New Crack

[Off_White]

I dunno Pete, I don't think bolts are any more chicken than gear. You've been around long enough to do some bolted routes that are quite scary. A chicken bolt is one placed near a bad gear placement, it frees up that part of your mind which is gibbering madly about just how screwed you are.

[sk]

onethat you need to work on

[Off_White]

quote:

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Originally posted by Necronomicon:

Although, what do you call an ascent where you hang at every bolt but don't actually take a fall?

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That's still just dogging it.

 

Were you suggesting "Stain Point" as a name for Richard's new route?

[rr666]

quote:

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Originally posted by Necronomicon:

Although, what do you call an ascent where you hang at every bolt but don't actually take a fall?

---

Wouldn't that be a A0??

[DavidW]

I didnt think location was part of the subject of either poptarts or noggin's posts. Mr. Puget I applaud your mention of responsibility and public lands. Anyone altering the landscape whether it's diggin out a crack or bolting a face is making an arguabley arrogant statement with a medium that they don't own. Since putting up anything less than a cutting edge route has little to do with the historical advance of our sport it seems to me that the ONLY excuse for altering the landscape can be in creating something of widespread & longstanding value in a craftsman-like manner.

 

typically R and X rated routes tend to be routes pioneered onsight...... I struggle with the morality of putting them up intentianally although I have done so myself.

 

In general I believe a 5.8 route should be reasonable for at least some 5.8 climbers and that the degree of seriousness is a choice made by the FA people. Lets hope they choose with responsibility.

[Off_White]

quote:

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Originally posted by DavidW:

it seems to me that the ONLY excuse for altering the landscape can be in creating something of widespread & longstanding value in a craftsman-like manner.

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Exactly! More of a public service and less of a moment of self glorification. I think this is a reason its good to have first ascent information in a guidebook, because some people lovingly craft their routes and others just dash them off, and knowing someone's body of work can give you a good indication of what you can expect on a route.

[Retrosaurus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter Puget:

...I view it this way: by asserting yourself and taking public property in order to make the FA you have a broader responsibilty to make the route resonably safe and climbable for everyone. That doesn't mean a bolt every four feet, but certainly the normal effects of the normal accumulation of dirt on the nut placements should be considered.

 

PP

 

More routes please!

---

PP, I can smell your pussy from the other side of the range. Spare us and use some feminine deodorant spray or douche or something for christ's sake!

 

"...responsibilty to make the route resonably safe and climbable for everyone."

Why of course because ever since the advent of sport climbing so few climbers develop the ability to assess the risks of a climb and act appropriately (such as down climbing). Establish routes to the lowest common denominator. You degrade climbing and climbers.

 

"...but certainly the normal effects of the normal accumulation of dirt on the nut placements should be considered."

Advocating bolting because nut placements might get dirty.

 

Why are you not still sulking?

[richard_noggin]

Originally posted by Retrosaurus:

 

PP, I can smell your pussy from the other side of the range. Spare us and use some feminine deodorant spray or douche or something for christ's sake!

 

 

Retro you have such a way with words!

Do you kiss your wife with that mouth

[Thrasher]

mr bobonmynobbin,

 

Nobody cares about you and your friend's secret little crags. There are endless crags in WA if you just look around a little.

 

To come on the internet and talk about bolting in such the manner you have will only bring out people spraying everywhere. You should know that by now.

 

Happy fishing.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I saw some new crack down on the beach in a thong

[allthumbs]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

I saw some new crack down on the beach in a thong

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did you bolt it?

[Cpt.Caveman]

I pinkpointed it

[Retrosaurus]

quote:

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Originally posted by richard noggin:

Do you kiss your wife with that mouth

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No. But your wife loves it.

[pope]

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter Puget:

Off-

 

Isn't "chicken" in the phrase "chicken bolt" redundent?

 

Peter

---

Peter, that sounds like some of my B.S.

 

My two cents is that if you can get by without the bolt, by all means do. On the other hand, if the quality of the pitch warrants the attention of many climbers, and if only one bolt is "required" to protect a deadly section, then get the opinion of climbers from across the spectrum as to whether the run-out section is really "deadly" and whether the bolt is "required" to make the climb "reasonable". These terms are fairly subjective to be sure.

