China

[olyclimber]

For now, it sure looks like "Socialism" is winning, doesn't it? And "capitalism" it getting its ass handed to it.

[olyclimber]

Hard to argue with success. And failure.

[pink]

For now, it sure looks like "Socialism" is winning, doesn't it? And "capitalism" it getting its ass handed to it.

 

 

 

free tibet

[Fairweather]

For now, it sure looks like "Socialism" is winning, doesn't it? And "capitalism" it getting its ass handed to it.

 

YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS COMMENTING ON CHINESE AFFAIRS UNLESS YOU SPEAK FLUENT MANDARIN AND WERE ONCE ABLE TO CLIMB 5.10.

 

--Steve

[Fairweather]

Hard to argue with success. And failure.

 

1.3Bn Chinese. Yes, it's working well for the .2Bn urbanites who have adopted capitalism. For the remaining 1.1Bn, not so much.

[111]

seen this yet? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8844646/World-power-swings-back-to-America.html#disqus_thread

 

The US already meets 72pc of its own oil needs, up from around 50pc a decade ago.

"The implications of this shift are very large for geopolitics, energy security, historical military alliances and economic activity. As US reliance on the Middle East continues to drop, Europe is turning more dependent and will likely become more exposed to rent-seeking behaviour from oligopolistic players," said Mr Blanch.

Meanwhile, the China-US seesaw is about to swing the other way. Offshoring is out, 're-inshoring' is the new fashion.

"Made in America, Again" - a report this month by Boston Consulting Group - said Chinese wage inflation running at 16pc a year for a decade has closed much of the cost gap. China is no longer the "default location" for cheap plants supplying the US.

A "tipping point" is near in computers, electrical equipment, machinery, autos and motor parts, plastics and rubber, fabricated metals, and even furniture.

"A surprising amount of work that rushed to China over the past decade could soon start to come back," said BCG's Harold Sirkin.

The gap in "productivity-adjusted wages" will narrow from 22pc of US levels in 2005 to 43pc (61pc for the US South) by 2015. Add in shipping costs, reliability woes, technology piracy, and the advantage shifts back to the US.

Edited November 6, 2011 by 111

[KaskadskyjKozak]

For now, it sure looks like "Socialism" is winning, doesn't it? And "capitalism" it getting its ass handed to it.

 

Not.

 

[AlpineK]

First made in Japan meant cheap, Then made in China took over.

 

Made in Bangladesh? Made in Mozambique?

 

Forget all that nonsense. Robots will take over and our only job will be bickering about stuff on CC or other sites.

 

Machines are about to get so good that humans just won’t have anything to do at all. We won’t need to sow, weed or reap, sew or in fact anything. Not only will food and clothes be made by machine, the machines that make the machines that make the food and clothes (and houses and cars and computer games and….) will be made by machines.

 

Humans will therefore have no jobs, no jobs at all. Ford thinks this is appalling as therefore human beings will have no incomes. I think it sounds like a rather wondrous world actually, even without humans having any incomes.

 

For a job, an income, isn’t in fact what any of us humans want. What we want is the ability to consume (consume houses, food, clothes, cars etc, all of which are now being made by machine recall) and and income and or a job are only methods of achieving that. So, if the machines are doing all of the work then, well, who is going to be consuming the output? As there’s only us human beings to do so I pretty much guess that it will be us human beings consuming all of the output. And if we’re able to consume all of this output being produced by the machines then why would we care about having a job or an income? We get to consume without either, don’t we?

 

All of our material needs are being fulfilled by the machines. We are thus able to be:

 

A farmer in the morning, a laborer in the afternoon, and a philosopher in the evening.

 

We’re able to be communists in short. Potter around growing a tomato or two in the morning (nothing quite like it for the spirit, to actually nurture and grow a plant then eat the produce), labour a little in the afternoon at that tennis backhand or lay the crazy paving (yes, the machine could and would do it better and faster but the spiritual rewards of hand work are, as we are told, considerable) and in the evening we can yammer with our friends over silliness (that is what philosophers do, yes, yammer with friends over sillinesses?).

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/11/06/will-robots-take-out-jobs-who-cares/

[olyclimber]

For now, it sure looks like "Socialism" is winning, doesn't it? And "capitalism" it getting its ass handed to it.

 

Not.

 

YEP! 'MERICA IS CRUSHING THEM COMMIES!!!!!!!!!!!~1111

[olyclimber]

Hard to argue with success. And failure.

 

1.3Bn Chinese. Yes, it's working well for the .2Bn urbanites who have adopted capitalism. For the remaining 1.1Bn, not so much.

