What size ice axe to buy? Another opinion

[cartman]

It is customary to recommend an ice ax length that is 1-2" above the ground when held loosely in the hand. I think this is too short.

 

Why?

 

The majority of travel on glaciers and other terrain when holding an ice ax will be on relatively low-angle slopes. In this terrain, an ice ax is there to provide security and to prevent a fall if you need to arrest. The best way to prevent a fall is good technique and staying in balance. A short ax plunged into snow will force the climber out of balance by leaning too far to the side and forward on low-angle slopes. The softer the snow, the deeper the ax is plunged and the farther the climber will have to lean over. A longer ax helps the climber to stay more upright.

 

The ax is also used as a cane to help with balance and to push off when stepping (similar to using a trekking pole), utilizing the upper body and conserving energy use by the legs. When leaning too far, it is far more energy-wasting to come out of the step, and does not allow the climber to use the rest step with maximum efficiency. I have seen climbers exhaust themselves when using a too-short ax in sloppy snow conditions.

 

I am 5'11" and started out, before I had any real idea what I was doing, with an 85cm ax and made even this work on moderate slopes. I've been using 70cm axes for years now and will not use a shorter ax for the vast majority of routes. The tip of a 70 touches the ground when held loosely in my hand. A shorter tool can, but not always, provide better security when going up or traversing steep routes, especially on firm snow. However, not being an extreme climber these are a small minority of the slopes I travel, so the 70cm ax suits me best.

 

Each climber will learn his/her preference; but for beginning climbers who will be traveling on moderate slopes to start, I would recommend a longer ax as their first.

[DPS]

Ice axes are for steeper slopes, they are not walking aids, they are climbing aids. They should not be used as canes, that is what treking poles are for. On low angle slopes (~ <25 degrees) trekking poles work fine for balance and the other points you made. I have seen climbers use one trekking pole and one shorter axe to good effect. The best of both worlds. If I have to bend over to use my axe, I use my trekking poles. The slope is not so steep that I worry about sliding off of it.

 

On steeper slopes a long axe must be lifted higher before plunging, tiring the shoulder. That said, if you enjoy walking around with a long axe, more power to you, but I am sticking with my 58cm axe (I am 5'9") and my trekking poles. Petzl makes and axe with an extendable trekking pole from the bottom. This may solve the problems you encountered without having to carry trekking poles if you don't like them.

 

I still recommend beginning climbers buy an appropriate length ice axe (58-65 cm for most climbers) and a pair of trekking poles.

Edited April 11, 2012 by DPS

[cartman]

I disagree, especially re: glaciers. On glaciers they are both climbing and walking aids, and most people will have an ax in hand regardless of the slope angle for arresting in case of a crevasse fall. Therefore, when walking on moderately angled glacier slopes the ax can be used to push off (after a proper plunge for self-belay) for the reasons I stated above.

 

I've used the one ax (70cm)/one pole method myself to good effect. If doing this on exposed terrain, trick is to have the pole out of the way if needing to arrest; one must be prepared to sacrifice the pole in this case, and the pole leash should never be used if an arrest could be necessary as the pole could get in the way of an immediate arrest. As could one's instincts to hold onto the pole, for that matter. On harder terrain or short/catastrophic runouts, the poles get put away, but at times I'll use the technique with long runouts. Good judgment is crucial if using this technique.

Edited April 11, 2012 by cartman

[ScaredSilly]

Both have good points. On glaciers that are flat an ice axe is a tool to arrest with if a crevasse fall occurs. They are not a walking aid as they are typically too short - that is what ski poles are for. Once on steeper slopes and ice axe is used in multiple ways, from stability, a cane, arresting etc. Similarly a ski pole can be used.

 

IMHO the best overall length axe is 60cm for a person who is 6'0" +/- 2-3"

[Coldfinger]

It is customary to recommend an ice ax length that is 1-2" above the ground when held loosely in the hand. I think this is too short.

 

Why?

 

The majority of travel on glaciers and other terrain when holding an ice ax will be on relatively low-angle slopes.

 

You're a bit out of date, especially at altitude, most folks who have the skill use ski or trekking poles, and switch to an axe on steeper ground, where a short axe fits the bill.

[keenwesh]

low angle glacier travel where you're worried about crevasse fall, ax in one hand and trekking pole in the other. yer not gonna die.

[Coldfinger]

Actually he was suggesting a longer axe than 1", I'm thinking that would be great if bailing, as in heading downhill.....

[chirp]

Maybe search around a bit, a nice article >>>>> HERE <<<<< in case you missed it.

[keenwesh]

Actually he was suggesting a longer axe than 1", I'm thinking that would be great if bailing, as in heading downhill.....

 

should have been more clear, my mistake. the ax in one hand would be a standard 65 or 70 cm. It's a tool for self arrest, not a walking stick. the trekking pole provides support.

[Coldfinger]

Well one thought....

