Plus ça change...

[ivan]

Only your reply of showing radical Christians isn't apples to apples. The jesus freaks you show aren't even statistically significant.

 

The Muslims in the above video are a dime a dozen and they're fucking serious. In fact there's more than a billion of them.

 

CWC01 is right, ISIS is a problem and the entire religion of Islam is a problem.

 

Tvash is right when he says we need to turn ISIS into a grease spot.

 

As for France, they're a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys that already gave their Nation away by letting so many Muslims immigrate. Then none of the European couples are having kids and the Muslims are having 8. I've read that by the year 2040 there will be more Muslims in France than French.

 

Then Sharia Law will be introduced and you'll hear the prayers broadcast from loudspeakers five times a day....in Paris.

 

FRANCE WILL BE AN ISLAMIC STATE BY 2050!!!!!

 

Every time someone says the terrorists are a minority and most of Islam is peaceful I just cringe.

 

I spent years of my adult life in the middle east, this isn't my cnn opinion.

france has been under attack from muslims since 732 AD and they're still up to their eyeballs in hot chicks, questionable cheese and solid wine 13 centuries later - seems miiiiighty hysterical to think such a track record is in serious existential peril

 

i don't understand the "islam is a problem" folks b/c really, even if that was true, where does that leave you? you want to write an exception into the 1st amendment? round'em up n' put'em in camps? i don't see how pursuing that line of thought takes you anywhere but to auschwitz. guess you crazy fools are fine w/ that. i'm not.

 

 

 

 

[JasonG]

i don't understand the "islam is a problem" folks b/c really, even if that was true, where does that leave you? you want to write an exception into the 1st amendment? round'em up n' put'em in camps? i don't see how pursuing that line of thought takes you anywhere but to auschwitz. guess you crazy fools are fine w/ that. i'm not.

 

This is the problem. Within the US, about all you can do realistically is put significant restrictions on immigration from areas where radical islamists are common- something you are already seeing happening. Of course that doesn't protect against home-grown whackos as was evident in Paris a week ago.

 

No easy answers, you can't exactly bomb an ideology. Our experience over the last few decades in the Middle East is more akin to Whack a Mole. I view calls for us to whack more intelligently with a hefty dose of skepticism.

[Choada_Boy]

Christianity exterminated most of the indigenous peoples on N and S America, who knows how many in colonial Africa and Asia. The US and its allies have continued this proud tradition ever since, blasting "godless" communists and heathens constantly for every generation. 2.5 million dead in East Asia 1954-75? "Domino Effect". Islam has its own dark heritage. Common theme? Religion.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Diseases exterminated most of the indigenous peoples on N and S America, who had little immunity to them....

 

fixed that for ya

[KaskadskyjKozak]

i don't understand the "islam is a problem" folks b/c really, even if that was true, where does that leave you? you want to write an exception into the 1st amendment? round'em up n' put'em in camps? i don't see how pursuing that line of thought takes you anywhere but to auschwitz. guess you crazy fools are fine w/ that. i'm not.

 

This is the problem. Within the US, about all you can do realistically is put significant restrictions on immigration from areas where radical islamists are common- something you are already seeing happening. Of course that doesn't protect against home-grown whackos as was evident in Paris a week ago.

 

No easy answers, you can't exactly bomb an ideology. Our experience over the last few decades in the Middle East is more akin to Whack a Mole. I view calls for us to whack more intelligently with a hefty dose of skepticism.

 

And now Turkey and Russia are on a path of escalation that could lead to WWIII. All over what? Fucking Syria, Assad, and ISIS.

 

[JasonG]

The markets don't seem to agree that we're heading to WWIII. I have to admit I've been a bit surprised at how they've shrugged the past few weeks' events off.

[ivan]

Common theme? Religion.

i've been a screaming atheist my whole life, but i'm a fool if i think that means my creed gets a pass on the violence question. mao and stalin and lenin all have to hide in my closet.

 

i might be entirely wrong, but i wouldn't be surprised if most of the religious lunatics in the world are actually atheists at their core - certainly all they seem to care about is themselves - they just seem to use the religion to justify their insanity - are they really so different from the european armored thugs that descended on the middle east in the 11th century? what % of crusaders do you think really took the faith seriously vs just saw the whole endeavour as a great business opportunity?

