Thin ropes- tag lines?

[freak]

What do you guys think is the thinnest line you can get that can be used as a tag line for light hauling, and descents when tied together with a normal 9.8-10 mm single rope?

Any advice on this set up would be much appreciated. Also when tie-ing these ropes together do you do anything special? I'm sure the information is out there but I figured I would ask here first. I was thinking of picking one up with all these sales that are happening.

 

thanks

[dberdinka]

I had a 5mm but it was far to prone to tangles. Much happier with 6mm. I heard of some guys who essentially used a ball of twine as pull line for full rope raps in the Bugaboos, so I guess you could go far skinnier.

[DPS]

I did the skinny lead line (9.4 mm) and thin tag line (6-7mm) for a few years with various results. For clean raps it works well, but if there is any chance of the tag line getting caught, it will. The last time I used this system was on the North Face of Mt Index. We had so many problems pulling the ropes that I cut up the tag line for tat and prusiks as soon as I got home.

[robpatterson5]

This has been covered a few months ago - Esprite Alpine Escape line sounds like the one to get. Reading your post now, I kinda wonder how it works compared to doubles though.

[sandalsclub]

5 mil

[Coldfinger]

This has been covered a few months ago - Esprite Alpine Escape line sounds like the one to get. Reading your post now, I kinda wonder how it works compared to doubles though.

 

Got mine!

[kukuzka1]

I did the skinny lead line (9.4 mm) and thin tag line (6-7mm) for a few years with various results. For clean raps it works well, but if there is any chance of the tag line getting caught, it will. The last time I used this system was on the North Face of Mt Index. We had so many problems pulling the ropes that I cut up the tag line for tat and prusiks as soon as I got home.

I was just curious, if this was in summer or winter?

[DPS]

Summer. I think in winter it would be better.

[cbcbd]

I've used a 5mm tag line a few times now. Most times it has worked fine with 9.*mm and 8.*mm ropes. Tied with EDK, backed up by another EDK inline.

 

One thing that was learned fast was that I could not toss the tag line like you would a thicker rope (rope!). Instead I've flaked the rope at the rappel anchor and had the 2nd to rappel feed and tend the rope to the 1st rappeler as needed. I would imagine that you'd get the same result or better if you had the rope flaked with you and fed it as you rappelled.

 

I've used the 5mm tag line for ice cragging this winter and on Infinite Bliss.

[jhamaker]

I let the 3 or 4 mm cord uncoil from my shoulder, neck, or from the spagetti pile in my pack. The thinner the line, the more likely it is to tangle.

[DPS]

I tried with varying results to flake the tag line into a stuff sack clipped to my harness. While it helps to eliminate the line from getting caught up, it tended to knot up in the stuff sack anyway. Maybe the 5.5 mm techy cord would work better since it is stiffer?

[cbcbd]

I think this has been covered in other threads but just another reminder when using a skinny tag line and also feeding it through the ATC - the thinner line will travel through the ATC faster than the fatter line. If you let it slip through the knot on the rap point will keep moving down and you will reach the end of the skinny line much quicker than expected.

 

If rappelling through a small point (rap ring, chain-link, or a knotted loop on a rap-sling) make sure to put the thick rope through the rap point and tie a big-enough joining knot to have it jam against the point. If you can't do that or are unsure that your knot will jam then tie an overhand on a bight on the skinny rope and clip this to the thick rope, like this:

 

[ktschmid]

Sweet pics Doug!

 

Along the lines of this subject I've heard much praise for the Epirte "Personal Alpine Escape Cord," supposedly a stiff and burly 6mm static line; however I can't find its existence anywhere other than being mentioned in threads. Can't find it on their website either (http://www.espritropes.com/), do they still make it?

[kurthicks]

Check out use of a skinny tag line in the 1940's!

 

Check it at 2:38 in:

http://www.mountaineers.org/history/notes/movie/mtneers-1940s-tumwater.html

 

and how I do it. one can substitute "damaged rope" for tag line.

[dberdinka]

Just got done using an Imlay 6mm pull cord for climbing in Zion. We hauled (with a minitrax) a light bag a total of about 12 pitches and did about 25+ raps with it and it's held up admirably. It's not nylon rather polyester I think which makes it much more static and hence much easier to pull. It's wirey for sure and we used ropebags throughout to manage it at belays and on rappel. Relatively cheap at $75 for 200'.

[layton]

I use the bluewater searchline, rated way higher than Darin's cord. It must have kevlar or something in the core since I could not burn the ends. Works awesome

[JasonG]

So are twin ropes just too 20th century? I would imagine that the lightest 7.5-7.7 twins would compare favorably to a thicker lead line and pull cord for weight(although probably more money). I understand that for harder rock they wouldn't haul worth a damn, however....

 

It seems like 1/2 or twin lines used to be the standard for ice and long alpine climbs, and am wondering if they are mostly out of favor now. Is rope management while leading the deciding factor for going with the systems described above? Or?

[JasonG]

I don't know Mike- I think the spec on the Bluewater is around 2500 lbs while Darin's is about 2200, both for 6mm. The Imlay is less than half the price per foot too....

[pu]

I prefer a single rope/tag line whenever possible because it makes rope management much simpler. I don't break the tag line out until it is time to rap. Also, skinny ropes love to tangle with themselves and everyone else. My tag line is a 7mm x 70M PMI. Cost me about $85 at Mountain Gear.

[Buckaroo]

Some 5mil tech cord might work (New England). It's static and very stiff especially after it's been weighted, this also means it tangles less. Very expensive though but it will hold full weight on raps.

 

http://promountainsports.com/index.php/climbing/ropes/tech-cord-5mm-60m.html