 

Maybe if one is on really steep and sloppy snow where a slip is likely and a fall will not be self-arrested, one might like an axe shorter than a telephone pole so it is easy to plunge to the head every three steps or so.

 

Saved me before.

[cartman]

Maybe search around a bit, a nice artical >>>>> HERE <<<<< in case you missed it.

 

It was this article that prompted my original post. Jim leaves plenty of room to go shorter or longer; my point is that longer is usually going to work better for beginners, and for many on moderate terrain.

 

As far as using an ice ax as a walking stick, suppose I'd have to show the technique to explain what I mean by that. I use it as a cane while self-belaying at the same time when moving.

Edited April 12, 2012 by cartman

[Coldfinger]

I always thought self belaying meant plunging the shaft to the head.

 

Kinda hard to do when walking.

[cartman]

Any plunge can be a self-belay if it's helping to prevent a fall.

[Coldfinger]

Plunging cane, er I meant crane?

 

Haven't seen that kung fu.

[Stinkydog]

I have an old 85 cm steel axe that has come in handy on a few winter/early spring river trips. When there's ice along the banks, sometimes you need to self-arrest from a kayak or canoe

[Tennessee]

Sometimes I plunge my 85cm shaft into other people's axe holes.

[wetslide]

TMI.

[hamballs]

Giants rejoice. Black Diamond has a fancy ski pole with an ice axe head attached to it. It gets up to 140cm for your glacier walking/balancing/leaning pleasure. They call it the … Whippet.

 

Honestly though, if you want a cane, use a ski pole or whippet. If you want an ice axe, stick with a standard size. You shouldn't have to drag it behind you because its taller than you.

[JoshK]

A really long axe is also a royal PiTA sticking off the top of your pack when you are in the middle of a bushwhack. I wish I was kidding, but the reality is that is actually a concern.

 

Whippets are awesome. I've carried one plenty of times on trips where I may or may not even use an axe since I'll have poles anyway. I've lost track of the number of times I've used a whippet to hook a tree while skinning up through some absurdly steep forest. Perfect for pulling up Dynafit levers too. An all around great multi-purpose tool.

[Coldfinger]

This is the kind of thread, math wise, that makes me wonder if posters divided by actual people might =>1.

 

Btw the expedition specialist banner I'm seeing just to the left has a ski pole.

[genepires]

If you want an ice axe, stick with a standard size. You shouldn't have to drag it behind you because its taller than you.

 

conrad kain and his generation would say otherwise. let the rebirth of the giant alpenstocks and their step whacking assault upon the ice slopes begin.

 

[Fromage]

Long ice axes are for people who wear giant heavy gaiters, plastic boots, shorts over polypro, the Seattle Sombrero, and take a 50-pound, 5,000 cubic inch backpack loaded with the 87 essentials, including a titanium spork, on an overnight scramble. It's the kind of thing they think they need because it's "conventional wisdom" but don't question why.

 

I'm 6'4". According to "conventional wisdom" I should be carrying a fully-deployed avalanche probe with an ice axe head welded on to one end. Yet I use a 58cm ice axe. It works great. In fact, it's even better than the 65cm axe I used to own.

 

Long ice axes are a liability. If you need a walking aid on low-angle terrain either your footwork is deficient, your pack is too heavy, you need to train harder, or you should take up dog sledding.

 

I may come across as an ice axe length snob in this post and for that I offer no apologies. In 16 years of climbing mountains I have not found a single advantage to a longer ice axe. Actually, that's not true. Fording a creek in the North Cascades once my partner fell in and was swept away by the current. She reached out her ice axe to me and I grabbed it, pulling her to the bank. If she had been carrying a 70cm ice axe instead of a 60cm, I might have been able to grasp it a split-second sooner.

[rob]

If you want an ice axe, stick with a standard size. You shouldn't have to drag it behind you because its taller than you.

 

conrad kain and his generation would say otherwise. let the rebirth of the giant alpenstocks and their step whacking assault upon the ice slopes begin.

 

A few years ago an inexperienced climber fell on a small ice slope near the summit of three-fingers and ripped his calf open with his crampons. He had a HUGE antique ice axe, one of those long wooden ones with a straight pick and no teeth. He was unable to arrest.

[genepires]

A few years ago an inexperienced climber fell on a small ice slope near the summit of three-fingers and ripped his calf open with his crampons. He had a HUGE antique ice axe, one of those long wooden ones with a straight pick and no teeth. He was unable to arrest.

 

he should have been hacking in monster steps. the spirit of alpinists of yore would have helped him out.

 

unable to arrest and having crampons on is a bad situation. actually, falling with crampons on is a bad situation too.

[Dane]

He had a HUGE antique ice axe, one of those long wooden ones with a straight pick and no teeth. He was unable to arrest.[/img]

 

Just to be clear here it is highly unlikely that the self arrest was complicated by eithter the size of the axe or the straight pick. As both make it easier to self arrest generally.