Health Mandate Unconstitutional?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

commercials make me insane - i see maybe 3 a year,

 

You don't watch the Super Bowl?

[ivan]

commercials make me insane - i see maybe 3 a year,

 

You don't watch the Super Bowl?

that's probably the 3 - seems like since i've had kids i haven't caught too much of that big game - plus i always grade papers on sundays

[j_b]

clearly not enough or we'd also have commercial free media.

commercials make me insane - i see maybe 3 a year, and i certainly watch plenty of shit - it's not that hard to filter out, ya know?

 

You can get away from commercials if you can pay, but I doubt many kids watch that kind of programming.

[ivan]

commercials make me insane - i see maybe 3 a year, and i certainly watch plenty of shit - it's not that hard to filter out, ya know?

 

You can get away from commercials if you can pay, but I doubt many kids watch that kind of programming.

whatever - tvash might be living in a mansion but i ain't - if i'm watching tv w/ commericials i mute'em when they come on and read or spray hate-speech if its radio i change the channel. basic cable has on-demand which you can fastforward through the ads w/. it's baffling to me, but there's plenty of folks who LIKE commericials - jeebus, them thar ladies magazines are 99.8% ads! who am i to tell them their interests are stupid?

 

at any rate, i don't see you having much luck trying to limit that form of speech.

 

the most vexing thing about commercials these days are fucking movie theaters - holy shit they're out of control! 10 clams for a ticket and there's almost literally no part of the expereince that isn't bleeding w/ ads - used to be you'd get to a movie early to make sure you didn't miss the start - now you're a fucking retard if you don't aim to arrive at your seat 10 minutes after the show is supposed to start so you don't lose your mind to all the blaring ads!

Edited December 16, 2010 by ivan

[j_b]

You need more than basic cable to have more than a very small no commercial offering and you don't have much to talk about to bubba at work, and there is very little for kids.

 

I didn't say I wanted to limit that form of speech, I said I wanted to tax it to pay for diverse non-commercial media.

[Nitrox]

Strange, I don't have cable/satellite TV and my kids don't bum TV and internet from my neighbors. I wonder if that's why my three year old can read? Nah, can't be.

 

We get zero TV commercials and its free.

 

 

 

 

[Fairweather]

 

I didn't say I wanted to limit that form of speech, I said I wanted to tax it...

 

So is it free--or taxed? You have got to be the dumbest knife in this website's drawer. Seriously.

[AlpineK]

Strange, I don't have cable/satellite TV and my kids don't bum TV and internet from my neighbors. I wonder if that's why my three year old can read? Nah, can't be.

 

We get zero TV commercials and its free.

 

 

 

 

The last time I watched TV on a regular basis was when the cable company forgot to disconnect the line at a rental house. Eventually they caught on and pulled the plug.

 

I did get a, "special offer," to reconnect, but I figured BS on the Internet was a lot more entertaining. The cable bill didn't inspire me either. Of course if the Dukes of Hazard was still producing shows I might change my opinion.

 

 

[j_b]

Strange, I don't have cable/satellite TV and my kids don't bum TV and internet from my neighbors. I wonder if that's why my three year old can read? Nah, can't be.

 

we'll see how long they stay ahead of the curve ...

 

We get zero TV commercials and its free.

 

you must be thinking about the TV going on in your head continuously.

 

 

[j_b]

 

I didn't say I wanted to limit that form of speech, I said I wanted to tax it...

 

So is it free--or taxed? You have got to be the dumbest knife in this website's drawer. Seriously.

 

since when is advertising free, retard?

[ivan]

uh, don't commercials pay for this website?

 

hate to agree w/ fw (for if you are the dull knife jb, he has to be the spork), but to tax is to limit, and i don't see how the lawyer-folk will navigate around that 1st amendment issue

 

i seem to recall seeing 2000 year old ads on the walls of pompeii - they're part of life - you want non-commercial tv? get hbo? or listen to npr or watch pbs? shit, even there you'll still get ads, though in a far more tolerable form at least!

Edited December 17, 2010 by ivan

[tvashtarkatena]

You need more than basic cable to have more than a very small no commercial offering and you don't have much to talk about to bubba at work, and there is very little for kids.

 

I didn't say I wanted to limit that form of speech, I said I wanted to tax it to pay for diverse non-commercial media.

 

One word: Netflix.

[mattp]

Fairweather,

 

I am (once again) disappointed that you refuse to talk about the issues but prefer personal attack.

 

You brought the charge: Obama was thuggish in criticizing a Supreme Court opinion. Then you refused to stand by that charge.

 

You said his criticism threatened the separate of powers doctrine. I stated that I disagreed. But the real point is this: Obama has been centrist and conciliatory toward the opposition. Even if you disagree with this statement, it is very hard to find any basis for calling Obama "thuggish."

