wearing gloves while belaying

[AlpineK]

 

I've never worn gloves at a cragging area. I've caught falls and never had a rope burn. I can't think of anyone I know that's burned their hands.

 

Some of the newer work gloves with rubberized palms do increase your grip strength. So if your down with wearing gloves it will only cost you $7, or you could buy some special Black Diamond gloves designed specifically for rock climbers for $35.99

Edited December 18, 2002 by AlpineK

[iain]

 

Well-in Kurt!

[Dru]

Belay gloves are one of the three warning signs (could also be huge tape gloves at sport crag) , the other two are: rack of gear all color coordinated and all draws same length and same manufacturer; and, loud talking mustached mullet guy with pudgy girlfriend, with dude loudly giving false beta to everyone in view& name dropping ("Alan Watts told me at the 3rd bolt you should use your left pinky in the pocket") an then yelling at his belay bunny for hosing him on every clip as he seiges a 5.9 sport route.

[allthumbs]

hahaha, Dru you can paint the same picture in the boating industry. just replace gri gri with gold chains, rolex, trophy wives, etc...

[Ben]

I agree that using an ATC and paying attention while belaying, one should never suffer a rope burn even holding a big whipper.

 

This is simply wrong. It's a common misconception that an ATC (or other belay devices) will never slip. The amount of weight that can be held by an ATC is a function of how hard you're gripping the rope (and other things, like rope thickness)I seem to remember an ATC will start slipping at around 600 pounds, under normal conditions. Now imagine a high fall factor fall. Person falls, rope slips through the belay device, you grip harder, you get a rope burn. This has happened to me while catching an > 1 fall factor. Talk about 60 foot whippers isn't helpful, because lots of "whippers" don't actually generate very high forces...

 

(That said, I still don't wear special belay/rappel gloves...)

 

[johnny_destiny]

keep it simple for us country hicks with no fork in the family tree

[johnny_destiny]

lambskin??? Isn't that what you roll on your dick before going on the tuna ride?

[johnny_destiny]

Dru, you are makin' fun of Uncle Wayly Bob, shit ya can't be doin' that to my relatives.

[texplorer]

Ben,

Rope slippage is normal and allows for a softer fall taking place over a longer period of time decreasing forces on the system. Though the rope usually slips in most falls it is seldom more than a few inches and not usually enough to result in burns.

 

 

[Bob_Clarke]

- Allison my 2 cents. It would be irresponsible for me not to wear leather gloves during rappelling or belaying. I have more control, no slippage (wtf is that term?) and beter protection from scraping my hands.

[klenke]

Well, I have experienced rope burn, as I said. Although it has only happened once to me. In my case, the follower was out of sight and when he fell on slabby ground I was busy dealing with the lay of the paid-in rope with my non-brake hand (by reaching across to the braking side as we have all had to do). Even though I had my brake-hand on the rope, it was not firmly on the rope. My sorting concentration may have led to an unintentional reduction of brake pressure. Can't say for sure. In the end, only about 1 foot of rope went through my palm but it was enough to give me rope burn. The weather was nice and the rope was new, as I recall; so the rope had a greater amount of roughness to it. Dirt/mud had not yet smoothed its sheath.

[Thinker]

But....but.....but......none of the rock climbers in those cool magazine photos EVER have gloves on....

Edited December 18, 2002 by Thinker

[genepires]

A lot of comments to the affect that few people have experienced rope burn, except for the previous post. People have held 60 footers. How many people have held a fall factor 1 or more? Not me. Pluggin in the numbers in the petzl fall simulator shows that there are lots of slippage in fall factor 1 or more when held with a slot device. Catching a BIG fall (fall factor 1) with all this slippage would be very difficult. If the slippage burns the hand, who can say they would not let go? Gloves sure would mitigate this hazard.

 

If you are looking at climbs with big fall poteintail, using gloves while belaying would be a good idea. For this situation, you might want to anchor the belayer down as well.

 

That said, I have never used belay gloves while craggin (except for red rocks with all the prickly desert shwacking) but might consider getting a cheap pair.

[catbirdseat]

Whether one suffered rope burns or not would be dependent on belay technique. By keeping the brake hand back and close to the hip, greater friction can be applied by the device. Also your hand has a lot farther to go before it fetches up against the belay device. Slippage of rope through the hand only occurs when the hand holding the rope runs into the device and stops.

[klenke]

"Slippage of rope through the hand only occurs when the hand holding the rope runs into the device and stops."

