TimL

climbing until failure no matter how big the fall.

PP - Get out and friggin climb. I remember climbing with a good friend of mine in Banff. Some place we lost a screw. We decided to split the cost. Then, he comes back and points out that one of his ice screws had the tip grinded just a little bit down because it hit rock. A really small blemish. And he blamed me for doing it. Being a nice guy, I traded him screws. His BD for my grivel. Two years after we are chatting after climbing and he trys to get me to retrade screws. This time he says he wants his BD back because he doesn´t like Grivels. I called bullshit. I have another partner that everytime he lost a piece of gear he would search my harness, then his pack, then my pack before always finding the lost whatever on his harness or on the ground next to him. Really annoying, but if you know this person it is really funny. Funny thing. Both people are engineer-type people.

Debs Crack is good, but I thought hard. Has anyone tried Willians 12? For a good destination for harder cracks do Radio Sex, Scholar with a Dolar and Lazy Boy. All really good routes and all next to each other.

At the base of City Park theere is a nice crack for a couple cams, then tie off a couple bolts on the way up. At the bast of 10%, which is a nice solo, there is a large crack that will take 2, 3 and a 4. You should be able to find a good solo anchor at the base of Iron Horse. Especially soloing, make sure to put an upward and downward force directional piece. I can´t tell you how many people I´ve seen zipper every piece from the beginning of the climb to the pin half way up.

Nice climb, but I don´t no about 3 stars. I thought the bottom overhanging, funky start was harder than the top. Sor sure a nice route, although short. Zig Zag Crack on Alphabet is a better route close to the grade.

Doing BOC in one pitch is the way to go! Mega classic. I have always wanted to do Marginal Karma from the ground, but never have. I think to make it better, break right from Rogers Corner early before the tree and plug away. A nice 11b in Levenworth with a small overhang and some thin fingers is Pumpline at Careno Crag. BP, you should check it out sometime! Sitting around at the top of Rogers Corner or on the GNS always brings back memories. They is nothing like sitting on top of the slab on a hot spring day and watching avy´s shoot out of the buttresses on Index.

Look at the date on the original post. I´ll be back either in Feb to go to Banff, or next summer which is most likely.

I had an issue flying from Toronto to Seattle one time with a rope in my backpack which was my carry-on item. The security guard at the check point made me check it in because he said it was prohibited and a risk to the passengers and crew.....

Blast from the past! Yep a sheep and yep I think my dirty white car is still dirty.

Yeah, I do remember clipping that mank. I think you can put in a medium size cam under the small roof before the hand traverse to make it less spicey. I remeber the begining moves into the roof travese as being "Interesting".

It protects well with cams and nuts of all sizes.

Nice classic 5.8. It is what a 5.8 should be! The climb protects well. Look on either side of the wall and the pro is there. Not sure if I would call it ran out, but its not a sport climb. If I remember right, it is hard to figure out which way to chimney, but as you go up, the route gets easy.

If your willing to spend the time, it would be a service to the community to carefully pull the bolts on Yellow Bird and hide the holes. I don´t remember Easter Overhang having any bolts, but if it does, they are not needed. Also, no need for a rap station above Easter Overhang, you can traverse over to the ROTC anchors and rap with a single 60. The climb that would benifit the most is the Dagaba System.

I don´t remember anything on Yellowbird that couldn´t be led with modern gear. Maybe replace the top rap anchor, if I remember correctly it was kinda nasty. The Dagaba System is in some serious need of all of it´s hardware replaced. I´m sure if someone did this, it would be an awesome route that would get done more often.

The Chris Mac Supertope/Supercrowded Free Climbs is a good book for classics. The are some shorter routes at the Camp 4 wall in the 5.7-5.9 range, but mostly not worth the effort. The Churchbowl is also a really nice place to crag. Pine Line 5.7 at the base of El Cap is really nice, but short. Around the area are also a bunch of crag routes. Bishops Terrace - Amazing 5.8 Braile Book - Hard 5.8 Multi Pitch Nutcracker - 5.8 is amazing, but expect crowds Commitment 5.9 in the Five Open Books is nice. Moby Dick - 5.10a - great OW, bring several 3, 3.5 and 4. East Buttress of El Cap is a nice long 5.10- Serenity Crack thru Sons of Yesterday is beautiful. The 5.10- pitches felt harder than the crux 10d pitch, which is only like 15 feet.

