Rainier fee increase

[Pat]

After all the whining about the fee increase I've read here, I expected more of you to turn out at the

hearing last night. Less than 20 folks showed up. The message came across load and clear, you don't

really care if the fees go up.

[allthumbs]

I know I don't care. The park can probably use the money. Life goes on.

[vegetablebelay]

I meant to be there but I didn't go. Did you raise your voice and shake your fist for me?

[Highlander]

Either don't pay the fee and climb it anyway or climb somewhere else.

[Necronomicon]

Don't pay the fee.

[mattp]

I say you should go ahead and pay the fee, but make sure the person taking your fee has to listen to at least a short diatribe about how such fees are unfair.

 

Why do I suggest paying these fees while I still don't buy a NW Forest Pass? I guess it is because I believe the climbing program at Mount Rainier is well run and that, while the fees are unfair, I don't think playing hide and seek with the rangers is the answer. More participation in public meetings might help, and letters to the Superintendent and perhaps to our Senators, but I think the politics of the situation are driven at least in part by the fact that the general public seems to have come to accept the idea that user fees place the expense on those who use the services being funded -- even though this ignores the fact that the park service subsidizes all the vendor operations and the maintenance of roadways and that rediculous Henry M. Jackson visitor center, so only a very small segment of users are actually being asked to pay for services. Until the politics of the situation change, I don't think the fees are going to go away and playing hide and seek with the rangers is, in my opinion, likely to generate more problems than it will solve.

[texplorer]

When the ranger stops you to ask if you payed your fee just tell him a long story about how you read this post on this website posted by the guy named Dru but that he really didn't write it and that this other canadian bad ass ice climber guy wrote it and that it says climbing is a religion and so the government shouldn't be able to charge a few bucks to practice your religion and that you'll take it to the supreme court or if that doesn't work you'll take it to the supremer court and that you think that is probably what happened along time ago and that is why these cone-shaped mountains up here blow their tops every now and then.

 

[Highlander]

Hide a seek with the rangers can be fun. I won't forget the Caveman running down the Snow Creek Trail at full blast, to make sure the Tool was avoided. Greg W thought he was having military flashbacks.

If your going to do the standard routes and use the facilities, go ahead a pay your fee. I am not going to pay to climb the Willis Wall.

Edited December 18, 2002 by Highlander

[texplorer]

Or dispose of the ranger's body in one of them big crevasses.

Edited December 18, 2002 by texplorer

[iain]

yeah...so what do the rainier climbing rangers here think of that one?

[texplorer]

Ohhh, I lost a star cause of that one.

[Necronomicon]

What do I need to do to get some more stars? Who's balls do I lick?

[texplorer]

Merry Christmas Necro-hope you like the gift of stars.

 

What I want to know is when I won't be a bumblygumby anymore. I miss my old zen spraymaster status.

[allthumbs]

you can buy $$ whatever status you want

[ivan]

right on tex...death, much like beer, is the solution to all of life's little problems

 

i find screaming at rangers in alternating pygmy versions of russian, german and portuguese also to be, while not effective, damn enjoyable

 

hey, since there's some rangers out there, what's your response to a climber sans permit at 14K? i encountered one on top of shasta a few years ago...i'd actually had bought a pass, but left it at 10K...i was feeling so ill at the time i couldn't have given a shit if christ himself had demanded it...was he prepared to hold me hand the whole way down the hill (the ranger that it, not our dear lord in heaven who's naturally hydrophobic feet provide him an exceptional edge on the big glaciers )?

[graupel]

If you don't send in a letter or attend these meetings, it is the functional equivalent of shouting to them to charge anything they want.

 

I think the important thing is to think of the legacy this leaves. At some point, the officials in charge may change, and their replacements may have a more hardcore attitude at enforcement. Where will your strategy of planning to not pay have gotten you then?

 

Please take the time to send the message that the climbing community doesn't support the fees by writing in. Otherwise, you are going to see the mountain orienting their policies toward those neophytes that want to be spoon-fed with their hands held all the way and charged up the kazoo because the climb is something they are only interested in doing once in their life.

