For or Against route conditions...

[Lambone]

I learned to ice climb in Montana where old school locals like to keep their prized routes a secret. Many will never offer beta, or (even worse) offer false beta in order to keep other climbers away from their coveted routes (both projects, and/or routes that haven't been done in years). My personal opinion is that this kind of attitude sucks ass...

I am definitely all for the posting of route conditions and beta on routes, new areas, approaches, access issues, etc...

Many people will argue that putting this kind of info on the web will only increase the popularity of ice climbing, and thus create crowded routes, but I don't think this is necessarily true...

I think that ice climbing has already gained popularity, and will continue to gain popularity in the future. The routes will be crowded regardless, unless people have other options to fall upon. This makes the availability of route information and conditions even more important than ever before! I think that the more knowledge climbers have about existing conditions, the more distributed they will be among all the available or "in" routes. For instance, Drury Falls is one of only two routes featured in Selected Climbs of the Cascades I, and is probably the most popular ice route in the state. Are there only two ice climbs in the Cascade Range (excluding Banks and Tieton)??? Obviously not, but people don’t know about many other routes…

My point is, once Alex finishes up his guidebook, and if climbers post conditions of routes all around the state here, I think we will see less “herding” at routes like Drury and Alpental I.

What do y’all think? Agree, disagree, don’t care, SPRAY ON cause until it gets colder there ain’t nuthin to climb anyway!

Of course this theory goes to shit in the pre-season, because everybody is going to be top roping IcyBC as soon as it’s climbable!

[Cpt.Caveman]

I learned to ice climb oops I have not learned yet.

I will post my beta. I dont think I need a washington ice book though Just post that stuff on a free website.

[Dru]

I always report conditions unless im going back there. cause I dont care if a million bumblies show up to do the route I did last week, or not!

But I have been known to report that the route I plan to do next week is "DEFINITELY NOT IN!"

[Lambone]

nice

[Lambone]

Ummm...who are you talking to caveman, would that be yourself included? I wasn't trying to come off as a hard ass, I was just trying to encourage some discusion...since some of us out here like to bullshit about something that goes into more depth than brainless one-liners.

If you are talking about erik, than I would agree, he is just another self righteous rastafarian types... Jah love brah

"In the end it all piles up to one big nothing at all" DM

[Cpt.Caveman]

Come on dude. You guys can try to moderate into intense scrutiny but that is your deal. Read your post again I will spray wherever I want. Moderate this

[Lambone]

Whatever man, I invited people to spray in response to my post - YOU read it again. If somebody else wants to move my thread to spray then fine, I don't care.

As far as I can tell, there are no ice conditions yet so fuck it...

I'll tell ya this, anytime Donna top steps name apears in a thread its outa here!

[Cpt.Caveman]

Good cuz I cant stand Donna Crotch Step.

You guys obviously work together:

dan e I agree with Lambone. Although I think spray is annoying for the most part, it may have it's place, but not here. I am sure some of you will still post 'spray' here anyway, but all non-ice conditions topics will be moved to spray or to their rightful topic.Your kind hearted ice conditions co-moderator,

Dan E.-------------------------------------------------The evil spraymeister that hates kind people. Nice people swallow!

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[Dru]

I suggest moderators change forum name to "ICE CONDITIONS AND BATTLE CAGE" roar!

[Cpt.Caveman]

I decided I will post erroneous data since these fuckhead moderaters are being such penises.

Chair Peak is in!

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[panther]

Dude the North Face face of Chair is soooooo in you can ski it. Bring your favorite GS skis for some high speed quad burners over the 75 degree slopes. My cousins, friends, nephews girlfriend told me all this so it must be true. Get out there and just do it ASAP!!!

[dbb]

I think that the hoards really only apply to top ropeable climbs and climbs under WI4. If this is actually the case then you'd only really want to keep your moderatly hard routes a secret. This is kind of pointless because you're probably on to better and bigger things.

as far as conditions go, POST EM! It's not as if Alpental ice is your secret project!

my 2c

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: dbb ]

[CascadeClimber]

Am I missing a joke here?

Lessee, Jon and Tim bust their asses to keep this site going at their own cost. Notice any ads? Me neither. That means that they are paying all the costs related to this site out of their own pockets. You like all the bells and whistles (Who's Online, etc.)? Those are not included in the UBB software; Jon and Tim make that shit work.

Now they've asked that we keep one forum free of "spray" and the response is to call them and the moderators, who have also volunteered their time, "fuckheads" and "penises"?

Again, unless I am missing some joke here, that is pretty uncool.