 

This is not entirely true. In my rope burn incident, my brake hand never abutted the belay device. Since my grip was relaxed and a sturdy brake was not being applied (I had my hand more in front of me than beside me thus less bend of the rope over the edge of the ATC), when the follower weighted the rope, it began to slide through both my ATC and my brake-hand simultaneously. The rope burn occurred in the fraction of a second when I began to apply pressure to the rope. It was kind of like those times when you grab for a rope-tow rope and it slides for a second before you gain a no-slip grip. After pressure was applied, then my hand may have moved down to the ATC. I don't remember.

 

 

[catbirdseat]

Rope burns may in fact be more likely when belaying a follower than when belaying a leader. In the former case, one has to bring IN rope. Even though the force of a follower fall is less, if it happens while the brake hand is forward... well you know the result. In belaying a leader this could happen in the case where the leader clips high and rope must come in as he approaches the piece.

[allison]

I am putting my double ultra flame suit on.

 

What I am seeing here as the cause of rope burns on hands is careless belay technique. If my perception is correct, a gri gri is going to do more to save lives and skin than gloves. I really can't see any reason to wear gloves besides keeping your hands clean and warm. 'Course the problem with a gri gri is that is has to be threaded properly....

 

Please be careful out there.

[allthumbs]

holy schmokes girl, wouldn't want to learn to thread something properly

[slothrop]

Heh? The grigri only provides a static belay, which puts more force on pro/anchors (there's gotta be a thread about that somewhere). Better to take a little skin off your hand with an ATC belay than pull the leader's marginal pro and send him bouncing off toward the ground. If you're worried about hard falls, just wear a cheap leather army glove shell or some gardening gloves, ten bucks max.

 

I'd only use a grigri for sport cragging, if someone happened to give me one.

[SEF]

Well, I know of more accidents that have occured due to improper use of the Gri Gri than of burned hands or failed belays due to lack of gloves while belaying. That said, I think gloves (or just one glove on the belay hand) are a prudent when belaying though I rarely use them myself. I do often use a glove on my brake hand while rapping because I can go much faster, especially so if the route has a lot of raps and skinny ropes are in use.

[backcountrydog]

ya 60 footers arent the best example for the biggest slam on the belayer. i should have put "falls UP TO a 60 ftr INCLUDING enough factor one falls to know that my experience base includes a bit of everything". All that said...even when i did use a figger 8 (in stitch mode) the rope never slipped enough to burn me or anyone that was paying attention while belaying me. if your using the 8 in rap mode to belay, well, theres your lesson.

in my experience, MOST climbers dont wear gloves cause MOST climbers dont get the hands burned catching falls. sounds like a nasty burn if u do, and if u werent paying attention and the rope slips, having gloves would save u a burn; although maybe prolonging the lesson to PAY ATTENTION lest u want burned hands and a seriously bumming (or worse) climbing partner

 

[klenke]

What Steve said regarding being able to rap faster when you're wearing a glove is a good point. I never really thought about it, but that's got to be true. Although, I'm trying to remember if I've ever not worn a glove rappeling. Can't draw a conclusion without knowing what it's like both ways.

 

Quote from Freedom of the Hills (6th Edition, page 137):

"The question of whether to wear gloves when using a belay device has no easy answer. As noted earlier, your gripping ability is greater bare-handed than with most gloves. With the use of any standard belay device, a bare-handed belayer who is near average in gripping ability can easily stop the routine leader and follower falls that are common in rock-climbing areas. Furthermore, gloves can make your hands damp and soft, undesirable when it's your turn to climb.

"On the other side, you may be required at any time to hold an extreme fall, the force of which can pull the rope through your hand. Heat buildup is quick; the sliding rope can burn your bare hand, causing you to drop the rope. Of course, gloves may be necessary to keep your hands warm in cold weather."

[iain]

Steve I like your response that's exactly how I feel about it. Gloves might work out well, but I generally don't use them for one reason or another. I sometimes have the habit of putting a finger between the rappel lines as they enter my device to work out kinks when I'm the last one down to make the rope pull easier, and there I find myself burning the insides of my fingers at times. Gloves would be nice there, but again, I generally don't use them. Probably best to not get in the habit of ripping down on the rappel either. Surprised there's been this much conversation on the topic! At least it's not global warming.

[allison]

If your hands are getting warm while rapping, it's because you are burning the sheath of the rope.

[iain]

what? I'm just running the rope through my fingers before it goes into the atc or reverso. I'm not melting anything on the rope. It just abrades my fingers. ATCs get hot on rappels but they aren't burning through the mantle. Though there was a couple caving fatalities where a bit-too-fast rappel ended up melting the mantle and rocketed the guy down to the bottom of a huge drop. They found him with massive trauma and a huge pool of melted nylon. These were on multiple-hundreds of feet rappels though.