[JasonG]

i might be entirely wrong, but i wouldn't be surprised if most of the religious lunatics in the world are actually atheists at their core - certainly all they seem to care about is themselves - they just seem to use the religion to justify their insanity - are they really so different from the european armored thugs that descended on the middle east in the 11th century? what % of crusaders do you think really took the faith seriously vs just saw the whole endeavour as a great business opportunity?

 

I think for much of human history this is correct. But I also think ISIS really believes they are carrying out the will of Allah

 

If you haven't read the Atlantic article linked above, it's pretty chilling. We're in for it.

[ivan]

how many waves of eager-crazy have we of this earth weathered i wonder? and how many storms more shall break this bitterness upon us only to shatter again in mutual agony?

 

 

[ivan]

I also think ISIS really believes they are carrying out the will of Allah

does it matter? the result is the same. my krazy-dipshit neighbor n' his multitudinous kids are in the depth of their umptee-umph meth binge again

[KaskadskyjKozak]

how many waves of eager-crazy have we of this earth weathered i wonder? and how many storms more shall break this bitterness upon us only to shatter again in mutual agony?

 

 

how many? too many.

 

see the subject line

[ivan]

the central riddle of the universe is that things change yet everything stays the same, no?

 

living things don't like each other. repeat.

[JasonG]

does it matter? the result is the same.

 

I think it does, if as only as it relates to the duration of the fight. Having a foe that welcomes death as a matter of destiny is not so easy to deal with. ISIS fully expects to be whittled down to 5K across the whole globe before Jesus comes back to march with them to victory (Yes, I typed that right).

 

Not quite as easy to re-program as the Nazis or Khmer Rouge.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

the central riddle of the universe is that things change yet everything stays the same, no?

 

living things don't like each other. repeat.

 

And right now it smells likes 1914. Fuck.

[ivan]

sure hope not - we can't take another roudn of that hopped up crazy

 

great book, should you be in the market, is "the proud tower" by barbara tuchmann - she got famous by telling the story of 1914, but this follow-on history of the 40 years or so leading up to 1914 is equally worthy - the problem of radical ideologies run through it - there's comfort in it - crazy is alwasy w/ us

[tvashtarkatena]

Now now, when I vote 'WAR', it comes with caveats. Lots and lots of caveats.

 

Turning ISIS into a 'grease spot' is a lot more complicated than it seems.

 

First, to those espousing and spreading anti-muslim sentiment in the US - you've got swollen ISIS cock in your mouth. In one fell swoop this a) shits all over the 1st Amendment, and therefore the core of America's values, b) Give the enemy the recruiting fuel they need , and is therefore treasonous, c) Targets our biggest allies in this war of ideas, as well as the most frequent targets of terrorism by a huge margin, and d) is, on its face, fucked and you're just a fucking racist dickhead. 'Muslims', all 1.2 billion of them, aren't the problem and you fuck well know it - dickheads are the problem, whether they call themselves ISIS, al qaeda, or Pol Pot.

 

Yes, we probably need some ground troops wrestle back that territory, BUT

 

First, most ISIS fighters are forced into service under penalty of death or slavery. They'll surrender in a heart beat if you give them a chance - which we fuck well should, both for the sake of our troops, civilians in the area, and ISIS recruiting bullshit. The more muslims we kill, the more sign on. We should minimize that number.

 

Second, this war would be waged in cities full of civilians. See paragraph one.

 

3rd - ISIS is a movement. It could reconstitute in any relatively lawless region on earth - Somalia, Yemen, a third of Africa. A new caliphate could spring up if we don't keep the muslim casualties and civil liberties violations down.

 

And who is going to put that region back together and how? Anyone? Fuckin' hard problem, that, considering you've got over 1000 militias, ISIS, al qaeda, the Russkies, us, the Euros, Iranians, Assad, Iraqis, Kurds, Turks, fighting every kind of war there is, all in the same resource depleted shitheap of rubble and heat.

 

This is a hard, complex problem for big, smart people, not idiots who can't distinguish between perp, ally, and victim, who neither know nor want to know the data.