-Loren

[Cpt.Caveman]

No joke. I never called Tim or Jon penises. More like the recent acts of Lambone and Heil Nazi DanE. Fuck off if you dont like my spray it will surely keep coming. I think I remember buyiing Jon a brew last tuesday. Where were you? Loren you are so cool but this aint your business. Take it back to Mtncommunity.org. You can tell me how you dont like spray at the pub club I see you as arrogant by trashing on me without even knowing what you are talking about. Watch out for those stones on the Eiger. Forgot my email you are soo cool huh?

[Lambone]

I'm gunna move this thread now. Do, I feel bad about that, no. I startd the thread, and I knew it would generate some spray. I wanted to get some opinions about what people think about this forum, and it seems that no one got my point, or understood my question. Dru made me laugh, dbb came close, and erik well, we all know what erik thinks...

I figured I'd wait until Caveman started insulting people as usual, so the time has come.

You speek for yourself Caveman, so I shall keep my mouth shut. See ya - have fun.

[allthumbs]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:

You guys are coming across as self righteous and hard asses. Just chill out and when the spray comes deal with it accordingly. Otherwise Shut up!

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

---

No shit

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: trask ]

[JayB]

Lambone:

For what it's worth now that the conversation's in spray....

Crowds: They're here already, they'll probably get worse. This sucks but if you've taken up the sport within the past 10 years you are part of the trend yourself and not in any place to resent newcomers.

Ice Conditions online: just about every ice-climbing area in the state has been subject to online updates for the past few years already and every one seems to be getting by just fine. I sure appreciate it when folks take the time to post the info online, especially for climbs in RMNP with brutal approaches. It's a bit of a stretch but the fact that people have become used to information on the climbs being relatively ubiquitous may have contributed to the almost complete lack of hostility and "This is MY ice" that I've encountered out here.

In fact, there were about 25-30 people at the Mt. Lincoln ice-fall this Saturday, and area with 5-6 distinct lines right now. Despite the crowds what struck me was not how big the crowds but how cool everyone was. After a couple of trips out there in similar conditions, it seemed clear that patience and consideration are a much better, and more realistic way to cope with crowds than hostility and hoarding beta.

[JayB]

Man....gotta proof read these things before posting or stop trying to post on the fly at work..

[Lambone]

Nice JayB, thanks for adding your take on it. My partners and I are also part of the growth problem, oh well what can you do???

I gues my question stems from some of the attitude I picked up from folks in Bozeman. Mostly college punks, but also from some old schoolers(ummm... should I say it...yes, Jack Tackle). I'm not at all saying that washington folks are not friendly at climbing areas...99% of the folks I've met on both rock and ice in Wa have been super cool.(with the exception of Lil Si and 38 )

But some people, like erik (and I respect his opinion) think TR's are bogus. My take is, if you don't want to lose the adventure in your climb, don't read the TR. But I'm kinda short on spare time for climbing these days, so I'd like to know where the gettin is good...

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Lambone ]

[dan_e]

I agree with Lambone. Although I think spray is annoying for the most part, it may have it's place, but not here. I am sure some of you will still post 'spray' here anyway, but all non-ice conditions topics will be moved to spray or to their rightful topic.

Your kind hearted ice conditions co-moderator,

Dan E.

[erik]

i am against people publishing their findings. cause like you said it brings all the yo's out to play where they don't belong. i work hard at the office and trying to find ice that my friends and i can climb.

the higher the adventure quotient the better. you won't find me drawing peeps with poor gumption a road map to the goods.

and i am sketchy anyways, so who really knows!?!?!?!?!?

[Cpt.Caveman]

You guys are coming across as self righteous and hard asses. Just chill out and when the spray comes deal with it accordingly. Otherwise Shut up!

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Cpt.Caveman ]

[AlpineK]

I know a number of people that think that any form of TR is chest beating. I think it can be nice to have info out there for people to take advantage of. Especially when it comes to info on an ephemeral medium like ice or snow.

Crowds are going to occure on routes that are moderate in difficulty, easy to aproach, and have a lot of stars in the guide book. If you work hard and are willing to go explore you can still have a nice crowd free experience.

Also I think lying about a route to someone is bullshit. If you want to keep it to yourself don't tell anyone.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I'll be the one bullshitting. Hey North Face of Chair is in yo. So is the fall near Denny Creek.

[Dru]

I've never run into a crowd when doing a first ascent. Ok except on Kanaka Kolumn (hee hee), and up at Athelstan the last time but they were not on my route.

I know where lots of hidden unclimbed ice is.If you want directions send me a PM (hint : the reply will be : head to downtown Surrey, go to the mall, find the outdoor fountain, look on the pond )

No crowds!