layton Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 i'm just full of stupid questions. here's one on ascender placement: This is NOT regarding standard two jumar,two aider jugging. This is a question regarding a set-up where one or both feet are attached to the SAME jumar/prussic. In a "frog" style set-up for ascending the rope, the gri-gri (or gri-gri like device) is attached BELOW the prussic/ascender with the aider or cordelette for foot loops. But, in set-ups that use another jumar or prussic for the body (i.e. not the feet), it is usually shown that the foot prussic/ascender is placed BELOW. A classic example is the set-up for a Texas Kick crevasse rig. Anyone ever tried switching it up with the leg prussic above the body weight one? Does it matter? I'm bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvallisclimb Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) edit: the reason you have the feet on top for the frog system is because you usually set it up with a mechanical advantage to haul up the body part... i mean you could do it but you would just be mimicking the frog just using two jugs instead of one and a gri gri, if that makes sense? the texas style(ithink?) is just a simplified version of the normal way to jug with one aider so you gotta put both feet in that. Edited October 27, 2011 by corvallisclimb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) [img:left]http://cf.mp-cdn.net/91/cf/0e0a05a24854683123462d42aaae.jpg[/img] [img:center]http://s1.postimage.org/1i1di3hxg/Texas_system.jpg[/img] [img:center]http://wasg.iinet.net.au/srt/prus.gif[/img] Of course some folks only use one prussic unless competition rules demand a backup. [video:youtube] Edited October 27, 2011 by Feck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 some of those hugs made me uncomfortable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 edit: the reason you have the feet on top for the frog system is because you usually set it up with a mechanical advantage to haul up the body part... i mean you could do it but you would just be mimicking the frog just using two jugs instead of one and a gri gri, if that makes sense? the texas style(ithink?) is just a simplified version of the normal way to jug with one aider so you gotta put both feet in that. that's my prefered way of cleaning an aid pitch (not simply jugging a fixed line - the standard way works better then, 'specially when it's a looooong jug) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_T_Stevenson Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I always carry Texas prusik slings - i.e. a set of foot loops and a waist / chest loop (attached to waist and possibly clipped into chest harness after fall), for crevasse extrication. If I happen to have ascenders on me (if there is fixed-rope climbing elsewhere on the route, or aid sections), I will clip those loops into the ascenders instead of doing the prusik wraps because it's faster, but the concept is the same. The upper ascender / loop extends to just before the limit of my reach when hanging from it, then when I bring my legs up as high as possible, the foot ascender / prusik slides up to just beneath the upper one. Then I stand, push up the waist / chest ascender, and repeat. It helps to remove my pack and clip it into the rope bight between the foot ascender and the harness tie-in, so that it is weighted and advancing the foot loops doesn't move the rope around much. Periodically I may tie in short to reduce the fall distance should an ascender fail - depends on the distance to top out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Ivan, is that photo on Thin Red Line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I've used a setup with 1 Jumar high attached to foot loops and something like a Petzl Shunt attached to my harness at waist level. Worked great No problems whatsoever. Not quite a slick as Ivan's setup with a pulley but it worked well. Once you get a up a few feet and have some rope weight underneath you the rope automatically feeds through the Shunt so you don't really have to pull much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicMtnBoy Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 It's pretty easy to see why it's harder to have the waist prusik below the foot loops if you try it, especially if the rope is not heavily weighted below you. If you have the waist prusik on top you can "rest" on it while you fiddle to get the foot prusik up. If you have the foot prusik on top and the rope below you is slack you have to spend a lot more energy to balance yourself on your feet while you try to slide the lower waist prusik up. If you are using a gri-gri or similar it's not an issue because you can just pull up on the slack line (or down if you use an extra pulley like ivan). If you are using a normal jumar or a prusik it will be a bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 It's pretty easy to see why it's harder to have the waist prusik below the foot loops if you try it, especially if the rope is not heavily weighted below you. If you have the waist prusik on top you can "rest" on it while you fiddle to get the foot prusik up. If you have the foot prusik on top and the rope below you is slack you have to spend a lot more energy to balance yourself on your feet while you try to slide the lower waist prusik up. If you are using a gri-gri or similar it's not an issue because you can just pull up on the slack line (or down if you use an extra pulley like ivan). If you are using a normal jumar or a prusik it will be a bitch. BING BING BING!! Yes, thank you. That was the reason i was looking for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 you can do the leg prussik(s) above the waist, if you use a Garda at the waist. Just like in Ivan's photo, but swap the Garda for the GriGri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 a reverso, smart, or kong gi-gi also work well any actual experience with the garda? never actually used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 yep, easier to pull upwards IMO than an autoblocking device (short of the redirected GriGri in Ivan's photo). I usually clip a sling to the prussik and back to my belay loop as a backup in case the Garda shifts and doesn't catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Ivan, is that photo on Thin Red Line? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 OMB has the answer to layton's original query. The Grigri and ascender is not a frog sytem, it is known as a Rapid Ascent Descent (RAD) system. What selkirk describes is basically a Frog system. It usually uses a Croll as the chest ascender, and a Basic or Ascension as the upper ascender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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