 200 villagers had beenkilled. "'We are poor people,' [Muhammad] Tahir said. 'Our trees are our onlyshelter from the cold and wind. The trees have been bombed. Ourwaterfall, our only source of water--they bombed it. Where is thehumanity?'" The Independent, December 4: "The village where nothing happened....The cemetery on the hill contains 40 freshly dug graves, unmarked andidentical. And the village of Kama Ado has ceased to exist.... And allthis is very strange because, on Saturday morning--when American B-52sunloaded dozens of bombs that killed 115 men, women andchildren--nothing happened.... We know this because the U.S.Department of Defence told us so.... 'It just didn't happen.'" The New York Times, December 12, David Rohde, writing from Ghazni,Afghanistan: "Each ward of the Ghazni Hospital features a newcalamity. In the first, two 14-year-old boys had lost parts of theirhands when they picked up land mines. 'I was playing with a toy and itexploded' said one of them, Muhammad Allah.... a woman named Rose layon a bed in the corner of the room, grunting with each breath. Herwaiflike children slept nearby, whimpering periodically. Early onSunday morning, shrapnel from an American bomb tore through thewoman's abdomen, broke her 4-year-old son's leg and ripped into her6-year-old daughter's head, doctors here said. A second 6-year-oldgirl in the room was paralyzed from the waist down. X-rays showed howa tiny shard of metal had neatly severed her spinal cord." Reported in the Chicago Tribune, December 28, by Paul Salopek, fromMadoo, Afghanistan: "'American soldiers came after the bombing andasked if any Al Qaeda had lived here,' said villager Paira Gul. 'Isthat an Al Qaeda?' Gul asked, pointing to a child's severed foot hehad excavated minutes earlier from a smashed house. 'Tell me' he said,his voice choking with fury, 'is that what an Al Qaeda looks like?'" Reuters, December 31, from Qalaye Niazi, Afghanistan: "Janat Gul said24 members of his family were killed in the pre-dawn U.S. bombing raidon Qalaye Niazi, and described himself as the sole survivor.... In theU.S. Major Pete Mitchell--a spokesman for U.S. Central Command--said:'We are aware of the incident and we are currently investigating.'" Yes, these reports appeared, but scattered through the months ofbombing and on the inside pages, or buried in larger stories andaccompanied by solemn government denials. With no access toalternative information, it is not surprising that a majority ofAmericans have approved of what they have been led to think is a "waron terrorism." Recall that Americans at first supported the war in Vietnam. But oncethe statistics of the dead became visible human beings--once they sawnot only the body bags of young GIs piling up by the tens of thousandsbut also the images of the napalmed children, the burning huts, themassacred families at My Lai--shock and indignation fueled a nationalmovement to end the war. I do believe that if people could see the consequences of the bombingcampaign as vividly as we were all confronted with the horrifyingphotos in the wake of September 11, if they saw on television nightafter night the blinded and maimed children, the weeping parents ofAfghanistan, they might ask: Is this the way to combat terrorism?"-Howard Zinn in "The Nation" If this is what America stands for, don't call me one. I just thought it would be cool to make this page as long as possible. I am not about to get into this discussion. You guys are way too sophisticated/edjacated and would bury me.

I'm kinda confused Caveman, everyone is talking about iceguy except you who talks about icegirl, have you ever seen that movie "The Crying Game"? Check her for an adam's apple next time. Its a dead give away.

I thought you were that age mattp!!

>An Irishman named Murphy went to his doctor after a long illness. The doctor, after a lengthy examination, sighed and looked Murphy in the eye and said, "I've some bad news for you... you have the cancer and it can't be cured. I'd give you two weeks to a month." > >Murphy, shocked and saddened by the news, but of solid character, managed to compose himself and walk from the doctor's office into the waiting room. There he saw his son who had been waiting. > >Murphy said, "Son, we Irish celebrate when things are good and celebrate when things don't go so well. In this case, things aren't so well. I have cancer and I've been given a short time to live. Let's head for the pub and have a few pints." > >After three or four pints, the two were feeling a little less somber. There were some laughs and more beers. They were eventually approached by some of Murphy's old friends who asked what the two were celebrating. Murphy told them that the Irish celebrate the good and the bad...He went on to tell them that they were drinking to his impending end. He told his friends "I've only got few weeks to live as I have been diagnosed with AIDS." > >The friends gave Murphy their condolences and they had a couple more beers. After his friends left, Murphy's son leaned over and whispered his confusion, "Dad, I thought you said that you were dying from cancer? You just told your friends that you were dying from AIDS!" > >Murphy said, " I am dying from cancer, son. I just don't want any of them sleeping with your mother after I'm gone."

good article al! I'd like to go against convention on the sprayboard and give a thumbs up to REI for supporting Gary Brill's Avalanche training class which was well worth the money and I'd highly recomend it for anyone.

I know its not a "climbers" brand but Eddiebauer revolutionized down clothing and aparantly still makes some worthy cloths. Down Jacket for $59.99 - Check it out. http://www.eddiebaueroutlet.com/product.asp?product_id=20306&nv=443|449

nice job on keeping your team together and reaching the summit TG!! (good TR as well) I know it's tacky but, maybe you were supposed to be there too give the portugese lady some help instead of on the route you wanted to be on. Here is a link to an article about climbing Aconcaeagua incase some of you may not be in the know (like me) http://www.climbing.com/Pages/feature_stories/feature209.html pretty funny stuff. sounds like Mt. Hood or Rainier on a sunny summer weekend.

