Ferguson in Context

[Pete_H]

At any rate, I think all high school history teachers should have to wear body cameras. Then we'll see what really goes on at those "staff meetings."

[Fairweather]

Oh jesus. Again? Inevitably it's about ME.

 

Now now, Jim, the tvashtar mini me me me thread manifesto is a long-standing tradition here. Rumor has it he cries as he writes.

 

As for association, speech, petition protections, well, if only he were as enthusiastic about the rest. Clearly, he thinks it's a buffet.

 

 

[ivan]

i'd prefer the body camera - at least wouldn't have to see what i look like - these poor kids...

 

i'm also a fan of teachers carryign weapons - make mine a shao-lin spade

[Pete_H]

Everyone's aware of this horrific state of affairs - but where to begin.

 

Well, making fewer things illegal is a great start.

 

 

Shit, If we just made nothing illegal we wouldn't even have any criminals at all. We wouldn't need cops so we wouldn't have any civil rights abuses and our human rights record would be motherfucking bitchin'.

[ivan]

as an american i'm frankly confused on how to solve this problem - what can i blow up to make this all better?

[Jim]

as an american i'm frankly confused on how to solve this problem - what can i blow up to make this all better?

 

No, if in America you will either start a blog, continuously post inane comments on the internets, or start a reality show. Better yet - all three.

[ivan]

i like think my comments are more cheeky than inane - it might just be a potatoe/potatoe/tomato/tomato thing though - wow, that analogy just dont' work in print

 

silliness aside, ending the war on drugs would be a good step forward in forestalling the impression that the government and the police are the enemy of black communities - prostitution's another vice that probably could get normalized as well.

[tvashtarkatena]

Make fewer things illegal (marijuana, obviously), decriminalize illicit drugs in general, reduce most non-violent offenses from felonies to misdemeanors (CA just did this against the wishes of their strong prison guard lobby), divert rather than convict petty drug offenders, end debtor's prison (putting people back in the slammer for missing LFO payments) and reduce LFOs in general (also, provide a financial means test for payment - it's ridiculous to expect a homeless person to keep up), improve treatment for the mentally ill and drug addicted, eliminate 3 strikes and mandatory sentencing laws - use judicial discretion instead, make reporting racial statistics for each jurisdiction (county level) to the DOJ mandatory (arrest, conviction rates, etc) and have the DOJ investigate outliers, enable non-violent convicts who've served their time the ability to seal their records so they can actually get a job and rejoin society...

 

...to name a few.

[tvashtarkatena]

I haven't yet touched upon police accountability nor their demilitarization. Ending the drug war would at least end most SWAT activity.

 

DOJ Report on the SPD

 

The Consent Decree under which the SPD must now operate

[glassgowkiss]

while I don't think officer wilson did anything wrong or illegal, the heavy handed manner in which the Ferguson PD handled things in the aftermath of the shooting should be attributed not to "militarization," but to ineptitude and underlying racial issues that have been going on since the 19th century.

Shooting an unarmed man is legal and moral? wtf? The guy is an idiot, with total lack of judgment. So he is trying to apprehend a suspect in a petty theft, by himself in a totally black area, by grabbing him from the truck? Do you think after having his finger blown off by a bullet Michael Brown was thinking logically? This idiot is nothing but a thug with a badge.

[glassgowkiss]

Looks like the officer was the aggressor in the exchange:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/11/26/366827836/ferguson-documents-what-michael-browns-friend-saw

Like I said, a thug with a badge. One way to cure such behavior is to force the cops to wear a camera at all times.

 

[Pete_H]

while I don't think officer wilson did anything wrong or illegal, the heavy handed manner in which the Ferguson PD handled things in the aftermath of the shooting should be attributed not to "militarization," but to ineptitude and underlying racial issues that have been going on since the 19th century.

Shooting an unarmed man is legal and moral? wtf? The guy is an idiot, with total lack of judgment. So he is trying to apprehend a suspect in a petty theft, by himself in a totally black area, by grabbing him from the truck? Do you think after having his finger blown off by a bullet Michael Brown was thinking logically? This idiot is nothing but a thug with a badge.

 

Not surprisingly, you don't have a firm grasp of the facts. Officer wilson did not know Michael Brown had just committed a theft when he first contacted him.

 

Brown then proceeded to attack officer wilson and attempt to take his firearm. Brown retreated after his hand was shot, but it was Wilson's duty (as a cop) to try and stop him.

 

Wilson got out of the car, chased Brown for about 20 yards, and told him to stop. All physical evidence and most eye witness testimony shows that Brown then proceeded to run at Officer Wilson at close distance when wilson shot.

 

What was Wilson supposed to do? Let Brown attack him again and most likely be killed with his own firearm? Get back in his car and let the next guy deal with it? Wilson is a cop, not a citizen, he isn't supposed to retreat in the face of an attacker or threat to public safety.

[Pete_H]

By no means will I naively claim police brutality and unjustified shootings don't occur. That's just clearly not what the case was in Ferguson.