 

Finally, ask yourself whether addition of the bolt is going to add something to the cliff. By that I mean, is the line going to be of such quality that a bolt seems worth it? I think that bolts generally detract from a cliff, unless the route being added is so stellar as to be worth one or two bolts. In some cases, such as at a cliff that already offers a variety of excellent routes and where bolts have "traditionally" been avoided, I would avoid the bolt at all costs.

 

A measure of risk and the general absence of artificial modifications help preserve what is great about mountaineering.

[sleepinglady]

 

 

[ 07-25-2002, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: sleepinglady ]

[Retrosaurus]

Oops. This belonged under the Old Crack thread.

[AlpineK]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Saccharine Trust:

Notice to climbers asking questions on the board:

From here on out, you will be required to submit your climbing resume to Erik the moderator before asking any questions about anything, especially climbing ethics. This is a matter of world importance and only Erik is authorized to determine whether or not you are worthy of asking such a question. Prepare to be dazzling for the interview to follow the resume review.

 

Weekend warriors and people with interests other than climbing need not apply.

---

Allison,

 

If you want respect in the long term for your opinion then actions not words are what counts. Yes you can have an opinion, just don't expect people to take you seriously.

 

Trask claims he isn't a climber, and you don't see him commenting on bolt ethics.

 

[ 07-25-2002, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ]

[DavidW]

It's public land...... some of these cliffs glitter like a disco ball in the sunshine. Everyone, including the family guy hiking by with his dog and kids has a right to an opinion and to be heard. Even Trask

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by sleepinglady:

quote:

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Originally posted by richard noggin:

The third is in Leavenworth ,a bushwack through private property owned by a climber, this crag is destined to be secret for as long as possible.

I have been sworn to secrecy by the climbers that discovered these crags.Sorry dude, Bolt choppers affect all of us.

---

Richard,

 

You have the sense to keep from spraying about new areas don't you? The Cascade Sprayers will talk and talk and then some day your routes will be discovered and then they will threaten to chop your bolts because they don't agree with your ethics. Even if every one else does agree. They will hate you for finding a new area and not telling them so that they can snake your first ascents.

 

S.L.

---

You are silly. You can get tons of 1st ascents on the crags across from SCW wall as well as up above upper 8 mile buttress. Jealous

[erik]

good call ray,

 

this is sooooooooo much damn rock in the icicle...peope who feel the need to hide "their""new" crags go right ahead. cuz there is plenty more, plus i like to hike and that damn drill is heavy.......

 

*yawn*

 

allison,

 

so annoying, no funny hahaha!

[AlpineK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by DavidW:

It's public land...... some of these cliffs glitter like a disco ball in the sunshine. Everyone, including the family guy hiking by with his dog and kids has a right to an opinion and to be heard. Even Trask

---

Everyone's got a right to comment on aesthetics; but the ethics of placing a bolt based on available natural protection requires some experience leading climbs.

[sleepinglady]

 

 

[ 07-25-2002, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: sleepinglady ]

[Cpt.Caveman]

I am replying I chop and steal em. How do you steal 1st ascents Umm let me put that in my pocket

 

[ 07-25-2002, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[Peter_Puget]

Peter[/qb]

Peter, that sounds like some of my B.S.

 

I know but I couldn't resist poking fun.

 

But thanks for adding the following two points. After making my post I neglected to mention these closley related factors.

 

"if the quality of the pitch warrants the attention of many climbers"

 

"is the line going to be of such quality that a bolt seems worth it?"

 

Unlike you I do not believe that a sample of the climbing population should be queried. The difficulty of obtaining a proper sample aside, putting in a bolt doesn't seem such a difficult a decsion. If constructive criticsim and firendly feedback is given as just part of the general enviroment I believe that most people would make the right choice. Those who are renagades will always be a problem.

 

Of course Pope and I also agree that top ropes can be groovy too.

 

PP

[Peter_Puget]

I agree with David W that a wide range of opinions and participants in the discussion can only improve the quality of the debate. I say address the argument not the resume!

 

PP