Bolting overhanging routes

[dooley]

Long time lurker, very seldom poster.

 

Looking for info on how to bolt overhanging lines that will be projects. It is limestone if that helps. I have searched this site and the internet and can not come up with anything that will tell me how to. Looking for direction as I am sure a few here have done it.

 

Can possibly rap into the wall but then I am hanging out from the wall by "x" number of feet. I have thought of rapping and having a friend at the base pull me in but have not tried. Advice would be appreciated as I have bolted vertical walls but not overhanging.

 

Thanks

[G-spotter]

1) Ground up, probably with lots of aid techniques. The best way to deal with super steep to fully horizontal stuff. You can't really rap bolt a 50 foot horizontal roof.

 

2) Tensioned line. Better to have an anchor at the base than someone getting bored holding you in by hand.

 

3) Top down with intermediate anchors. Like you rap down, drill a bolt, immediately clip the rap rope in to it. Now you are hanging from that rather than from the lip of the cliff.

[Rad]

I've done 2 and 3 + intermediate gear. Sometimes multiple ropes are needed to pull yourself from side to side. Tensioned line is harder than you might think.

[Quarryographer]

I'm a big fan of the tensioned line. It takes a bit of creativity to get one up, but gives you maximum bang for your buck.My 2c.

 

[JosephH]

One word - Willy

[dooley]

I am thinking a little more about the tension line. Dropping a static line, tying off at the base to an anchor with alot of tension, then I can use ascenders to make my way up at least to drill the first bolts.

 

Never seen that willy stick before. Pretty cool but I can imagine dropping a load if you go for the windshield wiper!

 

Thanks for the info guys. If anyone has picture of their set up for bolting overhanging routes feel free to post. We all love pictures after all!

[G-spotter]

http://novebi.ning.com/video/ivan-maghella-rope-walker

 

Not a recommended technique, necessarily

[Rad]

Willy might work on cobbles where you have large protrusions to minimize the risk of "wiping", but on smoother walls that would be scary.

 

If you do the tension thing, consider having a second rope for your locking device/ascenders and use the tensioned line to get close to the wall. Use backups, be safe, be creative, have fun!

[dooley]

I was thinking two ropes. Clipped into the tensioned line to keep me into the wall and another rope for me to move on. Will post up the wall the next time I head out.

[hanman]

Why not add a 4th hanger to the bottom of the Willy stick and tension with a ground anchored tag line to minimize wiper effect? Hmmmm....

[d_sowerby]

Long time lurker, very seldom poster.

 

Looking for info on how to bolt overhanging lines that will be projects. It is limestone if that helps. I have searched this site and the internet and can not come up with anything that will tell me how to. Looking for direction as I am sure a few here have done it.

 

Can possibly rap into the wall but then I am hanging out from the wall by "x" number of feet. I have thought of rapping and having a friend at the base pull me in but have not tried. Advice would be appreciated as I have bolted vertical walls but not overhanging.

 

Thanks

I would need a bit more info about the line, but lacking that I would invest in some 1/4inch bolts. A skyhook is also handy. Is it pocketed limestone? then nuts and cams. Get the first bolt ( 1/4" or 3/8" ) in as high as you can safely reach, then alternate, try and work out clipping stances as you go. 1/4" bolts can be removed or tapped all the way in afterwards. You can get quite a reach from aiders - the 3/8" bolts will be about 6-8ft apart. Down bolting is probably the least successful. Have fun --------------dave

[Kimmo]

Looking for info on how to bolt overhanging lines that will be projects. It is limestone if that helps.

 

depends on a couple of things:

 

how steep?

 

and where is it located?

[bwwakaranai]

We've had good luck using someone to swing you in from the bottom. Hooks are also a very usful tool. Get ready for a good abb workout!

[dooley]

The wall is about 50 degree over hang and it isnt pocketed limestone. Mostly slopers and crimpers.

 

The wall is located in the Yukon on a mountain of limestone that if it was in the south (as in south of the 60th parallel) it would have hundreds of routes already. But since there is only a dozen or so full time climbers here it is untouched except for 15 routes or so on a short vertical wall. I just relocated from Squamish and this place is like a play ground if you have the drive to put up new routes.

 

I thought of using aid but hooking up a steep overhanging would make for an interesting day.

 

Ab blaster here I come!

[Quarryographer]

Sounds like Tension line territory for sure. I got the idea from short clips of Sharma bolting steep limestone. Take an old retired climbing rope, and fix it to the chains, or the last bolt you can reach before you hang in space. Drill a temp bolt just above the ground with a cold shut, or biner. Put a bight as high up as you can reach. Thread it through the cold shut, and back through the bight. Pull tight, an ascender really helps get all the stretch out. And finish with a clove around the whole thing. I like to use the canyoneers biner block rappel with a gri gri, on a single line for hands free working, and so I can pull the rope from the base after each session. You can also toprope the route this way to work out bolt placements. And if you clip a draw from your belay loop to the tension line you won't swing far on toprope.

