Ferguson in Context

[Pete_H]

Definitely agree with Jim and Ivan on both points. I also think the Treyvon Martin verdict was a travesty. But I think on that one the prosecutor fucked up by not charging manslaughter. The theory of the case being murder was a hard sell.

[genepires]

blaming the media coverage for the protesting of black people in ferguson is a slap to the face of the black people of ferguson.

 

Are you saying that if the media did not cover the story, then they would not have fallen prey to the negative covering of the story and gone out angry?

 

I think that a long history of slavery and then a long history of inequality and racial oppression may have had something (or everything) to do with their anger.

 

When white people have a long history of oppression (by who?) then we will have a reason to scream for the murder of John Williams. Even though we all should make a fuss about anyone who is murdered by police regardless of color.

[Jim]

Well, I think you're inferring quite a bit here - but I'll bite.

 

And I'll preface it that - yes, I'm just some while guy with limited experience with police harassment and zero experience as being targeted for my race. So -- if this were not the case maybe I would be looking at this differently.

 

I agree that there is a very long list of racial bias by cops and deadly consequences to especially young black males.

 

Never-the-less this was not one of those cases. I guess it's just part of our culture now but there was a full-throated media blitz of speculation, innuendo, unsubstantiated opinions by anyone and everyone, and few facts.

 

Until - oh, wait a minute. The legal process ran it course and the facts and evidence came out. It was not a murder nor even met the criteria for manslaughter. Seriously? Beat on a cop and try and take his gun - that just is not going to pass muster by any Grand Jury or even a trial jury.

 

I also should point out that John Williams was not white, but a person of color - he was First Nations member of the Ditidaht Tribe.

[Pete_H]

Every time the media addressed the Ferguson story it was "Michael Brown, the unarmed black man shot by a white cop."

 

While technically true, it definitely infers guilt and racism. So I agree with Jim there is media bias and sensationalism going on in Ferguson.

[genepires]

Frankly, the media beat this one to a frenzy.

 

I think some local incidents warranted much more attention - the killing of John Williams the wood carver by a SPD cop and the King County officer who paralyzed that innocent guy by slamming him into a brick wall. Why didn't anyone march for those folks? I guess if it made the CNN broadcast......

 

maybe I miss understood. It sounded like you were saying that the presence of media on a situation brought about the reaction of the ferguson locals.

 

[Jim]

Sorry if I'm not being clear. My point is that the media isn't now (maybe never was) subtle. Under the 24 hr news cycle there had to be someone else to interview, to speculate upon, or non-experts to analyze minutia.

 

I bring up the Williams example for comparison only because this one is in Seattle and familiar to me. How could a cop not be brought to trial after shooting a old, limping guy with a whittling penknife? I'm sure there are plenty of examples of cops shooting a black man in less threatening circumstances - a lot.

 

The Brown shooting is worth dissecting - just not the way it was played in a sensational manner by the media from day one.

[Pete_H]

The one positive about the situation is that it's opening a lot of dialogue on many different levels about the issues involved.

[Fairweather]

Not sure why these losers have to hijack legitimate protests. Malcontents with no real agenda or clue.

 

Edited December 2, 2014 by Fairweather

[glassgowkiss]

The one positive about the situation is that it's opening a lot of dialogue on many different levels about the issues involved.

None of this is going to mean shit, unless cops get prosecuted as everyone else, when guilty of misconduct or flat out crime. Police is acting with impunity, because they know that regardless of their conduct, they will never face criminal justice system. And don't give me that shit about a few bad apples, it's across the board and everywhere. Some places are just worst then others (like Ferguson).

[Buckshot]

If cops and the criminal justice system are "out to get" black people, it pales in comparison to how much black people are "out to get" themselves. Other black people kill way more blacks than the cops do. This occasion just gave everyone a break from having to consider the fact that their plight might just be caused by their own culture.

[genepires]

This occasion just gave everyone a break from having to consider the fact that their plight might just be caused by their own culture.

 

you may need to define their "plight". if it is how many young black men are killed daily, then you may have a point. But I think the bigger issue is discrimination and prejudice against all black people. Having a young innocent black man killed by a white police officer is just another example of this and the real reason for the anger.

 

Are you suggesting that most of the problems of the black culture are due to their own actions?

[Pete_H]

Having a young innocent black man killed by a white police officer is just another example of this and the real reason for the anger.

 

Regardless of what side of the issue you're on, it's laughable to call Michael Brown "innocent."

[tvashtarkatena]

Did you know Michael Brown personally? Or know anyone who knew him personally?

 

He was 18. Basically, the cop shot an unarmed kid.

 

Oh wait, he was Big and Black - so he must have been oneathose Superpredators.

 

Plus, he did pilfer those Cigarillos.

[Sam Furley]

cascadeclimbers.com home of deluded armchair politicians that take way too many drugs.

[glassgowkiss]

Having a young innocent black man killed by a white police officer is just another example of this and the real reason for the anger.

 

Regardless of what side of the issue you're on, it's laughable to call Michael Brown "innocent."