[glassgowkiss]

Pete, some of the physical evidence confirmed his story, some did not. A lot of witness testimony was contradicting his statements. It all should be sorted out during a trial. And this is the crux- they did an acquittal without a trial. No cross examination, no challenges to physical evidence or test results.

Somehow you don't hear about black cops shooting unarmed white teens, but white cop shooting black teens (or in latest case in Cleveland a 12 year old with a toy gun on a playground!) seems like a monthly occurrence.

And Pete- please define a close distance. Gun residue is traceable to 5ft range. Even the DA confirmed only one shot stuck Brown from within this distance. One bullet struck top of the head- so the cop fired when the guy was at least on his knees or on the ground. And if this is not excessive force, I do not what is then. And till such cases start going to trial, events like this will be common and will keep repeating themselves. Cops will continue to act with impunity, as they are given a free range to do whatever they wish.

[Pete_H]

You make a good point that the evidence should have been heard at trial. However the rule of law and legal process ran its course. We don't have the grand jury process in Washington but they do in Missouri. Ten independent jurors reviewed all the evidence and determined it didn't even amount to enough probable cause to have a trial.

 

[num1mc]

We don't have the grand jury process in Washington.......

 

?

http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.27.030

[ivan]

from wikipedia:

While all states currently have provisions for grand juries,[17] today approximately half of the states employ them[18] and twenty-two require their use, to varying extents.

 

washington state is not listed among the 22

[Pete_H]

We don't have the grand jury process in Washington.......

 

?

http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=10.27.030

 

Washington doesn't typically employ grand juries would have been a more accurate statement.

[glassgowkiss]

However the rule of law and legal process ran its course.

Well, then the law and the process is flawed or basically fucked. How this evidence was presented depended on prosecution, and from an early onset after the shooting people were pointing out too cozy relation between the prosecutor and cops. I would say, that when it comes down to investigating or prosecuting police, DA has vast conflict of interest, and only a special prosecutor nominated from outside of the ranks can even attempt any impartiality. The fact is cops NEVER get prosecuted for conduct while on job. Remember the cop pepper spraying people during a sitdown protest in California? If an ordinary person sprayed another with pepper spray, they would be most likely charged with an assault. So why wasn't he prosecuted? This "land of free" is turning in to a "land of heavy police hand" very fast. Time to change their motto from "protect and serve" to "harass and intimidate (with occasional killing for a change)", as the later would describe current situation far more accurately.

[Pete_H]

So the only evidence you have against Darren Wilson is that other cops in other incidents have fucked up?

 

You should look at the facts at hand not at what happened in Cleveland or California.

[glassgowkiss]

So the only evidence you have against Darren Wilson is that other cops in other incidents have fucked up?

 

You should look at the facts at hand not at what happened in Cleveland or California.

your answer pretty much explains why people HATE lawyers. No, this is not the case with Darren Wilson shooting. Some of the story is simply not confirmed by the physical evidence. The fact that one of the bullets stuck the top of the head and exited by the jaw, clearly points out Brown was shot while already on the ground.

 

[Pete_H]

So the only evidence you have against Darren Wilson is that other cops in other incidents have fucked up?

 

You should look at the facts at hand not at what happened in Cleveland or California.

The fact that one of the bullets stuck the top of the head and exited by the jaw, clearly points out Brown was shot while already on the ground.

 

So you're an expert in bullet trajectory now? You sure there is no chance a bullet could have ricocheted of the inside of the skull?

 

Even if that were the case, as wilson testified, wilson kept shooting because Brown kept coming at him. He wasn't sure if he was even hitting him. Don't forget Michael Brown was like 6'4" 250.

 

Not sure what that has to do with whether wilson murdered Brown anyway. Either he was justified in shooting in the first place or he wasn't. How many times he shot seems pretty immaterial to me.

 

Lots of gunshots are clearly distasteful to people. The fact that a thug and criminal like Michael Brown, who arguably tried to murder a cop, has become a martyr is rather distasteful as well.

[Pete_H]

Like I said, I get that people would like to see this at least go to trial. But I think the grand jurors realized that it's pretty extreme to put a good cop on trial for murder when the majority of evidence points to the fact that he was executing his duty to the best of his training and experience under difficult circumstances and acting in self-defense.

[ivan]

nitpicking mayhap, but this grand jury had options to charge the guy not w/ murder but manslaughter

 

the problem as i see it is that both sides can be right at the same time - this particuliar cop can be a good guy doing a good job while simultaneously the nation's law enforcement apparatus can be racist

[Jim]

True - but given the high threshold even for manslaughter it this situation it would have went nowhere. Frankly, the media beat this one to a frenzy.

 

I think some local incidents warranted much more attention - the killing of John Williams the wood carver by a SPD cop and the King County officer who paralyzed that innocent guy by slamming him into a brick wall. Why didn't anyone march for those folks? I guess if it made the CNN broadcast......