Dino Rossi

[prole]

So back the drivers….the question is not whether they make as much money as you hot as shit cc.commies but rather are they overpaid compared to what they would earn outside of the government/union monopoly. I think the answer to that is yes. For example school bus drivers earn a wage far lower than Metro drivers. The median greyhound driver wage is less than the lowest tier Metro driver!

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Greyhound_Lines%2c_Inc./Hourly_Rate

 

I am sure if we started including benefits into the calculation The spread between Metro and free® market would be even greater.

 

There is a joint meeting scheduled between the Papal Conclave, the United Nations General Assembly, the Club of Rome, the Elders of Zion, the Orders of Xenu, the Rothschilds, NASA, and the Trilateral Commission to discuss this blockbuster development! Stay tuned...

[Peter_Puget]

Let’s say the base pay differential was such that Metro drivers earned $6.5 more than their oppressed free market brothers. Let’s say additional costs (benefits) of 40% base wage were incurred by the King County. That brings the total differential to $9.1. The annual premium for 1.0 fte of driver is $19k/annum.

 

Now the interesting thing isn’t that taxpayer for the most part are willing to pay this differential. What is surprising is that (and here is an example inspired by Tvash’s AMA comment) that the County pays this premium because of vested interests and not because it is the best use of tax receipts. Here's the example: Because they can push cost such as caring for drug abusers and the mentally incompetent off on someone else – in this case local hospitals – they pay this premium to driver instead of funding efficient social welfare programs. Local hospitals pick up the tab in a relatively inefficient way and pass it along to all of us. Or another way to view it is how many after school programs can be funded with $19k. How many battered women could be sheltered?

 

[Peter_Puget]

Did you bone up on your arithmetic since what 2004? Your ass has been sore all this time?

 

Yep class all the way! Thats why I find you so damn adorable!

[Hugh Conway]

Let’s say the base pay differential was such that Metro drivers earned $6.5 more than their oppressed free market brothers. Let’s say additional costs (benefits) of 40% base wage were incurred by the King County. That brings the total differential to $9.1. The annual premium for 1.0 fte of driver is $19k/annum.

 

Still full of shit on the math I see.

 

PP still thinks he's been wrestling with pigs in shit for a decade and none of it came off on him.

[j_b]

Damn bus drivers! they are taking all of our money:

 

[prole]

Because they can push cost such as caring for drug abusers and the mentally incompetent off on someone else – in this case local hospitals – they pay this premium to driver instead of funding efficient social welfare programs. Local hospitals pick up the tab in a relatively inefficient way and pass it along to all of us. Or another way to view it is how many after school programs can be funded with $19k. How many battered women could be sheltered?

 

This is like, so totally weird, because like, the exact same people who've been fighting public sector unions have also been trying (and succeeding) in cutting funds for the care of drug abusers, mentally incompetent, social welfare programs, after school programs, battered women, etc. Y'all are like for all this shit now?

Edited November 9, 2010 by prole

[prole]

Because paying people a living wage to provide social services IS OUT OF THE QUESTION!!!

[Hugh Conway]

damnit, the poor have no right to live.

[tvashtarkatena]

Tvash - I provided several comparison positions. I'll will add one more: Shuttle bus drivers for several large corporations in the Seattle area earn less than metro drivers.

 

But your point about school drivers is a good one. Those working less than full time often earn more in base pay if they have reduced benefits. So it is quite probable that we should actually discount the school drivers wage rate in order to be comparing apple to apples. Perhaps Mr Math can help us there.......

 

Shuttle bus drivers? LOL. Passenger miles: It's not that tough a concept, buddy. Plus...um...metro buses are just a wee bit bigger vehicle.

 

Keep up the analysis, though. Saves us the work.

[tvashtarkatena]

Your Greyhound example is also typical cherry picked crap.

 

You forgot to include tour bus drivers, who make good coin. You selected (surprise!) only those who drive for a dying company providing an antiquated service for which there is little demand.

 

Also, long distance bus service isn't metro service: the demands drivers (city driving with many stops versus cruise control), demand for service (who the fuck rides Greyhound in the age of cheap as shit cars and even cheaper air travel?) are completely different and not at all comparable.

 

I realize that Rfucks attract people who can't make these distinctions, so you get a bye for stupidity and a gold star for at least trying to do some analysis, even though it was a complete fail.

Edited November 9, 2010 by tvashtarkatena

[Choada_Boy]

Most Americans Want Wealth Distribution of Sweden

 

"Americans generally underestimate the degree of income inequality in the United States, and if given a choice, would distribute wealth in a similar way to the social democracies of Scandinavia, a new study finds.

 

For decades, polls have shown that a plurality of Americans -- around 40 percent -- consider themselves conservative, while only around 20 percent self-identify as liberals. But a new study from two noted economists casts doubt on what values lie beneath those political labels.

 

According to research (PDF) carried out by Michael I. Norton of Harvard Business School and Dan Ariely of Duke University, and flagged by Paul Kedrosky at the Infectious Greed blog, 92 percent of Americans would choose to live in a society with far less income disparity than the US, choosing Sweden's model over that of the US.

