The 5.10 Barrier

[kevinoregon]

While I have been reading through all of these postings, it occurred to me that many of you might be suffering from the same affliction that I suffered from many moons ago.

 

The 5.10 Barrier.

 

I was stuck in this invisible barrier for years. I could do 10s of all kinds: cracks, face, and friction, but I could not get past the barrier to move on to 11s and 12s. Even when I looked at them, I could not conceive the moves necessary to put it all together.

 

So, now I have 2 questions. Does this barrier really exist in the minds of climbers? If it does, how do we consistently get past it?

 

For me, the answer to the first question is YES. I think I was stuck in this barrier for about 4 or 5 years. It was really frustrating. In July of 89 this all changed, everything finally clicked and I was on my way. It was at the first International Climbing Competition held at Snowbird Resort in Utah. Great climbers from all over the world showed up. Notable climbers included Hans Florine, Tony Yaniro, Robyn Erbesfield and Lynn Hill just to name a few.

 

Watching these world class climbers showed me techniques I had not though possible. I took these newly learned techniques to the rock and instantly moved on to harder climbing.

 

Let’s hear your answers to these 2 questions.

 

[Greg_W]

Interesting topic Kevin. I have wondered what it takes to move into that next level; I am still trying to break into double-digit leads myself. Here's another question: At what point can you no longer compensate for lack-of-technique with muscle? Maybe that isn't a set line for everyone.

[iain]

great topic Kevin!

[Geek_the_Greek]

At what point can you no longer compensate for lack-of-technique with muscle?

I was originally told that that level was somewhere in the low .10s, but of course it depends on the climb. Now I'd say that there are some people out there climbing 5.11 who do it mostly through muscle. Back when he was still the 15 year-old boy wonder, Chris Sharma was always criticized for have useless footwork, but he managed to claw his way up all sorts of hard .13s with a lot of raw power and will. Technique makes it feel much better, safer, more solid, and more fun, I think.

I had that "5.10 ceiling" thing going for a few years. Then I had a few bouts of climbing more regularly, and broke into some sport 11s, eventually up to .11c or so. Then I had some bouts of climbing less and am back in the 10s! There's no secret. If you're motivated enough to make time for climbing regularly (like, more than once a week), you will get there. If you slack off, the strength fades quickly, and technique fades more slowly. If you're mostly looking at progress in terms of grades, though, I'd say forget it, because it's not a means to an end. The means IS the end.

Have fun.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I still cant do 5.10 Index rated cracks on lead. I have managed other spots llike lworth and Squampton at those ratings even up to .10b sometimes...

 

I think Yos and Index are one in the same most of the time so I strive for the local spot attempts. I have only tried to lead some 3 times 5.10 at index. I guess my guts are low but really dont seek any advice about climbing that grade or increasing my skills. I just feel that if I climb more then I will do better.

 

I've SLOWLY (stressing slow) been better at it over time and my gut has actually grown the whole time so I am convinced technique is a major factor. Also I am convinced that ice climbing has helped me in the gut check level a little.

 

I think during a good weather spell I will try another .10a this winter at Index but am not expecting to be successful.

[Necronomicon]

No one wants to die, so no one wants to fall. Once you get used to falling, you can break into the tens.

[Cpt.Caveman]

There is no quoting shit here anymore but if I could quote the Book of the Dead I would agree. I started climbing better when I took whippers on gear. Plus it re-inforces confidence for me

[ryland_moore]

Once you get used to falling, you can break into the tens.

 

I thought this was a thread on breaking OUT of the 5.10s into harder grades?

[Greg_W]

I think he may have been addressing me; I said earlier that I was still working to break into double digits. Practiced falling on gear over the holiday!!

[bolt_clipper]

Boulder in the gym a lot....just ask DFA.

[Matt]

I don't think bouldering in the gym will help you lead Davis-Holland at Index.

 

Maybe it will help you climb 5.10 at Smith, but not Index.

 

As for helping you climb 5.11, I don't know. I have climbed only a handful of 5.11s-- maybe a dozen. Followed TimL up an awesome 5.11 in Yosemite-- South by Southwest. So maybe following stronger climbers helps.

 

I have done a few 5.11s at exit 38, though I don't really think they are 5.11.

 

Maybe if I didn't have to work and I had no interest in sex I could devote all my time and chi to climbing then I could climb 5.11.

 

Mostly all my climbing partners are 5.10 climbers so I don't find myself pushing the grades. Only once this past year I attempted a climb really at my ceiling with a partner who I knew couldn't bail me out if I failed. Even then it was a crack and I knew I could just aid if I couldn't get up it. Serenity Crack

 

I would like to try the second pitch of Japanese Gardens. I am tired of doing just the first pitch, only to look up, wishing I could go on.