 

mora_climbing_fees@nps.gov

 

For background info, see http://www.nps.gov/mora/climb/costrecovery.htm

 

 

[ryland_moore]

I just don't understand it. Fees increase, it is called inflation. This is not some governmental ploy to squeeze out every climber's last dollar or try and get climbers to give in, it is to help a well-run and much needed team of solid individuals (rangers) and support you when you are on the mountain. You shit at Muir and Sherman don't you. You wanna be the one to remove it? Like you should be anyway! Then quit whining. It is bad karma. Wouldn't want to be one whining over a few dollars then have an accident, cause the mountain gods didn't think you were respectful or worthy enough to be there. If you don't want to pay the fee, dont. If you feel like you want to, do.

 

Our society is like this with everything. I choose not to buy a seasonal NWForest Pass, but pay for Rainier. Gas is the same issue. We expect gas to never go up in price, yet in reality if gas prices stayed true with inflation, we would be paying around $6.00/gallon. Sorry for rambling. Support the Rangers, they do serve a purpose.

[CascadeClimber]

This simply isn't the black-and-white issue that you make it.

 

Support which rangers? Climbing or backcountry? Are any of them requesting additional funding?

 

And the rate of inflation is an average. That means some prices increase at a faster rate and some at a slower rate. Computing power is less expensive now that ten years ago. Gas production is more efficient. Big Oil is not losing money on gasoline sales in this country. MORA went almost 100 years charging $5 to enter and nothing to climb. What has changed so radically in the last ten?

 

The only thing that seems to get consistently bigger and more expensive is our bloated goverment. I'd really like to be protected from myself a little less. Clickit or Ticket? We spent how much of our declining state tax revenue in this state on that ridiculous program??

 

Ugh.

[j_b]

the report just does not do a good job of partitioning guided versus private parties over time. We are said guided climbing will increase but will it increase faster than the rest? Without guided parties, climbing would be at ~1980 levels. Guided parties represent 30% of all parties today and the immense majority of it where impact is the greatest. Should we assume that guided climbing could increase unlimitedly and the general climbing public should bear equally the cost of impact without discussion of how much guided services put back into the mountain or whether a cap should be put on it to sustain a public resource? Let's not forget the general public is already paying for the use of public land (the question of whether it's adequate should be addressed to congress).

[Cpt.Caveman]

No military flashbacks that day. But when and if you have to deal with Larry Inthout - aka the Tool then be prepared for a lot of bullshit and harrassment unless you have your pass (who needs a permit anyways in there). If the guy was respectable and had some real educative input or some reason why it is so bad not to have a permit then I would think twice. I've never done the permit bullshit back there. However I have paid for climbing permits in the Canadian rockies and the Rainier parks because I do beleive some of the cost is used for climbers. But that does not mean I agree with the cost or the increase in fee. Who would buy a permit to climb the willis wall? Is it insurance for the casket or what? Not like someone is going to haul your dookie out or rescue you on some routes. It's a tax.

[Highlander]

That was my point.

[Cpt.Caveman]

BTW some of those rangers up there are cool. Let's not blacklist them all

[Cpt.Caveman]

Oh and if anyone from the Leavenworth Ranger District wants to read this - Larry Inthout and those like him are nothing more than overglorified parking\meter maids. They don't know the first thing about backcountry use and shit. Guy never steps out of his truck but to harrass climber types.

[allthumbs]

Small Penis Syndrome

[freeclimb9]

It's a tax.

And one levied without representation. Since Congress got out of the decision making process by approving and continuing the Fee Demo Program, with regard to fees at National Parks, Monuments, and Forest, there is no regulatory control such as a popular vote. The bureaucratic managers make fee increase decisions. Can't vote those guys out of office. I've written my Representatives and Senators, and all I've gotten back is that the Fee Demo Programs makes money, so it stays. BOHICA, as they say. I choose non-compliance. Homey don't dance for the man (ranger, in this case).