 

What's more, the study's authors say that this applies to people of all income levels and all political leanings: The poor and the rich, Democrats and Republicans are all equally likely to choose the Swedish model."

 

 

[selkirk]

One profession, more than any other, REALLY needs to have its bloated compensation slashed.

And that would be doctors.

 

 

hmmm, know a bunch of Dr's, and am related to a few. I might be for reducing pay, but then we had also better subsidize their education a little better (250K in student loans is a bit much), and treat them better as Intern's / residents (you know it's bad when they have to legislate that you can only average 80hrs/week over any 2 week period, which didn't really work anyway), and reign in med malpractice insurance (why there are no OB's in West Virginia anymore).

 

What would be even better would be to flatten out the pay for specialists vs general practitioners.

[tvashtarkatena]

No argument. I just know that there is a wide disparity, in the aggregate mind you, between average doc pay here and in other civilized western countries. None of the GPs I know are overpaid.

 

Instead of slashing the pay of someone who makes 40K a year, i think this area might move things more towards the overall public good.

 

But, hey, I'm not an Rfuck, so i tend to naturally side with the vast majority of folks who can't afford a Boxter rather than those few who can. Greatest good and all that.

[tvashtarkatena]

Ever notice how an Rfuck just can't stop lying, even when they're pretending to make 'cogent arguments', or 'do analysis'?

 

Is it always ignorance? If so, it's willful ignorance, which is , in itself, a type of lying.

 

Much of the time, however, they're just fucking lying.

 

Overall, a pretty greasy bunch of lying asset strippers. Yuck.

[Jim]

There's some restructuring that needs to be done in SOME branches of government, more so regarding benefits than pay; such as upping the employee contribution to medical benefits.

 

And I think there is reason to look at automatic annual pay increases that are on top of COLA annual adjustments. Why should you get a pay raise just for occupying that space.

 

I also think JayB has a general point - that governments need to look at delays in pay raises and more employee contributions for benefits considering the economic circumstances. The voters obviously are not going for more taxes (I disagree) so the only other choice is either these structrual changes or cutting services.

[Hugh Conway]

I might be for reducing pay, but then we had also better subsidize their education a little better (250K in student loans is a bit much), and treat them better as Intern's / residents (you know it's bad when they have to legislate that you can only average 80hrs/week over any 2 week period, which didn't really work anyway),

 

when did an expensive education and many hours at work become a requirement for high pay?

[tvashtarkatena]

Guess Harvard English Majors working it off at Barnes and Noble should be making 200K + then, eh?

[tvashtarkatena]

Of course, we don't need them.

 

But then, we don't need most doctors, either.

[Hugh Conway]

But then, we don't need most doctors, either.

 

follow that logic and you'd realize the "service economy" is a bunch of bullshit and it's declining real wages for most everyone but the plutocrats for the foreseeable future.

[prole]

But then, we don't need most doctors, either.

 

follow that logic and you'd realize the "service economy" is a bunch of bullshit...

 

Hi, I'm your realtor!

 

[Mal_Con]

When I was in Australia you would get your way paid through college if you agreed to teach for two years when you graduated. When you taught you were paid normal wages for a beginning teacher. It seems we could use a similar system here for many professions. You were also free to pay tuition if you did not want the obligation. Doctors there were not paid that much more than teachers.

[prole]

This is a "nation of finks".

[ivan]

When I was in Australia you would get your way paid through college if you agreed to teach for two years when you graduated. When you taught you were paid normal wages for a beginning teacher. It seems we could use a similar system here for many professions. You were also free to pay tuition if you did not want the obligation. Doctors there were not paid that much more than teachers.

from my perspective, the main problem w/ this appraoch is that most first year teachers are fucking horrible - not their fault, it's just htat it takes a couple years to figure the whole thing out (and if you're approaching it mercenary style at the outset, probably not much incentive to do a good job either...)

 

i like th eidea of everybody teaching, mind you - might be better to require it a few years after everyone's established themeselves int heir field though?

[Mal_Con]

What you say is true, of course. Nonetheless the idea of service in return for education has an appeal. While inexperienced the young teachers also bring a lot to the school in the way of outlook and currentness often missing from traditional education.

[Jim]

When I was in Australia you would get your way paid through college if you agreed to teach for two years when you graduated. When you taught you were paid normal wages for a beginning teacher. It seems we could use a similar system here for many professions. You were also free to pay tuition if you did not want the obligation. Doctors there were not paid that much more than teachers.

from my perspective, the main problem w/ this appraoch is that most first year teachers are fucking horrible - not their fault, it's just htat it takes a couple years to figure the whole thing out (and if you're approaching it mercenary style at the outset, probably not much incentive to do a good job either...)

 

i like th eidea of everybody teaching, mind you - might be better to require it a few years after everyone's established themeselves int heir field though?

 

That would also help reduce the deficit by reducing the number supported by Social Security as a large percentage would not be able to hold their own and would certainly be eaten by middle schoolers.