 

What's the secret for 5.11 mojo?

Edited December 3, 2002 by Matt

[plexus]

Having only down a handful of 11s on top-rope, it came down to confidence and time. I think unemployment helps. You climb alot, you get better. Ever notice that at the end of a roadtrip, you climb much better than when it started?

 

Going out with better climbers than you also helps a great deal, like you said, but also for another reason methinks. Just seeing somebody do a climb that you don't think you can gives you a mental boost, "Maybe I can do it".

[Necronomicon]

Are you calling me a moron???

[iain]

perhaps based on your avatar image?

[COL._Von_Spanker]

I'm assuming yer talkin' about trad? The barrier thing is real a bitch. Right now I can climb about 4 grades harder than I can lead on trad. It's really frustrating, so I know what yer goin though. I guess it's question of wheter your barrier is nerves or technique, and I'm not sure how to solve either of these problems other than lots of practice and following on really hard stuff.

[chris_w]

I think the more you climb (harder routes), the better you get. I was mentally stuck at leading a 5.10 route for a couple of years. I know I could physicaly climb it but I had mental barrier. I would usually be the better climber out of my normal partners. So I didn't try anything that hard.

 

I just got back from a week of sport climbing at owens river gorge with a ropegun that would put up 11c routes for a warm-up. I would then get to top rope it just to work on technique. I was able to work through most of the climbs after hanging once or twice. I think this helped me understand where my climbing ability is at. When I got back to the PNW I was feeling strong and this past saturday I went to index and lead my first clean 10a gear route (Jap Gardens). I think I have broken my barrier to climb harder. I still think I would climb harder if I fell on my gear a couple of times. I still haven't taken a leader fall on gear yet in 6 years.

 

Good topic

Chris

[ryland_moore]

I think Plexus is right, climbing with those better than you will help you imrpove your abilities. Especially if they are encouraging you and giving you suggestions as to how to improve or how you should have tried a move to make it easier. Bouldering in a gym can actually imrpove your abilities outside. I find it helpful when you boulder in a gym (very social setting) and you try really hard moves that may require technique you do not use often or are too afraid to do 15 ft above your last piece of gear or even on a bolted route. Practicing the move itself has come in handy for me quite often and has allowed to start moving into the .11 range (on sport that is). Crack climbing is frustrating to train for, b/c the only real way to practrice cracks is to do it and gyms typically don't offer that as much. Bouldering can also become a hinderance, b/c if you focus on it too much, you only build power and lose your endurance! Mix it up have fun and I am just hoping it will come eventually for me.... I don't want to take the fun out of it.

[minx]

This is a good topic. I'm only just now getting back to where 5.10 anything is in the picture. I think most people have mental hurdles to jump before they can progress. That point is different for each of us. Definitely climb w/people who exceed your ability. You're more likely to push yourself. If it's not just leading that's giving you a hard time then find the opportunity to TR the type of route you're struggling with. Being able to practice moves is important and builds confidence.

 

I think the strength vs. technique question is a good one. I wonder if it's different for the women than for the men. After not climbing for several years, I found that I was pretty weak this summer. I had to rely on technique to get up a lot of routes that I normally would've just powered up w/out thinking. Not that my technique wasn't rusty but it was my only hope. I didn't have the muscle to climb sloppy. Even some 5.9 routes weren't gimmes w/o some thoughtful footwork. Guess my strength v. technique grade is a little lower than 5.10. How about gals...anyone else?

 

The strength

[sk]

good question. my thoughts:

 

I have verry little upper body strength. so I find that I rely mostly on technique. I have powerful legs and that is where the majority of my strength is. I learnd alot this summer climbing with way better climbers (thanks Tex) and actualy top roped a real 5.10 with out falls... granted I worked on it for more than a week, but that was a big break through for me.

 

truth be known, I HATE TO WORK OUT! HATE IT!!! but I think to progress any further I will have to seriously start to work out, (and not sparadicly) to build strength and endurance.

 

so bottom line you need a good balence between strength and tecnique... it doesn't hurt to have a good strength to body weight ratio either. I have watched JK start climbing after me and totaly out class me due in part to his strength and size and his natral ability... he's working .10 and .11 now. I suck

 

[chucK]

This has all been posted above, but a summary might help here. To get on tougher climbs, it helps to

 

a) get stronger

b) improve technique

 

The gym will definitely help with a), if you don't injure yourself. The only times I have ever felt close to ready for climbing 5.11 was after winters when I went to the gym regularly. I was told once that the secret to 5.11 is that things that used to not be holds are now holds. Much smaller things can be holds when you are strong. It is not just technique that turns nubbins to rests.

