Dru

sounds like it would be a natural... you know... for a reachy type climb... cause "ape index" is reach and it would be at index... duh? i saw that bigfoot there at the espresso hut maybe that is the Index Ape?

so is there a route at index called "ape index" or not?

erik where is snoop dogg sig?

Hiked up Nesakwatch Creek on Saturday to check out winter conditions on Slesse. Couldnt see Slesse (socked in) but there was some interesting ice formations at km 1.5 on the west side of the creek, about 250m above the creek. warm temps were having an effect , i saw a spectacular 30m pillar collapse and avalanche all the way down to the creek at about km 9, on the west side of the illusion peaks, there is a highly interesting flow coming out of the bowl between the illusions (first drainage north of the Chinese Puzzle). potentially huge avvy threat from the bowl above, but looked like about 5 pitches of ice up granite walls with snow ledges for belays in between. might be a good hit for colder & stable conditions. AFAIK all this stuff is unclimbed. the road up the creek is basically undriveable past the bottom of the first hill and requires snowmobile, snowshoes or skis past that point. up to there, though, 2wd access is fine.

you watchin' Oprah, payaso? what be the latest dirt? she still mad at jon franzen for declining book club status?

there was an ad for an xl down parka up on the message board at the acc clubhouse in canmore over new years. you could call the front desk there andask them to read you the ad.

yeah - learning how to make BELAY ANCHORS is as important, if not more important, than knowing how to place gear en route. especially for those times there is neither a large tree nor a pair of bolts on top of the route.

ya waterworks is a 2 star, 100m grade 3 somewhere between lady killer (that gully 2km west of the bridge) and pretty nuts (the roadside ice by the bridge). i bet capt. can make something out of those names! your nearest ice in port alice would be... mt washington? 8 hr drive? or is there some obscure stuff up in the tsitika?

One thing I have found about beginners placing pro on TR is it does not mentally prepare them for being on the sharp end. i say its better to lead a 5.4 placing gear than to place gear on a 5.8 TR. unless you are a 5.4 top-roper that is.

Dan - I hear Liberty Ridge is not that hard of a climb but not a great place to telemark. Oh well I got a #3 tri Cam out of it anyways. Still I would rather have had David around rather than the gear.

yeah tg get in a riot for us while you are down there man. see if you can score some north face knock-offs while you are looting!

true dedication when a cc.commer posts from half way round the world!

i dunno about the aid climbing. once i saw a beginning leader aiding to learn how to place gear. he started leading up "kangaroo corner" at the smoke bluffs, his 6th piece pulled, he zippered the next two and stopped with his helmet touching the ground. oops. i personally think the best thing to do is 1 0 borrow a huge rack of gear and go to the base of some crag with a wide variety of cracks on it like mtneerrs dome of whatever. then place every single piece of gear on the rack and attach webbing to it and try and get the gear to pull out by yarding on it. then 2) lead a bunch (10 or so ) of super easy climbs like 5.4 and easier. it will probably be kinda boring but you should practice placing gear whenever you can like maybe 20 pieces on a 20 meter climb. sew the bastard up! then just start leading stuff. try and push yourself into falling off on gear by leading a few climbs at your limit. nothing makes you trust your gear more than having it hold a fall.

there used to be a climb at skaha called "i saw you put your nuts in your mouth" but that cliff is closed now.

Thomas according to the guidebook Waterworks is like 350m east of LADY KILLER!!. We could see ice when approaching on Hwy but we hiked up into the wrong area somehow. Think we should have parked in next pullout E of Lady killer instead of at base. Isnt the ice you are referring (near Asylum) to, essondale L & R ????? PS port alice, you poor bastard, how do you survive? I worked there one summer. NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!! +8 C and raining all year long.

