Eric T Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I've been keeping up with NPS Yosemite concession deal and am so disgusted at the amount of corporate involvement in the National Park Service. "Without fanfare or much explanation, the National Park Service on Wednesday announced the close of bidding for the controversial contract worth $2 billion to run the concessions at Yosemite National Park. Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2015/01/21/4341502/park-service-says-controversial.html#storylink=cpy 2 billion dollars!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Whisky Tango Foxtrot Over! It's obvious that the NPS doesn't care about preserving our Nations treasures for us or future generations. It's obvious that the NPS is simply a corporation whose cash cow is peddling the most beautiful spots in America back to Americans. Why do we let this go on? Now the NPS wants to expand The North Cascades National park. To protect it? I seriously doubt it. I think the NPS want to expand The NCNP to commoditize it. Wilderness Area is protection, the NPS is a corporation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonathanjarrett Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 What you lament is unfortunately nothing new. Take for example Yellowstone. It was partially because of lobbying by agents from the Northern Pacific Railway that Congress passed the bill establishing the park. The railroad saw it as an destination they could profit from. Although the rail service wouldn't be complete for another decade, eventually everything would come under the monopolistic control of the Yellowstone Park Improvement Company which was closely tied to, you guessed it, the Northern Pacific. It is up to attentive citizens to keep an eye on these things, yet we also need to acknowledge that it is the pure volume of day trippers, those who never leave the paved paths, who subsidize the small fraction of people who use the infrastructure to recreate in those wild places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 so long as i can still get the 99 cent frozen burritoes and free salsa packets at the lodge gift shop i'm happy what would be a more just way of getting cheetoes to the masses visiting parks in your estimation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Ah my friend. Remember this is a democracy...there are other voters with money. Methinks the government could not do a better job at Yellowstone than Xanterra....and people have voted with their $$$ at Yellowstone...you may not like. However, you are being outvoted. And if people did not want it, they would speak up more...but they aren't...so methinks they (meaning US citizens) like it that way. Me making an assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Meanwhile the Rangers can't open the fucking gate at Longmire before 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 It is up to attentive citizens to keep an eye on these things, yet we also need to acknowledge that it is the pure volume of day trippers, those who never leave the paved paths, who subsidize the small fraction of people who use the infrastructure to recreate in those wild places. The moment you put infrastructure, these places stop being "wild". They simply exclude one another. And that is the crux of the issue. We build the roads to the very edge of the wild, and then we issue permits, because we are artificially overcrowding places to begin with. Wonder- how many visitors would there be, if you would have to hike into Yosemite Valley for 6 or 8 hours? How many people would try to get up Rainier, if there was no road going to Paradise? One just might imagine, how much money Curry Company made of Yosemite so far. BTW, these places don't have to be subsidized, they do no need infrastructure- what they need is to be left alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 if the guy who's getting bucks from slinging cheetos n' cappuchinos was in charge of the gate, it'd probably be opened earlier right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 if the guy who's getting bucks from slinging cheetos n' cappuchinos was in charge of the gate, it'd probably be opened earlier right? Red Herring. How about just open the fucking gate earlier when the road is clear and the weather is decent? Nobody is advocating privatizing the park. I'm saying we can't even get decent access with our taxpayer dollars. I've arrived at 8:15 am on a bluebird day, rangers are on duty in their cars at the gate... and refusing to open it. And copping an attitude when asked when they might open it. Later in the day, at Paradise, they then make their rounds to folks changing, taking off boots "you know the road closes in 30 min... you need to move now". Well if you opened the fucking road an hour earlier this would not be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric T Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) people have voted with their $$$ at Yellowstone And look what that begets. “Nationwide, the National Park Service is going out to the public through each park to raise entrance and campground fees because we haven’t done that for a long time,” Cannon said. "Entrance fees at Arches and Canyonlands National Parks have remained the same since 1996, but under a new proposal from the Southeast Utah Group of the National Park Service those fees could more than double." http://www.moabtimes.com/view/full_story/26398133/article-Public-invited-to-weigh-in-on-fee-hikes-for-Arches--Canyonlands?instance=secondary_three_leftcolumn Its a slippery slope because if money talks then parks will eventually become super inclusive clubs for the rich only. Those places are there to be preserved not made into a cross between KOA and Disneyland. Those lands belong to all Americans regardless of the price they can pay. A lottery system would be far more appropriate albeit not as profitable. Maybe the NPS does have a place at The Statue of Liberty but they have no place in the North Cascades. It would make a lot more sense if it were simply The North Cascades Wilderness Area. Let's climb something Stefan! Edited January 23, 2015 by Eric T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 It would make a lot more sense if it were simply The North Cascades Wilderness Area. Fuck that. Wilderness Area = lack of access. The FS probably loves Wilderness because they don't have to do shit. No roads to maintain, no services to provide. They just send a trail crew with a couple hand saws in every few years to maintain the one trail and call it good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 It would make a lot more sense if it were simply The North Cascades Wilderness Area. Fuck that. Wilderness Area = lack of access. The FS probably loves Wilderness because they don't have to do shit. No roads to maintain, no services to provide. They just send a trail crew with a couple hand saws in every few years to maintain the one trail and call it good. Not lack of access, but making access on need