 

Climbing more frequently will help with b), if you don't injure yourself.

 

Climbing more frequently will also allow you to help train your head for leading.

 

Your leading level (especially trad) is optimized when your confidence is well aligned with your physical ability. If your confidence is below your physical ability, obviously it will hold you back. Confidence above your physical ability is usually not much of a problem as it is a self-correcting thing.

 

Climbing with a stronger partner (following) can help a lot if your confidence is well below your physical ability. You can find out that you actually CAN climb something you thought was above you. But if you already have a pretty good idea of what you can do, it doesn't help much because you can just get psyched out or just climb out of control (which is what you know you wouldn't want to do on lead). Note how most of the harder climbers in those other threads said that they climbed more poorly on toprope.

 

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Climbing with stronger/better climbers is a great way to improve, and training helps too. Doing some cardio shtuff like running is helpful for building endurance, too, and is often overlooked. DFA found himself climbing much better after a few months of running, and climbing laps on the lead wall at the gym. Doing laps in the gym is helpful, as you can give yourself something moderate to work out on, adjusting difficulty as needed. It's a great way to focus on getting mental control over being pumped, which can be a huge way to advance. Think about it; how many times have you fallen off moves you can do after a rest because you were too pumped? Or blown an onsight because you let the pump take over? There is a huge mental component to being pumped, as it's your brain essentially trying to stop you from doing whatever's flooding your muscles with lactic acid, in this case climbing. So you start getting tense or scared, you feel like you can't keep going, you get gripped, and you're outta there. You'll find your technique getting sloppy, which makes you more gripped -- the phrase "pumped stupid" is actually pretty accurate. Teaching yourself to recognize this and overcome it is key. When you feel yourself starting to get pumped, remind yourself that you're totally safe, everything's cool, and you don't need to be pumped. Focus on controlling your breathing, taking deep breaths, and getting relaxed, and remind yourself that you're in control. Remind yourself to maintain good technique, keep focusing on your footwork, don't rush, etc. Sounds hokey as hell, but it's remarkably effective and helpful.

 

Training your weaknesses is also handy. If you can't crimp for shit or you wither at the thought of dynoing, or if fear of falling paralyzes you, you're not going to advance until you overcome that weakness. Try to analyze your climbing or ask your partners where they think you could improve, and put in some time every time you're at the gym or the crag and work on whichever areas you need improvement. You'll likely break through your barrier, and you'll be a better-rounded climber as a result.

[Bronco]

Things that don't help are:

climbing with a bad attitude

sketching and putzing around trying to get the "perfect" placement instead of just "satisfactory"

hanging and crying

panicing

getting mad and throwing your rack into the N. fork of the Sky for participating in the above behavior.

[thelawgoddess]

Training your weaknesses is also handy. If you can't crimp for shit or you wither at the thought of dynoing, or if fear of falling paralyzes you, you're not going to advance until you overcome that weakness. Try to analyze your climbing or ask your partners where they think you could improve, and put in some time every time you're at the gym or the crag and work on whichever areas you need improvement. You'll likely break through your barrier, and you'll be a better-rounded climber as a result.

 

well, there's my problem(s). i definitely need to work on my weaknesses. do you have any suggestions for getting over one's fear of falling on lead, though? the only two times i took falls on lead i got pretty hurt and i know it's holding me back big time.

[chucK]

do you have any suggestions for getting over one's fear of falling on lead, though? the only two times i took falls on lead i got pretty hurt and i know it's holding me back big time.

 

Yes. Get over this irrational fear of getting hurt! Those two falls didn't kill you did they? You're fine now (really fine! ROWWR). Just because the only two times you've fallen, you've gotten hurt, it doesn't mean you'll die next time. Most likely you'll just bust an ankle or two, or maybe get a concussion. You're young. You heal quickly. You'll be back on the rock in no time (2003). Push your limits! Riding a motorcycle on the freeway is way more dangerous. That'll probably kill you 90% of the time.

 

 

 

[kevinoregon]

the only two times i took falls on lead i got pretty hurt

 

Wow, that is going to be tough to overcome. It took me a couple years to get over the fear of falling. I got hurt a bit too, but only because I always tried to grab onto everything in sight as I was falling. It took some time to learn to trust the gear and just let go, or even to push off to insure a clean fall. I hope your pain was not due to gear popping out or some such thing that would make it harder to trust the gear. Stoppers work really well, and I have taken some pretty good leader falls on even the smallest of them. Good Luck.