Hell NO on I-1098

[Nitrox]

Totally. Likewise, there is absolutely no reason to run the police department at a loss. Just another example of liberal waste and spending run amok!!! Fucking B-Ho! Hell, he can't even run the post office at a profit. WHAT CAN BROWN DO FOR YOU??? RUN THE POST OFFICE INTO THE GROUND, THAT'S WHAT!!

 

Most PD's are primarily internally funded. While they do get external funding it is not their primary source. If they need more funding they make a push to increase revenue based programs, like speeding tickets. Several state police agencies recently made headlines eliminating their budget deficits by writing more speeding tickets. Virginia and Maryland come to mind. So no, they don't generally run at a loss (most run at a surplus).

 

Also, there is a difference between running at a deficit, running neutral, and running at a profit. The post office is used by private citizens and businesses alike, there is no reason it should take a loss. That isn't advocating the post office should get privatized but clearly the PO management isn't doing as well as UPS or Fedex who do better than just breaking even (which is all that anyone really cares about).

 

 

 

 

[JoshK]

LOL, The fact that you compared a ferry system with gambling/liquor (on which I pretty much agree the govt shouldn't be operating) pretty much proves your opinions are worthless. Thanks for playing.

[Nitrox]

OMG, I don't think the government runs ANYTHING at a profit...HOLY SHIT! Someone alert the tea-baggers!!!

 

Not true, every so often the state of Oregon runs at a surplus and then issues a refund.

 

The goal isn't a profit, just not a loss. I'm surprised you don't understand that, explains why having so much debt is acceptable.

[JoshK]

 

Most PD's are primarily internally funded. While they do get external funding it is not their primary source.

 

Wrong. You flat out made this up...

 

"The Police Department budget is funded, primarily, by two funding elements; the City’s General Fund, and the Public Safety Sales Tax Initiative (Proposition 400) which was created from a voter approved initiative in 2003. In addition to these two funding elements, the department pursues other funding sources including State and Federal grants applicable to the mission of the police department."

 

-Avondale, AZ police dept, http://www.avondale.org/index.aspx?NID=503

 

"The police department is primarily funded by two sources: a permanent police mill levy and the city general fund"

 

-Pickerington, OH police dept, http://www.ci.pickerington.oh.us/sections/government/pdfs/2003/3%2030%20Police.pdf

 

Those were the first two PDs I could find an easy answer to with less than 30 second of work. Clearly this will differ across the thousands of PDs around the country, but considering the first two came across directly contradict your B.S. assertion, either put up some sort of evidence or stop making shit up to support an already invalid argument.

[Nitrox]

LOL, The fact that you compared a ferry system with gambling/liquor (on which I pretty much agree the govt shouldn't be operating) pretty much proves your opinions are worthless. Thanks for playing.

 

Sorry but I don't see it as being essential for the government. The people of Washington shouldn't have to support a select few who choose to live in a place they can not travel to and from on their own. If the service can not sustain itself based on what passengers are charged (or island residents are taxed) then it shouldn't exist as a government program.

 

 

[JoshK]

LOL, The fact that you compared a ferry system with gambling/liquor (on which I pretty much agree the govt shouldn't be operating) pretty much proves your opinions are worthless. Thanks for playing.

 

Sorry but I don't see it as being essential for the government. The people of Washington shouldn't have to support a select few who choose to live in a place they can not travel to and from on their own. If the service can not sustain itself based on what passengers are charged (or island residents are taxed) then it shouldn't exist as a government program.

 

 

Well, thankfully "the people of washington", myself included, disagree with you.

[Nitrox]

LOL, The fact that you compared a ferry system with gambling/liquor (on which I pretty much agree the govt shouldn't be operating) pretty much proves your opinions are worthless. Thanks for playing.

 

Sorry but I don't see it as being essential for the government. The people of Washington shouldn't have to support a select few who choose to live in a place they can not travel to and from on their own. If the service can not sustain itself based on what passengers are charged (or island residents are taxed) then it shouldn't exist as a government program.

 

 

Well, thankfully "the people of washington", myself included, disagree with you.

 

I think you mean the people who live on the islands are thankful, I doubt many residents on the east side of the state agree with it.

 

 

[JoshK]

 

Well, thankfully "the people of washington", myself included, disagree with you.

 

I think you mean the people who live on the islands are thankful, I doubt many residents on the east side of the state agree with it.

 

 

Maybe not. But myself and the other Seattlites are happily paying for their nice highways now, aren't we? Amazing how things work in a society.

[Nitrox]

 

Most PD's are primarily internally funded. While they do get external funding it is not their primary source.

 

Wrong. You flat out made this up...