18 seems like a trick question. What the hell else are you supposed to use, a rock? your hand? your #5 camalot?

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: .... Ask Bronco about me taking some good zingers last summer at Index I think it did some good for his belief that pro works seeing it first hand...... Thats my preferred method, watching someone else take repeated falls above my head. Looking forward to watching you this season from above.

quote: Originally posted by Matt Anderson: ....As far as little exercises I use to get past the irrational fear? I do these: I start up a pitch with good gear and jump. Make sure your partner knows your purpose, so he won't let you weenie out of it. Jump multiple times over different pieces of gear. If you want to progress beyond that, have your partner start calling out where he thinks you should fall. If you protect so that the falls are always ok, you'll start accepting that doing it anywhere (so long as the gear is adequate) is ok. No disrespect, Matt Anderson, but, as my dear ol' mom likes to say: HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND???

go out too the crags and find yerself (stalk) some mentors. the more the merrier because you can take the best from each of them. once you get "in the loop" experienced partners will appear like clockwork. save your grandmas money for a better cause you moocher.

The waist belt is removable on the Ice pack. I woulden't buy it without trying it on though. Just my $.01

dgbsstt: I'd greatly appreciate it. You can send them too me at: rpmcousa@aol.com mattp: the road is gated just after it crosses from the South to the North side of the N. Fork of the Skykomish which is 6 or 7 miles from the Blanca Lake Trailhead if that helps. It also looks like you could beat brush and follow the Troublesome Creek drainiage to Blanka, but, bring your chainsaw.

Dru - you're lucky they didn't arrest you on the spot. That guy is a known felon (breaking and entering WI 3),wanted in 3 states (is canada a state yet?), armed and dangerous (with a cell phone)!!! He has allegedly been a mennace to sport climbers as well!!

wow miker, I was able to shave about .1 off of my first score after 10 tries but I am a wanker with a .27 personal best. have a good weekend guys.

I am going to be at Blewett pass over the weekend with my wife/potential belayer and wondered if my ice tools and rope were to "accidentaly" get into the truck do you guys know of any decent short pitches of ice on HWY 97 between Blewett and Leavenworth??

quote: Originally posted by miker: Has anyone tried the Kelty Redwing 2900? I am interested in a good pack for rock climbing hikes, no alpine. It looks good, but I have never used a Kelty pack and was curious about there 'rep'. miker(97 posts) I had one for a couple of years and for some reason, it always drove me nuts. It was always a little too small to get everything into or a little too big and snaggin on brush or getting in the way. The compression straps dont work great but, it is very cheap and hard to beat the price on the REI outlet website. Still, I'd say keep looking. On a different subject, I'm looking for a very small, light, summit pack like the BD Bullet or Lowe Attack Summit, something around 1 - 1.5 lbs and less than $50. I may just get an Eddie Bauer book bag for that matter. ($19.95) I am such a gear slut!!

Dru - it sounds like a more serious problem than you alude too. I have a similar problem myself. "These cheap, piece of garbage *shoes*!! if only I had better/different *shoes* I could climb 5.10 without any problem. Just look at the *shoes* so-and-so has and he can climb anything" *insert any peice of gear* cams, helmets, tools, whatever. Whatever it is quit whining and blaming your gear for your poor performance and just admit it - the climb was just too easy for you to bother to pay attention. Thats what I do!

maybe you shoulden't drink so many mickey for lunch w/Dwayner

quote: Originally posted by Bronco: ......... From HWY 2 its about 4 miles and 2,000 - 2,500' gain to the trailhead....... What a bozo that dude Bronco is. From what I hear, he is such a bad climber, he brings newbies to Index and has them wear cowboy boots so he can look good. Scott - After reading these other posts, I checked it out and it's at least 6 miles from the gate to the TH.

scott- FS # 62 is less than 10 miles from Zekes Drive In east of Goldbar. The gate is about 100 yards off of hwy 2 and the reason you wont make it much farther than the gate is we have about 10" of heavy wet snow near Monroe = probably alot more at the gate on FS #62 which is not plowed to my knowledge. From HWY 2 its about 4 miles and 2,000 - 2,500' gain to the trailhead. From trailhead to the summit is only about 3 miles and another 2,000' elevation gain. You can stay in the trees to avoid avvy danger until you near the summit. Watch out for walking onto major cornices extending north and east along the ridge and at the summit. It's a long way down. Take ski's if at all possible, most of the terrain would be skiable. [ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: Bronco ]

The black diamond snow pack II is on sale at the REI outlet if you like it. I have a BD Ice Pack that seems fine, but, it's nothing special. My next pack will be a nozone from arcteryx You really are a menace.

quote: Originally posted by hakioawa: ........Agrument for argument sake can be fun at times. But somtimes it gets a little old. I keep waiting to hear an argument about benefits of right vs. left handed belaying. Right hand is the only way!! Only losers use their left hand!!!

They overlooked the great bolt/no bolt war of 2001 in the Cascade Range. And the skirmish on the upper flanks of Mt. Rainier over who owns the Muir Hut.

quote: Originally posted by mtnrgr: What is the best cord to sling BD hexes? I recently purchased a few, but the 5mm cord I have won't fit. How do you fuse Maxim tech cord? The core won't melt with a regular lighter. check this out: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000086 and I ended up using 5.5 spectra for mine with a double fishermans. Experiment with your lenghts as it is a personal preference matter. The holes are tight and kind of bothersome for feeding cord though, but it will work just fine. A small propane torch works pretty good for melting the ends if you have one.