 

If they did, they'd be forcing gun toting, poorly educated white guys to sport a yellow dickhead emblem on their camo.

 

Every terrorist since 911 was an American citizen. Every terrorist in Paris was either a French or Belgian citizen.

 

Yeah, let's round of some refugees.

 

Dickheads.

[ivan]

brown people make brown spots in my big-boy panties

[tvashtarkatena]

Yeah, peeps are trotting out the WWIII rhetoric at work, too. It's titillating to imagine it all. Time to stock up on Beanie Weenies.

 

But...come on. This shit happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME between super powers. "Oh...kinda sorry we collided with your sub and sent it straight to the bottom".

 

Sure, things will be tense, its hardass on hardass action right now, but these guys didn't get to where they are by being dumbasses. These guys are fucking Machiavellian Dieties in getting what they want and being smart about it. Neither wants the destruction of the state that grants them all that power.

 

Turkey poses no real threat against Russia; that knowledge should calm things down a bit. Putin feels bad, sure, but the Russians had apparently been testing their boundaries for weeks and, well, they found them. They'll flex, maybe shoot a helicopter or something, fuck over their own tourists, and it'll blow away because it has to.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2015 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

Never forget that kindness, even as war rages, is the way forward.

[ivan]

fun trivia fact: the first great genocide of the 20th century occurred after russia declared war on turkey - funnier still is the turks deny calling it a genocide despite the gulf of a century and god-awful proof of the fact

[KaskadskyjKozak]

fun trivia fact: the first great genocide of the 20th century occurred after russia declared war on turkey - funnier still is the turks deny calling it a genocide despite the gulf of a century and god-awful proof of the fact

 

Yep, and go back a few centuries to the Ottamans and the Caliphate of old. Good times.

[olyclimber]

[video:youtube]cY4zap-XR9Q

[glassgowkiss]

Only your reply of showing radical Christians isn't apples to apples. The jesus freaks you show aren't even statistically significant.

 

The Muslims in the above video are a dime a dozen and they're fucking serious. In fact there's more than a billion of them.

 

CWC01 is right, ISIS is a problem and the entire religion of Islam is a problem.

 

Tvash is right when he says we need to turn ISIS into a grease spot.

 

As for France, they're a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys that already gave their Nation away by letting so many Muslims immigrate. Then none of the European couples are having kids and the Muslims are having 8. I've read that by the year 2040 there will be more Muslims in France than French.

 

Then Sharia Law will be introduced and you'll hear the prayers broadcast from loudspeakers five times a day....in Paris.

 

FRANCE WILL BE AN ISLAMIC STATE BY 2050!!!!!

 

Every time someone says the terrorists are a minority and most of Islam is peaceful I just cringe.

 

I spent years of my adult life in the middle east, this isn't my cnn opinion.

 

what a load of shit post. So you have spent some time in the middle east- where the fuck exactly? you seem like to total clueless fuck and a complete retard not understanding what you see and hear. the biggest number of people believing in koran is Indonesia. totally working democracy btw, who elected 3 female prime ministers. another big (over 300 millions) country with majority muslim population is pakistan. if you compare the numbers, actually arabs are in minority. this is not islam problem, it's a fucking arab problem, and particularly saudi/qatar problem. these are the fucks financing this bullshit. and till we stop treating saudis as allays and start treating them as our enemy #1, this shit will continue.

[AlpineK]

European immigrants were so kind and benevolent to the locals

 

• Massacres of Native Americans
  

 

[img:center]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Woundedknee1891.jpg/300px-Woundedknee1891.jpg[/img]

[ivan]

 

Yep, and go back a few centuries to the Ottamans and the Caliphate of old. Good times.

it's been 20 years since i took my history of islam class but i seem to recall the caliphate concept disappeared within a century or so of muhammad's death - it's periodic re-invention since then was generally the product of zealots like those of isis-fame

 

that said, the history of the first caliphate i recollect was actually extremely moderate in terms of imposing its beliefs on non-arabs - "people of the book" aka christians and jews were protected, and anyone in conquered lands could practice their chosen faith, albeit being required to pay a higher tax