I´ve been on both routes your talking about. Stern Farmer full, freed by Mike Shaeffer, I think in the spring of 04, goes at something around 5.12c. The crux comes after the anchors before the roof. The roof is not actually that bad and is very enjoyable. I believe there is another crux higher. I watched Mike working on it. It was a very proud send. I´did the first pitch of Narrow Arrow Direct on TR around that same time. I believe it comes in somewhere around 12c or d. Very beautiful climb with the top part being the crux. The lower part is not that bad, but the top 10 feet is super difficult. Certainly very doable. I´m surprised it resisted attempts for as long as it did.

I´ve been there once for about a week. I thought Cannon Cliff was really nice. Moby Grape is moderate. Cathedral Ledge is really, really good. Thê Prow is a nice free climb and to the left of it is a nice dihidral, Recombeast. Don´t miss the Gunks, they might be a bit far, but besides the Cookie in Yosemite and Index, they are one of the best crags I´ve ever visited.

Don´t know about Indian Creek, but I´ve seen route names inscribed in the stone here and in Canada. Awful practice in my opinion.

I´ve climbed enough with Alex to know that he is not a vigilante looking for a bolt war. Something was bolted really bad to get a response from him. I know of routes in LW that are grid bolted, forced lines that have no place being on the rock. As for Condomorphine, I think its a good route. It has a few to many bolts for my taste, but its a good route. I think it would be better as a mixed route, but thats just my opinion.

Good job Loren and Jens. Why is everyone so quick to judge? These guys just shared information and JoshK had to come out moaning about danger. What is the problem? Are Jens and Loren stealing all the attention from his FA´s? I don´t see either of the two looking for fame and glory with their FA. They just posted information about their climb. And the innformation they posted did not seem to be chestbeating orr spraying. Ascents that are objectively risky happen all the time. This time it was just shared on CC. To me its not a judgement call about the climbers. If they want to risk their neck then fine. I would not do this line. Its between them, their families and the powers that be. I don´t understand what the fuss is all about. They are experienced climbers that had the ability and knowledge to get the job done with a litle bit of luck, everything turned out fine. TThe same story has happened with all of us to one extent or the other. One could moan about the dangerious nature of their route, but they did it in fine style. If something happened and they were killed, well they put themselves in the situation so it would be no surprise. This discussion might be best moved to a forum about objective risk and how much you are willing to put on the line.

SH - My memory is fading at an early age. Yes, it was Piton Tower. Cheers, T

ErikN - It is awesome that you brought up this subject for people to discuss. Ii think you will get a fair reading of opinions from this topic. Although I have not climbed the route, STM, I have spent a lot of time at Midnight Rock and I have climbed the the grade on bolts and gear for many years now. My opinion is you should let the route remain as it is. If you want to climb it, figure it out the honest way, leading it ground up, or TR it. After all it is your experinece and you should figure out how you want to do it. But, please don´t change the experience for others. Although I don´t live in the area now, when I come back to visit this route is on my tick list. In the scope of things, you can´t add a bolt to every route that has a scary section. If you are climbing 5.11-5.12 on gear, you should know that by nature some of the routes are harder to protect. If you are a sollid climber at the grade, you should have the mental and physical control too get the job done. If you don´t, pick harder routes that have better potential for protection.. Just an example from about a year ago. Alex and I went up to Rattlesnake Rock and Tumwater Tower. We did some of the more popular routes and then went searching for new routes. On the road side of TT there is a vegitated route that we did not think had been climbed. We TR´d it and cleaned it off a little and found an old pin and bolt. Although the route was very nice once cleaned, it did not match up to any descriptions in the guidebook. We were getting ready to add a couple bolts but upon making a couple calls and doing a little more research we found that Peter Croft had already freed the line. To us there was no questiion of altering the route so we let it be in its existing state as a challennge to anyone that comes along. BTW - it might need a little more cleaning, but it is a nice route.

For once in my life I have to agree with pope. Enjoy the TR or sac it up and lead it the way it is. Don´t add a bolt to this climb to dumb it downto a lower level. Climbing will never be ssafe, so don´t try to pretend it is!

Well Rumr, you have an open invitation to come and visit with a free place to stay! The climbing at Monserrat is much like Smith, very delicate and technical.

Why climb in France? Too many frenchies to deal with. Good chance we might be free around that time period. Maybe we can hook up someplace? The Mediterrain Coast? Try Montserrat. Close to Barcelona. I just came from there today. Great place with awesome climbing on some very weird rock. Conglomerate. Great sport climbing. Also there is a lot of easy and hard multipitch routes anywhere from 3 - 10 pitches. I´ll post some pictures soon. On the bigger walls, the north facing routes, expect traditionally bolted climbs with good run outs.