 

So wait....you mean them Chinese Commies are better capitalists than America?? And since when did you get behind this whole 99% movement?????

[olyclimber]

seen this yet? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8844646/World-power-swings-back-to-America.html#disqus_thread

 

The US already meets 72pc of its own oil needs, up from around 50pc a decade ago.

"The implications of this shift are very large for geopolitics, energy security, historical military alliances and economic activity. As US reliance on the Middle East continues to drop, Europe is turning more dependent and will likely become more exposed to rent-seeking behaviour from oligopolistic players," said Mr Blanch.

Meanwhile, the China-US seesaw is about to swing the other way. Offshoring is out, 're-inshoring' is the new fashion.

"Made in America, Again" - a report this month by Boston Consulting Group - said Chinese wage inflation running at 16pc a year for a decade has closed much of the cost gap. China is no longer the "default location" for cheap plants supplying the US.

A "tipping point" is near in computers, electrical equipment, machinery, autos and motor parts, plastics and rubber, fabricated metals, and even furniture.

"A surprising amount of work that rushed to China over the past decade could soon start to come back," said BCG's Harold Sirkin.

The gap in "productivity-adjusted wages" will narrow from 22pc of US levels in 2005 to 43pc (61pc for the US South) by 2015. Add in shipping costs, reliability woes, technology piracy, and the advantage shifts back to the US.

 

Well the obvious enemy to this happening are the EPA and workers rights organizations. Otherwise our sweatshops will never compete.

[olyclimber]

For now, it sure looks like "Socialism" is winning, doesn't it? And "capitalism" it getting its ass handed to it.

 

 

 

free tibet

 

yeah. how about tibet on an installment plan with 30% interest?

[Fairweather]

Hard to argue with success. And failure.

 

1.3Bn Chinese. Yes, it's working well for the .2Bn urbanites who have adopted capitalism. For the remaining 1.1Bn, not so much.

 

So wait....you mean them Chinese Commies are better capitalists than America?? And since when did you get behind this whole 99% movement?????

 

I'm part of the 53% movement.

[ivan]

 

I'm part of the 53% movement.

well, on behalf of the 99% then...

[sobo]

ivan,

I think there's a bunch of youngsters here that aren't gonna get that image without it's accompanying caption. Jus' sayin'...

[olyclimber]

[video:youtube]WytC7QcIF9M

[tvashtarkatena]

Income equality is typically measured by the gini coefficient (look it up, already). China's gini coefficient is the same as that of the US. It has been rising rapidly (increasing income inequality), as has the US.

 

China is certainly a single party, highly socialist country with a poor track record on civil liberties. The US is a representative democracy with more freedom of expression and association, but our record on civil liberties is actually much worse than China's by some measures.

 

 

 

The most glaring measure is incarceration rate.

 

With more than 2.3 million people in prison, and 1/4 of the world's prisoners (and only 5% of its population) the USA has, by far, the highest incarceration rate in the world...nearly twice as high as its next competitor (Russia) and well over 7 times higher than China.

 

Some people have claimed that China executes more people than the USA (and therefore has fewer prisoners), but this doesn't stand up to the data.

 

Amnesty international estimated 1718 executions in Chine in 2008, as compared to 37 in the USA (Unlike the USA, China's execution rates are not published). While the per capita execution rate in the US is about 10 times lower than in China, the number of executions in either country is too small to meaningfully affect incarceration rate.

 

In addition to incarceration rate, the criminal justice system in the US has been proven to discriminate against African Americans 3 to 1 regardless of what step (arrest rate, conviction rate, incarceration rate) is measured. This pattern is AFTER slightly different crime rates between ethnic groups are taken into account.

 

In summary, the USA cannot really point fingers at China for being any less humane or less free than we are when some important, quantifiable measures are considered.

 

 

 

[billcoe]

the USA cannot really point fingers at China for being any less humane or less free than we are when some important, quantifiable measures are considered.

 

Typical stupidity and self-centerness from the Oppressive wing. The treatment of Falen Gong, or any religious choice made not in turn with the state belief is really nothing. Nothing at all. Nothing to see there, lets summarize with the "The United States" goverment class is a much more horrible group of rulers. NOT! You really needs to see some of the rest of the world Pat, and I'm not talking about a trip out of your state to Oregon.

 

http://faluninfo.net/topic/2/

Torture of Falun Gong adherents has been documented in each of China’s provinces, in jails, labor camps, brainwashing centers, and schools in China’s big cities, small towns, and villages.

 

Popular torture techniques include shocking with electric batons, burning with irons, tying the body in painful positions for days, force-feeding saline solutions through a plastic tube inserted up the nose, and prying out fingernails with bamboo shoots, to name a few; rape and sexual torture of the Falun Gong in detention are prevalent as well.

