I was not prepared...

[markwebster]

Ah we are back to this. The gangbanger situation. Whether it is one leader, with 6 non leading top ropers, or an organized group tying up an entire cliff for top roping. It's basically the gym mentality coming outdoors.

 

I hate starting lines with "Used to be..." or "Back when I..."

 

What used to be doesn't matter anymore. These people are here, and they aren't going away.

 

There are a couple of solutions:

 

Always carry a trad rack. Many times I've been at Smith where all the bolt lines are tied up. But right next to the bolt lines is an old trad line...and no one is on it. Have you ever done Old Testament? Or both pitches of Lycopodophyta? Fridays Jinx? Pack animal? Or routes that can't easily be TR'd like Tammy Bakkers face? How about Bookworm? No one ever does bookworm (except me), and it is right next to Bunny face.

 

The next time you mentor a new climber, teach them to always lead, never, ever top rope. Have them follow you up a few easy cracks, pulling gear, and examining placements.

 

Then make them lead. This means you will have to search out the really easy 3rd and 4th class cracks, sometimes even short boulders with cracks. Stuff that is so easy they could free solo it. Have them put in their own gear.

 

Follow them up and critique the placements. Teach them the value of being a leader from day one.

 

The Icicle canyon in Leavenworth is a great place for that. It's how I learned to climb, and how I taught my family, and many friends. If I can't lead it, I won't climb it until I can lead it. I don't even like following routes I can't lead, but I will do it occasionally for a good partner.

 

If all you are doing is following or top roping, it's a sign you have the wrong partner.

 

I can't stop the top ropers anymore than I can hold back a river. But I can choose not to participate. And anyone I teach to climb learns to lead from day one. If it's too hard, skip the top rope, find something you *can* lead. You will be a more competent climber for it.

 

And don't be afraid to lead trad routes that are too hard. Hang dogging your way up a route is a tried and true technique for learning the moves, refining your gear placements, and generally wasting huge amounts of time. You will anger people waiting in line, but they should have gotten up earlier. Next time you do it you will know the moves, and it might go clean.

[Alex]

I love some people think just because their group is smaller or more experienced, they somehow have dibs or rights, or a place to complain. Or that that some arbitrary group size is "too big". 6? 20? Or that guided groups guided by a "pro" somehow have some kind of entitlement over guided groups guided by "amateurs". Give me a freakin' break. This is Smith Rock, and there are precious few places to climb in Oregon let alone moderate practice routes at Smith where someone could actually learn. But not only that, this happens every day at any large well known crag: Gunks on a weekend anyone? You're only save there is to keep walkin'. Red Rocks Gallery? Wait in line. JTree? Wait in line or man up and lead the scary shit.

 

I would like to see these newbie climbers have a great, positive experience at Smith, facilitated by safe, experienced climbers - both the climbers leading the group and the climbers around them who were encouraging them - than not...

[tvashtarkatena]

As far as road side cragging goes:

 

1) First come, first serve.

 

2) For first comers - if you do not plan to immediately and continually climb on top ropes, please remove them out of consideration for other parties, even those that have yet to arrive or have not yet asked you to do so.

 

3) For slow first comers - consider a request to pass by faster parties as your schedule, practicality and safety allows.

 

4) For the faster party: please, actually be fast enough to warrant another party granting your request to pass.

 

5) For people who object to large parties: We've all been there, but if the area's rules don't prohibit it, that large party has every bit as much right to be there as you do.

[Pete_H]

Easy, popular climbs at popular climbing crags will be gangbanged on weekends with good weather. That's reality, so instead of whining I'd figure out how to avoid the conflict in the first place.

[ivan]

the bouldering playset by the bivy bathroom is ALWAYS open

[jeb013]

I was talking with a fishing buddy of mine, and was basically told that you need to make sure you get on the water before the boat ramp opens. Basically saying you were fuckin' late dude get over it. I have gotten over it, have made the necessary adjustments to how I schedule shit and look forward to the next opportunity to get out and get some climbing in.

 

Admittedly I overreacted, thankfully no on else on this site has ever done the same thing

 

jeb

Edited October 31, 2013 by jeb013

[mtep]

Faster, more experienced parties definitely have a place to complain if other parties lack self-awareness and consideration! Why wouldn't they? Is that what was happing here? Maybe, maybe not. Tough to say on the internet.

 

As far as guided parties go, my point wasn't that certified ('pro') guides have more entitlement over other groups. My point was that those looking for instruction and risk management will get more bang for their buck (a better product) if they hire someone who is certified and, as a result, more likely to know what they're doing. It boggles my mind a little bit to think that someone would pay hundreds of dollars to be taught in a high-ratio environment by someone who's skill set is a complete unknown to them, (the consumer) when they could pay the same amount for a custom, one on one class with a certified professional. (granted it would be a little less class time-quality>quantity)

 

And because this happens at other popular crags that makes it okay? You've got to be kidding. You're right that this is a predictable phenomenon, but it's not a great practice. Justifying poor practices by citing other examples of them is far from a compelling argument.

 

I completely agree that the more supportive of new climbers and the more conscientious of our impacts on others while climbing we can be, the better.

[Alan Trick]

I'm going to be visiting Smith Rock in a week for the first time. I'm fine with getting up early, especially for multipitch routes. Can anyone tell me what time tends to be 'early' and what time tends to be 'late' there?

[ivan]

dark to dark

[KirkW]

I'm going to be visiting Smith Rock in a week for the first time. I'm fine with getting up early, especially for multipitch routes. Can anyone tell me what time tends to be 'early' and what time tends to be 'late' there?

 

Monday through Friday = early

 

Saturday and Sunday = late

 

And...what Ivan said.

 

Or you could just climb 2 star routes and never have to wait in line

 

[OlympicMtnBoy]

If you really want to get up one of the super popular routes and your day is going to be totally blown if you don't, being at the base at sunrise is the ticket of course. Leaving the parking lot at sunrise might not be too bad. If you get up at sunrise (7ish?) and get to the lot after 8 and dink around and leave at 9, you will have plenty of friends.

 

If it's a route that is high on my tick list, I've never regretted getting there early, plenty of times I've regretted getting somewhere an hour (or 10 minutes) too late.

 

Nothing like that satisfaction of once hiking up to Snow Creek wall in the pre-dawn hours with my then girlfriend with her complaining about how early it was for a 1/2 day route. All the way up to the base, she couldn't see any headlamps so thought we were still too early. Halfway up the first lead two parties totaling seven climbers popped out of the bushes at the base.

 

YMMV, don't blame me.

[luvshaker]

Totally true KW. So many of my best memories at smud rock include two star routes. I even made a tic list called the "2 star Trad select". Pigeon crap is actually pretty grippy. And as long as that flake didn't pull off on the last guy it SHOULD hold for you. I don't think I have ever gone there, even in the off season, and expected to get on any route that is 3 or more stars. Now 0 and 1 star routes....good luck with that.

[Rad]

If things get crowded you can always yard up bolts on the monkey and have a bonfire in the cave. It doesn't count unless you post a TR with videos.