to access basis. We build roads to the edge of wilderness, and then we issue permits how many wankers we allow into the same wilderness per day. No need for permits for Northern Pickets. You can still hike in. WTF is wrong with you people? Not everything has to be convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 if the guy who's getting bucks from slinging cheetos n' cappuchinos was in charge of the gate, it'd probably be opened earlier right? Red Herring. How about just open the fucking gate earlier when the road is clear and the weather is decent? Nobody is advocating privatizing the park. I'm saying we can't even get decent access with our taxpayer dollars. I've arrived at 8:15 am on a bluebird day, rangers are on duty in their cars at the gate... and refusing to open it. And copping an attitude when asked when they might open it. Later in the day, at Paradise, they then make their rounds to folks changing, taking off boots "you know the road closes in 30 min... you need to move now". Well if you opened the fucking road an hour earlier this would not be an issue. i go to rainier so rarely i can't comment much on the issue - i do remember getting held up one mornign for a good long while as they did snow chain inspections and such. what is their state purpose for the closures? seems odd, given that you can drive up to timberline on hood at all hours and the terrain/conditions are pretty much the same. they don't do that shit in summer do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Golden Ears Prov Park in BC has a private contractor and they can't be bothered to open the fucking gate before 8 A in winter, and they close it whenever it snows rather than pay to ploew the road. In short private contractor does same or poorer job than public employee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 WTF is wrong with you people? Not everything has to be convenient. No but the problem is in the North Cascades nothing is convenient. Maybe in the summer the cascade pass area is, but that's why it has an overuse problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 You know what's convenient about NCNP? Not having a herd of two ton Tillies blocking your view. Hey Jabba, want to slack-jaw some scenery? Grab your bucket-a-frogs and head on down to Rainier. Plenty mini marts along the way. It's Pierce County. You can't swing a dead foaty at yer Ole Lady without hitting a jalapeno popper. Don't be insulted if some other pie wagon mistakes your sloughing ass-ulite for the Nisqually. It's nothing that a double order of Moons Over My Hammy can't make right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 i go to rainier so rarely i can't comment much on the issue - i do remember getting held up one mornign for a good long while as they did snow chain inspections and such. what is their state purpose for the closures? seems odd, given that you can drive up to timberline on hood at all hours and the terrain/conditions are pretty much the same. they don't do that shit in summer do they? there is no good reason for the rule (open at 9 am at the earliest), and they don't care to explain it sure, there are times when it has snowed at night, and maybe a plow needs to run up and down the road, and someone from the NPS needs to check that out first. Everyone gets that. But when it is light at 7 am, and there has been no new snow fall for days, and it is sunny, and the road is bare, and NPS employees are already on duty but refuse to open the gate until 9 because "that's just how it is" is BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 nice to see there's some things cc.retards can agree on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If I were to hazard a guess, the park service can only keep the road open when there's staff on hand to monitor the road and respond to problems/accidents. They may not have the budget for overtime hours or an extra shift. Just my guess. The consequences of decisions like that aren't what people who get up early and stay till after dark like or want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If I were to hazard a guess, the park service can only keep the road open when there's staff on hand to monitor the road and respond to problems/accidents. They may not have the budget for overtime hours or an extra shift. Just my guess. The consequences of decisions like that aren't what people who get up early and stay till after dark like or want. Like I said, they are clearly on duty, when they are standing on the far side of the locked gate at 8:15 am and refusing to open until 9. I don't buy the OT or accident response bit. What if I drive up Cascade River road and get into an accident? Who responds? Is someone "on duty". I think a certain amount of accident response - and expectation thereof - can reasonably be put on the shoulders of the person engaging in the recreational activity early in the morning, or later in the evening. I don't expect a nanny state to take care of me if I take those risks. Folks can and do climb Rainier in the winter. That's outside of "normal working hours". So again, you guess seems to fall short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Off hand a 20 mile dirt road that isn't listed on brochures (Cascade River Road) sees a lot less traffic than a paved and publicized road (Paradise Road). The park service used to keep the Paradise road open if snow wasn't in the forecast not too long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougd Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 in the North Cascades nothing is convenient. Thank goodness there are inconvenient places left like the NCNP. I just hope the bubble gum and bailing wire holding this old body together holds out a little longer so I can enjoy more of it, just the way it is... d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 the way it is of course though is a constantly moving thing, the n cascades of 2015 ain't the same as that even of 1985 - i for one really wish the golden age of the cascades that enabled beckey and his brethern to do so much awesome shit could be maintained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 the way it is of course though is a constantly moving thing, the n cascades of 2015 ain't the same as that even of 1985 - i for one really wish the golden age of the cascades that enabled beckey and his brethern to do so much awesome shit could be maintained Yeah, they should destroy Highway 20 and restore the slopes to their natural grade. Want to climb at WA pass? Do it like Beckey did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Only problem is HWY-20 is a State Highway and not part of the park. My dad used to approach climbs at the pass via Cedar Creek before the highway was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The only problem with wild areas is- they are wild. Not enough mcdonalds, 7/11 and convenience stores selling shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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