Lazy Guidebook Authors

[pu]

There is a little piss ant crag here where I live that is pretty enjoyable to climb at. I learned to climb there and I know a bit about the people and the history of the routes.

 

I have never written a guidebook, but I have read a lot of them and I appreciate the good ones. A good guide book takes a lot of energy to produce but a poor guide book is theft in my opinion and not worth producing.

 

I think a good guide book for climbing should contain the following.

 

1. Good Directions: To the area. To the routes. To Amenities.

 

2. Accurate route information: FA info if possible. Gear requirements.

 

I don't have much respect for authors who produce shoddy material. In fact, I had the opportunity to interact with a local "guide book author" at our local crag the other day. We were having a heated discussion about something that is appropriate for an entirely different spray topic, when he says "if you had bought my guide book you would know this".

 

Are you serious? I have perused this guide book. There was no effort to gather FA information. Many route names and ratings are way off. Numerous bits of editorializing about "there are no old trad climbers. they're all dead." The bit about the history of the area leaves out many of the major players in route development in the 90's, which is when this area had a MAJOR boom.

 

So, I am obligated to buy your inaccurate, poorly researched rag in order to stay "up to date" on happenings? Get a life!

 

This guy even went as far as chopping and changing established routes because he's never heard of anyone doing them! He's never heard of anyone doing them because he doesn't ask,doesn't listen, and can't climb them. They are moderate routes to boot, 10's and 11's.

 

A couple of examples of good books, IMHO.

 

Leavenworth Rock. Kramer.

Frenchman's Coulee. Ford and Yoder

Smith Rock. Watts

Skaha. Richardson

Winter Dance. Josephson.

 

Bad Book

My local area.

ANYTHING by Ron Bruckhorst. I will demand my money back if I ever meet him!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[E-rock]

Add Tony Calderone in the Desert West to he "bad" list.

[wayne]

At least there are those books, I co-wrote one due out 3 years ago and still waiting.

 

I sent pages of corrections to Fred that probably wont see print either. As long as we are ranting about books, I struggle with the info part of Winter Dance. The cody section in particular needs the map supplement you can get at the Bozeman climbing shop. Ever try to decipher the Burdo series? His latter works have improved though. I do like Inland Rock Climbs though.

[DPS]

I'm so lazy I've never even written a guidebook.

[genepires]

be a part of the solution. write your own guidebook. write a good guidebook. be an example instead of a complainer.

[pu]

Yes Wayne, At least a crappy guidebook can get the desire going even if it doesn't have any useful information in it.

 

If you're gonna do something do it well comes to mind.

 

Gene, You will notice I gave some examples of good work.

 

Edited May 20, 2012 by pu

[chirp]

I love complete area history. Too many authors leave out FA info, anecdotes and style data. I find that stuff enhances the overall experience majorly.

But mebbe thats Geezerish...I will accept that.

[Off_White]

There was a notion awhile back that leaving out FA information was supposed to cut down on the egoish names-in-the-guidebook syndrome, but it was a silly idea. That info is important historically, and it can provide valuable insight into a route as well. Take City of Rocks for instance, knowing who put it up will give you some clues as to how clean something may be and how thoughtful fixed pro placements may be. In Red Rocks, if Joe Herbst was on the FA, you'll know you'll want to bring your "A" game to that 5.9.

 

I wrote a guide way way back in the day, it was a fair bit of work, sort of full time for 3 months, but hey, I got college credit for it and made up a bunch of names that are still in use 34 years later. Takes chutzpah to write a guidebook.

[chirp]

There was a notion awhile back that leaving out FA information was supposed to cut down on the egoish names-in-the-guidebook syndrome, but it was a silly idea. That info is important historically, and it can provide valuable insight into a route as well. Take City of Rocks for instance, knowing who put it up will give you some clues as to how clean something may be and how thoughtful fixed pro placements may be. In Red Rocks, if Joe Herbst was on the FA, you'll know you'll want to bring your "A" game to that 5.9.

 

I wrote a guide way way back in the day, it was a fair bit of work, sort of full time for 3 months, but hey, I got college credit for it and made up a bunch of names that are still in use 34 years later. Takes chutzpah to write a guidebook.

 

[rob]

be a part of the solution. write your own guidebook. write a good guidebook. be an example instead of a complainer.

 

I hate this advice. You're not allowed to just complain about anything, you just have to set an example yourself? Hippie bullshit. I guess I better quit my job and start working construction, because the guys digging up my street are doing a terrible job. Oh, and I guess I better stop complaining about Congress, too.

[genepires]

be a part of the solution. write your own guidebook. write a good guidebook. be an example instead of a complainer.

 

I hate this advice. You're not allowed to just complain about anything, you just have to set an example yourself? Hippie bullshit. I guess I better quit my job and start working construction, because the guys digging up my street are doing a terrible job. Oh, and I guess I better stop complaining about Congress, too.

 

maybe you should try to dig up a road and then fix it. you might learn that those "guys" are doing a good job.

the point is to walk a thousand miles in someones shoes before casting judgement or some other silly "hippie" or native american or Buddhist nonsense.

but we have freedom of speech so feel free to complain away.

[Pete_H]

Yeah Rob you better go diddle a few kids before you can complain that pedophiles and catholic priests are shitbags.

[AlpineK]

Yeah Rob you better go diddle a few kids before you can complain that pedophiles and catholic priests are shitbags.

 

And break into your neighbor's houses steal their stuff then sell it back to them. Then and only then can you complain about home burglary and slimy rackets.

[max]

be a part of the solution. write your own guidebook. write a good guidebook. be an example instead of a complainer.

 

Marc Dilley did a pretty descent job of this for Vantage...

http://www.justgetout.net/ClientFiles/8ecf9e69-8f8f-419d-91d8-10c7ca9cbcbb/VantageGuide-AllEdited-515.pdf

 

These days you don't need a bunch of money... just time and effort and you can produce pretty slick documents.

 

I was up at Newhalem the last few days and wish someone would put something together for that place. The NPS site just doesn't cut it!

 

[genepires]

there was some info on the newhalem place somewhere on the web. Pretty good topo. Will try to find it again. I might have found it here on cc.com somewhere. maybe a search within the last 10 years can bring it back up.

[genepires]

http://www.rcnw.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=631

 

topo for newhalem, hopefully better than the NPS site.

[DPS]

I've always thought the Squamish guidebook was good, at least compared to the other ones out at that time. Nelson and Potterfields guide was a bigger improvement to climbing that sticky rubber or Friends for me. The Beckey guides, while full of natural and human history, were hard to discern what would make a good winter climb, what season to climb in, good approach info etc. The Nelson guides changed all that and made climbing much easier.

[olyclimber]

just go up the obvious gully bitches. its all there. why do you need me to connect the dots for you?

[olyclimber]

oh wait...is it a heel hook or a gaston?

[rob]

just go up the obvious gully bitches. its all there. why do you need me to connect the dots for you?

 

Don't complain about people complaining until you've tried complaining about it yourself. Walk a mile in our shoes, dickhead!

[Off_White]

Rob, you might want to get your bearings checked, they're really starting to whine.

[rob]

Lol that's fair