 

To date over 3,000 deaths have been documented, as well as over 63,000 accounts of torture.

[Fairweather]

Income equality is typically measured by the gini coefficient (look it up, already). China's gini coefficient is the same as that of the US. It has been rising rapidly (increasing income inequality), as has the US.

 

China is certainly a single party, highly socialist country with a poor track record on civil liberties. The US is a representative democracy with more freedom of expression and association, but our record on civil liberties is actually much worse than China's by some measures.

 

 

 

The most glaring measure is incarceration rate.

 

With more than 2.3 million people in prison, and 1/4 of the world's prisoners (and only 5% of its population) the USA has, by far, the highest incarceration rate in the world...nearly twice as high as its next competitor (Russia) and well over 7 times higher than China.

 

Some people have claimed that China executes more people than the USA (and therefore has fewer prisoners), but this doesn't stand up to the data.

 

Amnesty international estimated 1718 executions in Chine in 2008, as compared to 37 in the USA (Unlike the USA, China's execution rates are not published). While the per capita execution rate in the US is about 10 times lower than in China, the number of executions in either country is too small to meaningfully affect incarceration rate.

 

In addition to incarceration rate, the criminal justice system in the US has been proven to discriminate against African Americans 3 to 1 regardless of what step (arrest rate, conviction rate, incarceration rate) is measured. This pattern is AFTER slightly different crime rates between ethnic groups are taken into account.

 

In summary, the USA cannot really point fingers at China for being any less humane or less free than we are when some important, quantifiable measures are considered.

 

 

 

We all know this topic is part of your latest ego self-massage, but you make quite a leap to get to it. Off topic. Nobody cares. Please reread.

[tvashtarkatena]

It should be noted that the execution rate in both China and the USA is declining, and has been for some years.

 

The incarceration rate in the USA, however, began to spike in the 1980s when the Reagan Administration accelerated the Nixon's administration's War on Drugs - it has grown at more than 3 times the rate of our overall population ever since and continues to accelerate year by year.

 

Today, if you are an African American man under the age of 40 without a diploma, you have a 60% chance of having spent a year or more behind bars, and a 1 in 2 chance that your time was served for a non-violent drug offense.

 

The War on Drugs has eroded our civil liberties on many fronts (warrantless surveillance being just one of many), it has been highly discriminatory, has cost trillions, produced a prison nation, and...wait for it...illicit drug usage rates in the USA across the board are higher than they've ever been and, yes, we have the highest per capita illicit drug use in the world.

 

I'd call that a fail, but YMMV.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2011 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

I've got 'legalize pot' petitions if anybody wants to gather signatures...the first step in ending a failed War on Drugs. 20 names per sheet. Takes about an hour in front of a busy grocery store.

 

 

[ivan]

I've got 'legalize pot' petitions if anybody wants to gather signatures...the first step in ending a failed War on Drugs. 20 names per sheet. Takes about an hour in front of a busy grocery store.

 

or 10 seconds out front of a phish concert, providing enough smoke has cleared to be able to see the clipboard

[G-spotter]

One child policy makes China the most rapidly aging country in the world.

 

Median Chinese age > Median American age in the early 2020s.

 

HELLO OLD PERSON! THANK YOU FOR LETTING GRANDFATHER TO POST!

[tvashtarkatena]

It should also be noted that the US prison system isn't exactly a model for humane treatment. Our prisons are essentially violence and rape camps, attributes that many Americans openly take delight in. In addition, the USA heavily uses solitary confinement, probably the most damaging form of torture for a human being, and one that can produce the most lost lasting and serious psychological effects. Considering that over a million people are in prison for non-violent drug offenses, and over half of those are there for marijuana related offenses, this constitutes a civil rights catastrophe of enormous proportions...yet one most Americans remain utterly unaware of.

 

I realize that some posters here have lived extensively abroad in places like China, Billcoe apparently being one, so their focus may reflect the civil rights battles they've personally waged in those far away regions, but, as Americans, we can only directly effect what goes on here at home. When it comes to incarceration, we are, by far, the worst of the worst.

 

Every once in while I run into an American who responds to this kind of critique with anger, even accusations that such a critique amounts to tacit approval of some worse totalitarian state they've read about in the blogosphere, but most people I talk to are appropriately dismayed by these statistics and do not attempt to reshift the focus elsewhere.

 

Edited November 7, 2011 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

Actually, the one child policy apparently had far less to do with China's stabilizing population than their modernization, egalitarian education/employment policies towards women, and easy availability of birth control and family planning services, according to a recent story on NPR.