 

"The Police Department budget is funded, primarily, by two funding elements; the City’s General Fund, and the Public Safety Sales Tax Initiative (Proposition 400) which was created from a voter approved initiative in 2003. In addition to these two funding elements, the department pursues other funding sources including State and Federal grants applicable to the mission of the police department."

 

-Avondale, AZ police dept, http://www.avondale.org/index.aspx?NID=503

 

"The police department is primarily funded by two sources: a permanent police mill levy and the city general fund"

 

-Pickerington, OH police dept, http://www.ci.pickerington.oh.us/sections/government/pdfs/2003/3%2030%20Police.pdf

 

Those were the first two PDs I could find an easy answer to with less than 30 second of work. Clearly this will differ across the thousands of PDs around the country, but considering the first two came across directly contradict your B.S. assertion, either put up some sort of evidence or stop making shit up to support an already invalid argument.

 

Department revenue goes into the general fund before getting given to the department. Primary funding will always ledger as "General Fund" regardless of the percentage that the department creates.

 

 

[JoshK]

 

Most PD's are primarily internally funded. While they do get external funding it is not their primary source.

 

Wrong. You flat out made this up...

 

"The Police Department budget is funded, primarily, by two funding elements; the City’s General Fund, and the Public Safety Sales Tax Initiative (Proposition 400) which was created from a voter approved initiative in 2003. In addition to these two funding elements, the department pursues other funding sources including State and Federal grants applicable to the mission of the police department."

 

-Avondale, AZ police dept, http://www.avondale.org/index.aspx?NID=503

 

"The police department is primarily funded by two sources: a permanent police mill levy and the city general fund"

 

-Pickerington, OH police dept, http://www.ci.pickerington.oh.us/sections/government/pdfs/2003/3%2030%20Police.pdf

 

Those were the first two PDs I could find an easy answer to with less than 30 second of work. Clearly this will differ across the thousands of PDs around the country, but considering the first two came across directly contradict your B.S. assertion, either put up some sort of evidence or stop making shit up to support an already invalid argument.

 

Department revenue goes into the general fund before getting given to the department. Primary funding will always ledger as "General Fund" regardless of the percentage that the department creates.

 

 

Sure it does, and you know this because...you make things up on the spot?

[Hugh Conway]

No, he uses a hammer to fit facts to his beliefs. Like JayB.

 

 

Still eagerly expecting some explanation of why a privately operated airport would be so superior. Been to alot of airports in the world, private, public, they are all much of a muchness. They all have unaccountable bureaucrats, they all charge way to fucking much.

[rob]

clearly, there is no evidence in the world that can demean the natural beauty and purity of private free-market enterprise, which is better at doing everything than anything else.

[JoshK]

I do get a good laugh trying to imagine the LAPD, NYPD, etc. trying to hand out enough speeding tickets to fund those massive departments which probably have more firepower than several small countries.

[Nitrox]

 

Most PD's are primarily internally funded. While they do get external funding it is not their primary source.

 

Wrong. You flat out made this up...

 

"The Police Department budget is funded, primarily, by two funding elements; the City’s General Fund, and the Public Safety Sales Tax Initiative (Proposition 400) which was created from a voter approved initiative in 2003. In addition to these two funding elements, the department pursues other funding sources including State and Federal grants applicable to the mission of the police department."

 

-Avondale, AZ police dept, http://www.avondale.org/index.aspx?NID=503

 

"The police department is primarily funded by two sources: a permanent police mill levy and the city general fund"

 

-Pickerington, OH police dept, http://www.ci.pickerington.oh.us/sections/government/pdfs/2003/3%2030%20Police.pdf

 

Those were the first two PDs I could find an easy answer to with less than 30 second of work. Clearly this will differ across the thousands of PDs around the country, but considering the first two came across directly contradict your B.S. assertion, either put up some sort of evidence or stop making shit up to support an already invalid argument.

 

Department revenue goes into the general fund before getting given to the department. Primary funding will always ledger as "General Fund" regardless of the percentage that the department creates.

 

 

Sure it does, and you know this because...you make things up on the spot?

 

This is pretty dumbed down so you should understand it. Feel free to call your city, county, or state for more answers.

 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Police_department_funding

 

Where do you think the revenue from PD's goes? You know, the forfeited assets, the ticket revenue, the dept contracting, etc? Do you think it just vanishes? On second thought, don't hurt yourself...the departments use it to fund their operations via the general fund. Without their own funding the general fund would allocate to other programs because there would be a larger deficit. Some municipalities even (gasp) borrow those funds which in turn causes PD's to run short of funds and lay off officers.

 

Of course they get outside funding (which I said) but its not their primary source.

 

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

LOL, The fact that you compared a ferry system with gambling/liquor (on which I pretty much agree the govt shouldn't be operating) pretty much proves your opinions are worthless. Thanks for playing.