He was essentially killed for jaywalking- big fucking crime!

[glassgowkiss]

If cops and the criminal justice system are "out to get" black people, it pales in comparison to how much black people are "out to get" themselves. Other black people kill way more blacks than the cops do. This occasion just gave everyone a break from having to consider the fact that their plight might just be caused by their own culture.

I am sure you have spent a ton of time in a ghetto. You are speaking like a true expert. Newsflash- white kill whites as well. Wonder how the white america would react if a black cop shot an unarmed 18 y/o white guy?

[Pete_H]

Did you know Michael Brown personally? Or know anyone who knew him personally?

 

He was 18. Basically, the cop shot an unarmed kid.

 

Oh wait, he was Big and Black - so he must have been oneathose Superpredators.

 

Plus, he did pilfer those Cigarillos.

 

He attacked and assaulted a cop and tried to take his firearm because the cop told him not to jaywalk. There is that small detail. What part of it do you and Bob not understand?

 

One does not need to be "armed" in order to inflict bodily damage. Being physically large and strong is relevant in that one is able to inflict more bodily damage. It also makes Darren Wilson's story credible in that he had a legitimate fear of being physically overpowered. In contrast, his claim wouldn't hold water if he was attacked by a 85 year old woman.

 

That is how it is viewed in the eyes of the law and it also makes common fucking sense.

 

 

 

 

[CWC01]

If cops and the criminal justice system are "out to get" black people, it pales in comparison to how much black people are "out to get" themselves. Other black people kill way more blacks than the cops do. This occasion just gave everyone a break from having to consider the fact that their plight might just be caused by their own culture.

I am sure you have spent a ton of time in a ghetto. You are speaking like a true expert. Newsflash- white kill whites as well. Wonder how the white america would react if a black cop shot an unarmed 18 y/o white guy?

 

You don't have to wonder any longer. Black cop shoots unarmed white "kid".

[JayB]

Did you know Michael Brown personally? Or know anyone who knew him personally?

 

He was 18. Basically, the cop shot an unarmed kid.

 

Oh wait, he was Big and Black - so he must have been oneathose Superpredators.

 

Plus, he did pilfer those Cigarillos.

 

He attacked and assaulted a cop and tried to take his firearm because the cop told him not to jaywalk. There is that small detail. What part of it do you and Bob not understand?

 

One does not need to be "armed" in order to inflict bodily damage. Being physically large and strong is relevant in that one is able to inflict more bodily damage. It also makes Darren Wilson's story credible in that he had a legitimate fear of being physically overpowered. In contrast, his claim wouldn't hold water if he was attacked by a 85 year old woman.

 

That is how it is viewed in the eyes of the law and it also makes common fucking sense.

 

 

This isn't about the facts or the evidence, this is about the opportunity to validate and broadcast one's own righteousness contra white privilege, racism, or...whatever...by transmuting Michael Brown into Emmett Till and themselves into some kind of postmodern version of the heroic 1960s activists they grew up idealizing, sans any of the actual elements of the South in the 1960s that could make that sort of grandstanding even the slightest bit risky or controversial.

 

 

tl;dr...don't bother bringing up the evidence.

 

 

 

[CWC01]

Did you know Michael Brown personally? Or know anyone who knew him personally?

 

He was 18. Basically, the cop shot an unarmed kid.

 

Oh wait, he was Big and Black - so he must have been oneathose Superpredators.

 

Plus, he did pilfer those Cigarillos.

 

18 is an adult and Brown attacked a cop. Brown made a series of very poor decisions that led to his death. He alone is responsible for the outcome. The bar for a grand jury indictment is significantly lower than a guilty conviction yet the officer was still not indicted even with all of the social pressure.

 

 

[ivan]

i've lost the premise of the original poster - what is the proper context for fergouson? post-racial america or post-post racial america?

 

the boston massacre, rightly considered, probably wasn't spectacular evidence of england run amok, yet nonetheless it touched a nerve that was truly exposed and was thus an integral agent of all that followed after - likewise this poor sad dumb dead kid was likely in the wrong, but the cause of his banner-bearers is still not baseless

[Fairweather]

My gripe was with the military posture taken up by police in the aftermath of the shooting. Particularly that SAW-looking thang on top of the armored vehicle.

 

Based on the available facts, I don't see where Mr. Wilson could or should have done anything differently. That little 12-year old kid with the plastic gun who was shot by police in Ohio is a more worthy complaint.

[tvashtarkatena]

Adult? How many 18 year olds do you guys know?

 

That he attacked the cop is very much in doubt. Seems like it could just as easily have been the other way around according to many witnesses, but ya'll believe according to how your inner beings want it to play out. With innernutz certainty, of course.

 

He shot the kid at least six times. Seems a bit much to me, but that's me, I reckon.

 

Bleeding heart and all that.

[Fairweather]

Adult? How many 18 year olds do you guys know?

 

[tvashtarkatena]

You know all those 18 year olds?

 

Cuz that looks like a pic pulled from the web.