Another 2c +. Have fun! I wish we had some of that love around here!

[orion_sonya]

Long time lurker, very seldom poster.

 

Looking for info on how to bolt overhanging lines that will be projects. It is limestone if that helps. I have searched this site and the internet and can not come up with anything that will tell me how to. Looking for direction as I am sure a few here have done it.

 

Can possibly rap into the wall but then I am hanging out from the wall by "x" number of feet. I have thought of rapping and having a friend at the base pull me in but have not tried. Advice would be appreciated as I have bolted vertical walls but not overhanging.

 

Thanks

I would need a bit more info about the line, but lacking that I would invest in some 1/4inch bolts. A skyhook is also handy. Is it pocketed limestone? then nuts and cams. Get the first bolt ( 1/4" or 3/8" ) in as high as you can safely reach, then alternate, try and work out clipping stances as you go. 1/4" bolts can be removed or tapped all the way in afterwards. You can get quite a reach from aiders - the 3/8" bolts will be about 6-8ft apart. Down bolting is probably the least successful. Have fun --------------dave

 

yup Dave know what he is talking about - go ground up. you can also aid off non-expansion eye bolts between the 3/8" bolts instead of leaving 1/4".

 

A tension line seems like a cluster and I am not sure you could get it tight enough to keep you close enough to the rock to drill easily. 50 degrees overhanging is steep!!

 

edit - to say I have never tried to use a tension line and the post above makes it sound not so bad - so who knows...

Edited September 30, 2011 by orion_sonya

[billcoe]

Sounds like Tension line territory for sure. I got the idea from short clips of Sharma bolting steep limestone. Take an old retired climbing rope, and fix it to the chains, or the last bolt you can reach before you hang in space. Drill a temp bolt just above the ground with a cold shut, or biner. Put a bight as high up as you can reach. Thread it through the cold shut, and back through the bight. Pull tight, an ascender really helps get all the stretch out. And finish with a clove around the whole thing. I like to use the canyoneers biner block rappel with a gri gri, on a single line for hands free working, and so I can pull the rope from the base after each session. You can also toprope the route this way to work out bolt placements. And if you clip a draw from your belay loop to the tension line you won't swing far on toprope.

Another 2c +. Have fun! I wish we had some of that love around here!

 

Man, I bet if I re-read this 3 times I'll figure out about half of it.

[dooley]

Well if I can get half of the process out of it I should be able to at least get a couple of bolts in

 

Thanks for all your help folks. Look out over hangings, your time of never being caressed by human hands is numbered!

[billcoe]

Well if I can get half of the process out of it I should be able to at least get a couple of bolts in

 

Hmmm. Googling that gets me this:

 

 

 

 

Easy to understand.

 

 

[Quarryographer]

Sorry, my attempt to keep it short made it hard to understand. I've looked in the archives for any pics that may be helpful, but no luck. Billcoe found a pretty decent diagram of the biner block rappel...

 

[JonNelson]

Great question Dooley, I've wondered about the best way to do slightly overhung bolting & cleaning myself.

 

I had a lot of difficulty cleaning & bolting a vertical route that slanted - a slight bulge at the top made it hard to move across and get leverage for cleaning and drilling.

(See http://www.mountainproject.com/v/he-was-an-aficionado-of-not-only-trains-but-of-the-entire-railway-system/107291194)

 

I figured that the next time, I'd put in short 1/4" bolts to hold the rope in close to the rock, that is, G-spotter's #3. One even might be able to pull out the bolts and re-use them on another project.

 

But I wonder if the Willy Stick would work even better if one used it going top-down? Anybody tried this? You couldn't have the dreaded windshield-wiper problem, and it seems you could use much longer 2x4s than the 6-footers recommended on the website.

 

Jon

 

[alexbaker]

Dude it's 2011 just drill a bolt ladder and take out the ones that you don't wanna clip.

[dooley]

No worries Quarryograher, I understood your process. Just was a lot to process in the ol' mental image.

 

I find it surprising that for all the over hanging bolted sport routes out there that it is next to impossible to find the process in how it was/is done. I think of routes that are bolted and never been sent and wonder how the hell did the botls get set if you cant aid the line. Seems I am starting to understand the process a little more.

 

As I said first, long time lurker and never post as normally someone else has equal or better information then myself. But this is a topic that I dont believe I have ever seen discussed. Even though I have tecnically moved out of the Pacific northwest, I still love this site. I am however now closer to Alaska then when I lived in Squamish!