 

Sorry but I don't see it as being essential for the government. The people of Washington shouldn't have to support a select few who choose to live in a place they can not travel to and from on their own. If the service can not sustain itself based on what passengers are charged (or island residents are taxed) then it shouldn't exist as a government program.

 

 

Well, thankfully "the people of washington", myself included, disagree with you.

 

I think you mean the people who live on the islands are thankful, I doubt many residents on the east side of the state agree with it.

 

 

People on the east side of the state have their lifestyle subsidized 7:1 by Seattle (tax revenue wise), so they can pretty much suck it, do whatever we tell them to, and like it. Splitting the state down the Cascade crest would be a huge net gain for the west side...the eastsiders would dry up and blow away economically.

 

Otherwise, they can go back to dirt roads rather than the brand new, largely unused highways we provide them.

 

Great cycling out there, though. Love those highways.

[tvashtarkatena]

You might be referring to Mexican police departments.

[Nitrox]

I do get a good laugh trying to imagine the LAPD, NYPD, etc. trying to hand out enough speeding tickets to fund those massive departments which probably have more firepower than several small countries.

 

You don't really understand how much revenue is generated from Police Departments do you?

 

Here is the VSP digging the state out of a 2.2B deficit with written tickets.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/virginia-state-police-help-with-budget-crunch/

 

 

[JoshK]

Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Then again, I'll give you a free pass, since that article is worded pretty poorly. It says "help" with a $2b+ budget shortfall. Even handing out 7000 tickets in a weekend will generate nowhere near that much money. Even if it did, that would be just great for VSP, but not for the "most" departments - local, county, state, etc - which is what you applied your statement to. But frankly all of that is aside from the point. The point is you just continue to make up new factoids to support your point of view, which is just that, your point of view, and not reality.

 

"Since 2006, a total of twenty-three ticketing blitzes have taken place, generating 120,977 traffic tickets."

 

As a fun little excercise, I'll let you figure out just how much each of those tickets would have to cost to cover the $2.2b. You can even apply all 4 years of tickets to the single year budget shortfall if you want *and* assume the department has no operating budget.

[tvashtarkatena]

Yeah, if the criminal justice system time to process tickets were free, which of course it isn't, that would reduce the that state's deficit by less than 2%

[rob]

so, first he argues that public industry is notoriously inefficient and that governmental agencies can't run anything right, but then turns around and argues that police departments are run so smoothly that they pay for themselves, AND help the states with their budget shortfalls.

 

one of these is not like the other

[tvashtarkatena]

There is a much better alternative for everyone, except the criminal justice make-work program, of course.

 

It's call marijuana.

 

 

[Nitrox]

so, first he argues that public industry is notoriously inefficient and that governmental agencies can't run anything right, but then turns around and argues that police departments are run so smoothly that they pay for themselves, AND help the states with their budget shortfalls.

 

one of these is not like the other

 

Nope, police is an essential service. No one besides you has advocated privatizing it.

 

 

[rob]

so, first he argues that public industry is notoriously inefficient and that governmental agencies can't run anything right, but then turns around and argues that police departments are run so smoothly that they pay for themselves, AND help the states with their budget shortfalls.

 

one of these is not like the other

 

Nope, police is an essential service. No one besides you has advocated privatizing it.

 

 

so is medicine

 

So, essential services can be entrusted to be run properly by the government, the same government you claim can't run anything as effectively as private industry?

Edited September 20, 2010 by rob

[tvashtarkatena]

I'd support shrinking Big Government by ignoring 911 calls from tea baggers.

[Nitrox]

Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Then again, I'll give you a free pass, since that article is worded pretty poorly. It says "help" with a $2b+ budget shortfall. Even handing out 7000 tickets in a weekend will generate nowhere near that much money. Even if it did, that would be just great for VSP, but not for the "most" departments - local, county, state, etc - which is what you applied your statement to. But frankly all of that is aside from the point. The point is you just continue to make up new factoids to support your point of view, which is just that, your point of view, and not reality.

 

"Since 2006, a total of twenty-three ticketing blitzes have taken place, generating 120,977 traffic tickets."

 

As a fun little excercise, I'll let you figure out just how much each of those tickets would have to cost to cover the $2.2b. You can even apply all 4 years of tickets to the single year budget shortfall if you want *and* assume the department has no operating budget.

 

Funny, you lecture reading comprehension but then turn around fail yourself. I never said they generated 2.2B with written tickets, just that they were "digging the state out of a 2.2b deficit with written tickets". It emphasizes the revenue generating potential of large departments that the state would call on the department in such a manner. Obviously its a single example (which you seam to like) but still the norm in states like OR and WA.