 

If you don't want to talk about your boy Bush, how about Boehner and McConnell, who have repeatedly stated that their highest priority was to defeat Obama and deny him any defeatable accomplishment rather than to actually try to do what was right on any given issue? A little bit "thuggish," no?

 

How is it that you would label OBAMA as thuggish given the fact that his predecessor (who you defended at every turn) and the current opposition guys make him look like a lamb?

[mattp]

JayB:

 

I'm with you in thinking that a Congressional mandate for you and I to invest in private insurance is dubious at best.

 

Would you think it better if Obama care had included a public option? I think the single payor model would have been best, but certainly there should be a public option, no?

 

And what about the payment model? I think that the current "payment for procedure" way of doing business encourages fluff and waste. Do you agree?

 

 

[j_b]

uh, don't commercials pay for this website?

 

hate to agree w/ fw (for if you are the dull knife jb, he has to be the spork), but to tax is to limit, and i don't see how the lawyer-folk will navigate around that 1st amendment issue

 

taxing isn't limiting. Taxing is correcting for the distortion due to costs externalized by corporations, like a stable educated workforce and a sustainable environment. Also, economic growth rates were historically higher when taxation rates were a lot higher.

 

i seem to recall seeing 2000 year old ads on the walls of pompeii - they're part of life - you want non-commercial tv? get hbo? or listen to npr or watch pbs? shit, even there you'll still get ads, though in a far more tolerable form at least!

 

As I said, my comments are about people who watch commercial TV because they have little other choice.

[Nitrox]

 

As I said, my comments are about people who watch commercial TV because they have little other choice.

 

Umm, you realize watching TV is a choice don't you?

 

 

[ivan]

 

As I said, my comments are about people who watch commercial TV because they have little other choice.

 

Umm, you realize watching TV is a choice don't you?

 

indeed. dooooood, wether you watch commercials or not is pretty much THE litmus test of wether or not you're a retard.

[Fairweather]

Fairweather,

 

I am (once again) disappointed that you refuse to talk about the issues but prefer personal attack.

 

You brought the charge: Obama was thuggish in criticizing a Supreme Court opinion. Then you refused to stand by that charge.

 

 

No Matt, you took up your usual tactic of mischaracterizing my charge. What I said was not that Obama criticizing the Supreme Court was beyond the pale, but, rather, that doing it during a State of the Union address was thuggish. Of course, you already know this. Honestly, Matt, I've decided I just can't keep up with the straw men you create, the disingenuous nature of your attacks, or take the risk that you'll resort to your fallback strategy: outing. Again Matt; just drop it.

[Fairweather]

hate to agree w/ fw (for if you are the dull knife jb, he has to be the spork), but to tax is to limit, and i don't see how the lawyer-folk will navigate around that 1st amendment issue

 

 

Dude, the spork is, like, the greatest invention of all time. Thanks.

[tvashtarkatena]

FYI:

Two types of taxes are currently charged for advertising: state sales tax at the time of sale and state and federal income tax when revenue from advertising sold is reported.

[ivan]

hate to agree w/ fw (for if you are the dull knife jb, he has to be the spork), but to tax is to limit, and i don't see how the lawyer-folk will navigate around that 1st amendment issue

 

 

Dude, the spork is, like, the greatest invention of all time. Thanks.

sucks as a fork and's dangerous as a spoon - invariably made of plastic or some other inferior substance- plus it doesn't fit in w/ anything else in the silverware drawer - i stand by my analogy

[JayB]

JayB:

 

I'm with you in thinking that a Congressional mandate for you and I to invest in private insurance is dubious at best.

 

Would you think it better if Obama care had included a public option? I think the single payor model would have been best, but certainly there should be a public option, no?

 

And what about the payment model? I think that the current "payment for procedure" way of doing business encourages fluff and waste. Do you agree?

 

 

I agree that the set of incentives built into current system leads patients to consume more health care, and doctors to provide/sell more of it than would occur under either your preferred scenario or mine.

 

Doctors are humans and they respond to incentives just like anyone else - so on that basis alone I'd agree that being paid per procedure will generate more procedures than you'd have otherwise. There's more to the spending story with that, most of which has to do with handing over payment for virtually all medical care to third parties.

 

If single payor involved the government issuing checks or credits on an income-adjusted basis to individuals who are free to use the funds to pay for medical care however they wish then I'd have no problem with it - but making the government the sole administrator isn't something that I could ever support for a number of reasons.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

As I said, my comments are about people who watch commercial TV because they have little other choice.

 

Umm, you realize watching TV is a choice don't you?

 

indeed. dooooood, wether you watch commercials or not is pretty much THE litmus test of wether or not you're a retard.

 

+1

 

commercials are for taking a leak, grabbing another beer, or getting some more chips/popcorn.

[billcoe]

[ivan]

thread killing picture putting in billkkkoe!