if you have a "magic" wand does that make you a fairy godmother like glinda the good? in which case why not turn some snafflehounds and a pumpkin into a coach and horses and ride to the summit in style? my questions are: what weighs more, 1 GPS or 200 wands? How much Gu do you have to leave behind to carry those 200 wands?What does Twight say in Extreeeeeeeeeem Alpinism?why buy them when you can raid your neighbour's garden and cut your own bamboo?Can you eat them if you get snowbound? I hear bamboo shoots are good. I guess they make good firewood but probably burn up pretty fast.Why not get your avalanche poodles to drag the wands for you, that way you can carry more weed up the mountain to smoke in muir hut. just some thoughts on this important topic. trying to contribute useful stuff in 2002!

try some of the links from rockandice.com conditions page. i am never planning to climb there anyways so dont reall care what conditions are like.

maybe it was this thread! http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001201 if its NOT down, and it has lost loft, you're screwed. it never comes back. that is why down is better!

The thread about Wand Sizes did acquire a lot of silliness too. Thank God for that!

Just to keep the misguided perverts happy - Rachel Babkirk , Rachel Babkirk, Rachel Babkirk! Darryl - I too have met many PNW climbers who do not post to cc.com. In fact I have often discussed the site with them. I wonder though, if eliminating some spray would get many of these people to post anything. I actually doubt it. This site probably is more representative of the PNW climbing community than is a site like www.bivouac.com which is totally spray free and has far fewer posters despite a very high "click through" rate. Fact is about 90% of all web users like to lurk and can rarely muster the urge to post anything in any environment, spray-on or spray-off. And many people out there, especially many more "experienced" climbers, seem not to like to disseminate beta, but prefer to hide it for whatever reason. You know, the guys who after the guidebook comes out, mention that they did six routes on Peak XXXX way before the ascents listed but never reported them... and get all mad about it...????????? I can never figure that out. Admittedly, I will be the first to agree with you that flame wars can be kinda jarring. but they can be fun for the spectators! and they do seem to crop up all over the net. as for immature name calling and insults i try not to do too much of it but it happens. without it we would never have had the beauty of the Muir on Saturday thread

quote: Originally posted by vegetablebelay: I dunno - Heinouscling makes me think of laundry.....or batwings "Why is the Starship Enterprise like toilet paper? Cause it circles Uranus wiping out Klingons." That lame old joke is what I think of when I hear Heinouscling.

Caveman and I are employed as Web Linesmen. we monitor all high-traffic internet sites for possible damage to the web continuum and intervene when necessary. Just like that dude in Johnny Mnemnonic or whatever. its a tough job but somebody got to do it and it might as well be me.

quote: Originally posted by vegetablebelay: Sportclimber fer shur You mean Sprotclimber?

If Dwayner was RURP he would always introiduce himself by saying "This is DWAYNER" and finish off by noting that "DWAYNER has spoken". Besides we all know that pope is RURP, aka PURP and Donna Top Step. Ps to Dwayner : freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies freshies [ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Dru ]

To counterpoint Darryl I will mention Jon's statistic that something like 10% of the people who visit this site get directed here by doing a web search for the words "Rachel Babkirk" You get out of this site what you put into it. Everybody seems to bag on it but so what. Over 90% of the posts on this site are either self-referential or just plain old spray but i still don't see how that diminishes the other 10% which is so-called useful knowledge of whatever sort. Frankly every climbing related bulletin board on the net has exactly the same so-called problems dating back to the bitchy original, rec.climbing. There is no website that perfectly represents the climbing community and there never will be, because discussions on a climbing website are like discussions climbers have in a bar, often only tangentially connected to climbing, more often than not, about the issues of personal importance to those having the conversation. If you want to build a site which is nothing but beta then go for the www.bivouac.com model which honestly is dull as ditchwater. Generally speaking on this site if you ask an honest question you get an honest answer (and possibly some spray along with it) and if you ask a stupid question than you get a stupid answer. Perhaps those who don't like this site should start a thread on "Spray" called "Cc.com Sucks" in order to properly vent their spleens! A final tip - if you don't want to be sprayed at as much try posting under a girly sounding name - Mr. Ray Borbon pointed this out to me and allowed me to borrow one of his many avatars to try it out and it is correct and accurate. Oh yeah, and and and and and